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Hello all,

Following on from the identification of this van, http://www.railphoto...g=0720023749000 pictured at King's Lynn, as a steam heating van I would like to build one for my layout (oo gauge King's Lynn 1980s).

Further research has thrown up (amongst others) this photograph http://www.departmen.../photo/321073-3 of the same or a similar van at Cambridge.

Does anyone know whether these were built for purpose or converted from other rolling stock and if so what?

My first though was BR Mk I horse boxes but these appear to be shorter overall with less overhang of the wheels at the ends.

I would be very grateful for any information that you can provide.

Regards

Mark

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I'm going to hazard a guess that these ones were diagramed and built as heating vans - looking at the design of them - but I do remember seeing one or two of the CONVERSIONS from the Mk1 Horse Boxes.

The main difference that I can see between the ones you have linked to, and the Mk1 ones is that the Mk1s have a curved bodyside-

http://www.nrm.org.uk/OurCollection/LocomotivesAndRollingStock/CollectionItem.aspx?objid=1988-7013&pageNo=3 at the NRM

http://www.brc-stockbook.co.uk/Horse.htm - At Quainton Road

http://www.google.co.uk/imgres?q=%22railway+Horseboxes%22&start=86&hl=en&safe=off&sa=X&gbv=2&biw=1366&bih=673&tbm=isch&tbnid=ZIoIFYcH-sAQWM:&imgrefurl=http://www.rmweb.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php%3Ff%3D4%26t%3D8629&docid=Ysr7YHAp8fwZfM&imgurl=http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z205/lamdelz/vlcsnap-169994.png&w=768&h=576&ei=a9doT_7JC8TTtAbd1PjcBw&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=542&sig=116915589080956320742&page=5&tbnh=128&tbnw=171&ndsp=31&ved=1t:429,r:2,s:86&tx=50&ty=26

 

 

I'm not claiming that my answer is even 50% accurate, but I hope that it helps a bit.

And best wishes with your layout :good:

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Pretty sure I read recently they were indeed ex Mk1 horseboxes.

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Hello all,

Following on from the identification of this van, http://www.railphoto...g=0720023749000 pictured at King's Lynn, as a steam heating van I would like to build one for my layout (oo gauge King's Lynn 1980s).

Further research has thrown up (amongst others) this photograph http://www.departmen.../photo/321073-3 of the same or a similar van at Cambridge.

Does anyone know whether these were built for purpose or converted from other rolling stock and if so what?

My first though was BR Mk I horse boxes but these appear to be shorter overall with less overhang of the wheels at the ends.

I would be very grateful for any information that you can provide.

Regards

Mark

 

I lived at Cambridge and saw things first hand. When the steam locos were ousted, train heating was by the boilers fitted within diesel locos. As these were not coupled up until needed for service, they kept a handful of B1 locos to act as semi-mobile train heating boilers, coincedentally the new Model Rail has an article on these. They didn't last too long before the vans arrived. The ones we had at Cambridge were new build though I've heard rumours that some horseboxes were converted, never seen evidence though. Timescale would be about 1962-1963/4 for the B1's, giving way then to the vans; electric train heating of course made them redundant. The horseboxes had the same profile as Mk1 coaches (curved) whilst the vans were flat sided.

 

Edit - just seen the above post from Paul saying they were conversions on old underframes, I stand corrected on the "new-build" but in pedant mode!

 

Stewart

Edited by stewartingram
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Many thanks for all of your responses.

I will have to do some more checking but it looks as though an LNER 20T plate wagon kit may be a suitable starting point for this project.

 

Mark

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I remember seeing one in use at Norwich when leaving the station very early on a school trip - probably 1975. ISTR the amber warning lights flashing on it which I presume meant it was in use.

 

Don't know when they ceased to be used. I certainly never saw one in use after becoming interested in the modern scene in 1977. By that time Norwich and Yarmouth were using Class 31/0's which had been transferred to departmental use after being withdrawn. They lasted until the early 80's and the introduction of aircon stock.

 

STEVE

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Does anybody know how these were used at King's Lynn?

Were they shunted onto and off the London end of the train or was the empty rake shunted onto the pre heating van that sat against the buffers?

I assume that they were used for the first train or two each morning that had sat overnight / over the weekend.

Thanks once again for the input received so far.

Mark

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Does anybody know how these were used at King's Lynn?

Were they shunted onto and off the London end of the train or was the empty rake shunted onto the pre heating van that sat against the buffers?

I assume that they were used for the first train or two each morning that had sat overnight / over the weekend.

Thanks once again for the input received so far.

Mark

 

The one I saw in use at Norwich was on the front of the rake - ie, the London end of the platforms

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The one I saw in use at Norwich was on the front of the rake - ie, the London end of the platforms

 

Thanks Steve,

Moving the pre-heating van on to and off the rake will add a little shunting variety to the passenger operations.

 

Mark

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I have a vague memory of the (slab sided) heating van being against the stops in the middle road during the early to mid 80's. I also seem to recall it sitting in the first road of the goods yard near the carpark.

 

It seems a long time ago now mind!

 

Andy G

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All the horse box conversions were mainly the ones used by the M&EE department as instructional vehicles for training maintenance staff and drivers on the various types of "steam generators". The pre heat vans more often than not, had two Spanner Mk1 boilers in them.

 

Al Taylor

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On 21/03/2012 at 13:07, D1059 said:

I remember seeing one in use at Norwich when leaving the station very early on a school trip - probably 1975. ISTR the amber warning lights flashing on it which I presume meant it was in use.

 

Don't know when they ceased to be used. I certainly never saw one in use after becoming interested in the modern scene in 1977. By that time Norwich and Yarmouth were using Class 31/0's which had been transferred to departmental use after being withdrawn. They lasted until the early 80's and the introduction of aircon stock.

 

STEVE

 

Did the ex 31/0 keep working boilers?  I thought they were just ETH

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40 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

Polmadie 1984

 

Polmadie

 

  Two steam pipes?

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7 minutes ago, russ p said:

  Two steam pipes?

 

Isn't the steam pipe the curly one on the left?

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15 minutes ago, montyburns56 said:

 

Isn't the steam pipe the curly one on the left?

Def two steam pipes, the curly one is the vac bag. 
 

Andi

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If they contained two steam generators, could it be which pipe is used depends on which generator is operating?

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12 minutes ago, Taigatrommel said:

If they contained two steam generators, could it be which pipe is used depends on which generator is operating?

 

There are two water filler pipes also which might make this a good idea.

 

Mike.

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21 hours ago, Dagworth said:

Def two steam pipes, the curly one is the vac bag. 
 

Andi

The Western (and that vehicle is of course ex WR, previously allocated to Plymouth) used some boiler vans to heat (or try to keep warm) two trains simultaneously via various extension pipework.  The converted Syphons might well have had two boilers but the illustrated van looks too small to have room for two and in any event it might well have been used for instructional purposes. 

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Don't forget the early conversion bogie vehicles that were still around in the 80's, although probably not in full working order.

 

Mike.

 

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1 hour ago, Enterprisingwestern said:


Don't forget the early conversion bogie vehicles that were still around in the 80's, although probably not in full working order.

 

Mike.

 

 

When did these fall out of use?  I've only ever seen pictures if them on the early west coast electric lines did they get used for pre heating after this.  Last time I came across one was on the NYMR in the early 90s

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3 hours ago, russ p said:

 

When did these fall out of use?  I've only ever seen pictures if them on the early west coast electric lines did they get used for pre heating after this.  Last time I came across one was on the NYMR in the early 90s

 

I remember there were two at St. Pancras in use in the late 1970s, seemed to have been converted from some old Stanier Full Brakes, and I think they were painted in plain rail blue at this time. During the Steam Heat period one was on the stops of Siding 8 between platforms 4 & 5, and the other was on the stops of either Siding A or B between platforms 2 and 3. I remember seeing them in action on a Sunday morning after finishing night shift. There would be a plume of steam going up into the roof showing they were running. They would disappear during the Summer, which may have been for their annual check ?

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19 hours ago, anroar53 said:

 

I remember there were two at St. Pancras in use in the late 1970s, seemed to have been converted from some old Stanier Full Brakes, and I think they were painted in plain rail blue at this time. During the Steam Heat period one was on the stops of Siding 8 between platforms 4 & 5, and the other was on the stops of either Siding A or B between platforms 2 and 3. I remember seeing them in action on a Sunday morning after finishing night shift. There would be a plume of steam going up into the roof showing they were running. They would disappear during the Summer, which may have been for their annual check ?

 

There were a number of these converted in 1960. It is difficult to get much information. The http://departmentals.com

only mentions 44403 and 44407 (which seems to have survived until at least 1987) I saw it at Dewsnap in 1981 when it appeared damaged so interesting it had years more to live, https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsdepartmentalcoach/e7faf89d5

 

The other source is http://lmsca.org.uk/lms-coaches/br-departmental-coach-list/

but their list, although longer doesn't appear complete and neither source includes 44413 which I also recorded at Dewsnap https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/lmsdepartmentalcoach/e7cd33f31

 

I must admit I used to pass through St. Pancras irregularly through the later 1970s and never noticed the heating vans :sad_mini:

 

Paul

 

 

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Posted (edited)

in the late 1980s I  recall seeing a few of the steam heat vans  in Lincolnshire, either Frodingham or immingham depot

 

I think this is the  type of steam heat van I recall at the depot in tje late 1980s

 

image.png.57beda5b9a2f44522c65edf41629b261.png

Edited by Pandora
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