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Hello all,

As I've spent quite a while modelling US railroads, I've kind of neglected my UK P4 modelling, but with this challenge, its given me the shove I needed to get on with some of my projects that I have a long list of!

 

This subject is something I've been meaning to do ever since Heljan brought out their huge 4 axle Cargowaggon model. I like the smaller 2 axle version or Hbfis IVA ferryvan. seen here, courtesy of Chris aka eastwestdivide ( His image and copyright )

 

post-683-0-68828400-1332369257_thumb.jpg

 

Although this is the FORD version, I'll be recreating the Cargowaggon version as can be found in the following links:

 

http://paulbartlett....7c196#h270f71b8

 

http://gingespotting...73279&k=77rqWGD

 

http://www.garethbay...album=304&pos=3

 

I'll be going for the newer cleaner look as I'm setting the date of the wagon in the period 1986-88, to fit in with my modelling era.

 

There are going to be a few items that will be bought in and these at the moment stand at

 

Rectangular Oleo buffers (genesis kits unless anyone else knows of any other retailer that sells them?)

Couplings - screwlinks (bits box)

P4 spring units (Bill Bedford)

Axlebox and springs (???)

Etched ferry tie loops (51L)

 

Well I hope to get started in the next few days.

 

Dave

Edited by dave_long
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Hello all,

As I've spent quite a while modelling US railroads, I've kind of neglected my UK P4 modelling, but with this challenge, its given me the shove I needed to get on with some of my projects that I have a long list of!

 

This subject is something I've been meaning to do ever since Heljan brought out their huge 4 axle Cargowaggon model. I like the smaller 2 axle version or Hbfis IVA ferryvan. seen here, courtesy of Chris aka eastwestdivide ( His image and copyright )

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_03_2012/post-683-0-68828400-1332369257.jpg

 

Although this is the FORD version, I'll be recreating the Cargowaggon version as can be found in the following links:

 

http://paulbartlett....7c196#h270f71b8

 

http://gingespotting...73279&k=77rqWGD

 

http://www.garethbay...album=304&pos=3

 

I'll be going for the newer cleaner look as I'm setting the date of the wagon in the period 1986-88, to fit in with my modelling era.

 

There are going to be a few items that will be bought in and these at the moment stand at

 

Rectangular Oleo buffers (genesis kits unless anyone else knows of any other retailer that sells them?)

Couplings - screwlinks (bits box)

P4 spring units (Bill Bedford)

Axlebox and springs (???)

Etched ferry tie loops (51L)

 

Well I hope to get started in the next few days.

 

Dave

The buffers are the 'Ringfelder' type, where the outer part of the stock (the bit attached to the head) slides over the inner part, I believe. Inter-city Models supply these; if he hasn't got any, I may have a spare set or two, as Heljan and Dapol issued their various 'German' ferry-wagons before I'd got round to building further examples.

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Nice to see someone building a continental wagon. In general I think they get badly overlooked, there were a lot moving about Britain during the Speedlink era.

 

Watch for the Continental screw coupling http://PaulBartlett....anvan/e2f57c196

 

Paul Bartlett

The 4-wheel single and twin wagons are still common on the UK network- I generally see half-a-dozen or more trains of them a week crossing via the Channel Tunnel. Curiously, their bogie equivalents seem to have disappeared from traffic to and from the UK; do any still work within the UK itself (I have an idea I saw some at Trostre last year)?

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In case you aren't aware of it, Dave, there's a rather useful data sheet on these wagons here:

http://www.gerailservices.com/fileadmin/user_upload/specs/vans/GE114CTHbfins.pdf

 

You may struggle to obtain the axleboxes and springs, I can't think of anyone that does them off the top of my head, but they may be available from somewhere. If you can't find them, drop me a line, I may be able to help.

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The 4-wheel single and twin wagons are still common on the UK network- I generally see half-a-dozen or more trains of them a week crossing via the Channel Tunnel. Curiously, their bogie equivalents seem to have disappeared from traffic to and from the UK; do any still work within the UK itself (I have an idea I saw some at Trostre last year)?

In 2009 there were an awful lot of the VTG F3 vans in Long Marston, but they'd gone in 2010, I'm not sure where - I guess they could have been shipped to Europe for use over there. Some of the twins were in use on a regular flow to/from Italy, so that might explain their regular appearance at the Channel Tunnel.

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Curiously, their bogie equivalents seem to have disappeared from traffic to and from the UK; do any still work within the UK itself (I have an idea I saw some at Trostre last year)?

 

On the bogie ones there's UK reg ex Tiphook ones in use between Trostre and Tilbury? on tinplate traffic - the occasional one shows up on Cornish clay workings too, but there's not much out there....

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Brian

 

Sorry, I probably wasn't being clear enough. My comment was more general, in that there were many continental registered wagons operating in Britain in the 1980s, and they tend to get overlooked by modellers. A good proportion of the entire non mineral carrying fleet were RIV registered. I have posted quite a lot of collections http://paulbartlett....com/ferrywagons but there are more to do.

 

It is a great pity that so many of the really interesting tank wagons had to stop running when your tunnel opened, including some which were recently constructed. Just look at the DB registered examples http://paulbartlett....germanbogietank http://paulbartlett....om/ferryvtgtank

 

Apologies to OP, going a bit off topic.

 

Paul Bartlett

Edited by hmrspaul
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The buffers are the 'Ringfelder' type, where the outer part of the stock (the bit attached to the head) slides over the inner part, I believe. Inter-city Models supply these; if he hasn't got any, I may have a spare set or two, as Heljan and Dapol issued their various 'German' ferry-wagons before I'd got round to building further examples.

 

Thanks for the name of the buffers, I had planned on using these as supplied by Genesis, ( I thought them suitable as they use them with their cargowaggon flats ) seen here : http://pluto.servers.rbl-mer.misp.co.uk/~torqueoc/genesiskits.co.uk/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=14&category_id=13&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=3 do you think these are correct? I know the chap at Intercity hasn't been that well, so if these are incorrect then I'd be very happy if you have a spare set of buffers.

 

Nice to see someone building a continental wagon. In general I think they get badly overlooked, there were a lot moving about Britain during the Speedlink era.

 

Watch for the Continental screw coupling http://PaulBartlett....anvan/e2f57c196

 

Paul Bartlett

 

Thanks Paul, I think it was your photos of these on your old photopic site that set me wanting to build a few of these. One of your photos that intrigues me though is the last photo in your collection, the one without any ribs on the doors, its the only image I've ever seen of them (it) do you have anymore info on them/it? http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/germanvan/e3033ee93#h3033ee93

 

Thanks for the tip on the couplings I'll look into that, I might be able to modify something.

 

The 4-wheel single and twin wagons are still common on the UK network- I generally see half-a-dozen or more trains of them a week crossing via the Channel Tunnel. Curiously, their bogie equivalents seem to have disappeared from traffic to and from the UK; do any still work within the UK itself (I have an idea I saw some at Trostre last year)?

 

Does anyone know if there's much difference between the single IVAs compared to the semi permanently coupled twin IZAs? As these could be worth modelling if the IVA turns out ok!

 

In case you aren't aware of it, Dave, there's a rather useful data sheet on these wagons here:

http://www.gerailser...114CTHbfins.pdf

 

You may struggle to obtain the axleboxes and springs, I can't think of anyone that does them off the top of my head, but they may be available from somewhere. If you can't find them, drop me a line, I may be able to help.

 

Thanks Pugsley, I've found this pdf http://www.freighteurope.co.uk/ENG/documents/Hbfis_eng.pdf but that one is useful thanks for posting it. I've been looking through some of the 51L range to see if they had anything suitable, I'm sure I've seen something similar but whether its close enough is a different matter. I'll bear your offer in mind (3d printing perhaps?)

 

Thanks all for the help.

I was hoping to get the interior shell done today but my supply of 80 thou card turned out to be 60 and 40 thou, so I'll have to wait a few days, but it gives me chance to look into the other details and find some decent images to get some decals done. Thats going to be a big job, not just the Cargowaggon logo, but there are a lot of data panels on them.

 

Dave

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Oooh, I was thinking along much the same lines, except perhaps having another go at a 'holdall' bogie van, or perhaps even one of the BREL Danzas bogie vans...

 

Jon

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Does anyone know if there's much difference between the single IVAs compared to the semi permanently coupled twin IZAs? As these could be worth modelling if the IVA turns out ok!

Not a massive difference, I think it's mostly in the underframes, but I haven't looked too closely at the single wagons, it's the twins I've got my eye on for a future project. I might have to throw my hat in the ring with the twins, you can't have too many ferry vans :)

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Looks like a good project, i don't know if they're the same but s-kits do a buffer suitable for some european stock, called reverse-pattern continental, which may be suitable, i've had them off shawplan in the past.

chris

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The ones in the photo look like 'normal' buffers- Ringfelders are fatter at the end nearest the head. Drop me a PM with your address, Dave.

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I'm pretty sure that a half of a twin (IZA) is a lot shorter than a single (IVA), if you count the panels there are 6 on the doors of the IVA, but only 5 on the IZA - and you've an inner end which is funky with half-buffers and chains and so on - the similar styled ones also have a fishbelly frame and not fabricated.

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Thanks Paul, I think it was your photos of these on your old photopic site that set me wanting to build a few of these. One of your photos that intrigues me though is the last photo in your collection, the one without any ribs on the doors, its the only image I've ever seen of them (it) do you have anymore info on them/it? http://paulbartlett....3ee93#h3033ee93

 

Dave

 

I believe it is the prototype and therefore constructed differently.

 

Paul Bartlett

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I believe it is the prototype and therefore constructed differently.

 

Paul Bartlett

The doors are constructed of aluminium 'planks' (really, U-shaped channel), welded together; the simplest way of building a sturdy prototype to prove the concept, test conformity with the loading gauge, etc. The ridged parts of the doors on the production wagons are rolled or pressed as one piece; a technique which only becomes viable when constructing a fairly large batch. Similar differences can be seen between the prototype and production 'Holdall' Cargowaggons and FS bogie ferryvans.

Jon mentioned the idea of building one of the Danzas bogie vans; I believe the door panels of these were very similar, if not identical, to those of the VGA van which came out of Shildon at about the same time..

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Thanks for the info on the prototypes guys. I quite like the look of the prototype so may end trying that too. I think for my own piece of mind that when I start cutting styrene for this I might cut two sets and build 2 side by side, but I wouldn't expect to see 2 at the challenge end date.

 

Well without materials, ( although I looked in hobbycraft this morning but I couldn't be persauded to pay £7 for a sheet of 2mm Evergreen styrene! ) I've been looking into creating the decals instead.

 

Thanks to Pugsley's blog posting from last year I thought I'd have a look through the links for Fonts ( Pugsleys thread is here : http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php/blog/8/entry-5591-just-transferring-you-now/ ) the Whats the Font website is a fantastic piece of kit, I've managed to find a number of the texts used on these, although some of the close ups I have are for the latter versions while under GE ownership, but I'll keep looking. A lot of the text is from German DIN 1451 fonts family, some I can get free but 1 or 2 seem to be payware! Although there are some free alternates I might look at, but a lot come with continental 0's !! aah!

 

Still undecided whether to print them myself at home, use the works laser printers, or get someone to print my artwork. Pugsley any update from that blog on what you've done since...

 

Atleast I don't need anything major printing in white!

 

regards

 

Dave

Edited by dave_long

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Try this one:

http://www.fontyukle.net/en/1,din+1451

 

I think it's the one I've got, which has standard zeros.

 

For printing your transfers, I'd use the works laser printers personally, it's so much easier than trying to print on inkjets.I don't think I've done much since that blog posting, but have done all of the transfers for my tank wagons projects using a laser printer.

 

HTH

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Thanks,

Anything to watch out for with printing, as work lease the laser printers. They're bottom feed and don't have all that many options in the settings pages.

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I presume they're colour ones? I don't think there are too many pitfalls, I've had no problems so far - the hardest part is often working out which way round to put the paper in :D

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Thanks Pugs, yeah normal colour laser printers, (Brother I think) Just didnt want to gum up a lease printer. I'll try it on a night shift.

 

I thing I've managed to find the Cargowaggon text. Attached is a prelim image of the logo itself, the colours haven't been matched or the spacing sorted. But I thought I'd post it to see if everyone else thinks it looks like the right font.

 

post-683-0-44239900-1332593784.png

 

Surprisingly with the whatsmyfont site, it seemed to prefer looking at the logo from almost a 3/4 view rather than front on. Font used here is 'Eurostile extended' (bold & italics added) It was rushed together in a paint program, as my Inkscape is on my desktop and this was done on the laptop so the text isnt as smooth as it should be.

 

Dave

 

Edit quick link to proto photo http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/germanvan/e3033ee93#h39fd0ebf

Edited by dave_long
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That looks pretty much spot on to me - any chance you could let me have a copy of it, please? I can't seem to find a version of it that will let me set it to italic in CorelDraw.

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Thanks Dave, I'll give that a go. Also, thanks for your inspiration, as I've decided to enter the contest with the twin sets, but in S7!

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Thanks Dave, I'll give that a go. Also, thanks for your inspiration, as I've decided to enter the contest with the twin sets, but in S7!

 

No probs, that sounds good. The twins will look great in 7mm!

 

Going back to the 1451 fonts you linked too, they are the right family, but I think the numbers on the wagons are narrower than the standard. Thats why I think the correct version is $30, although I haven't tried the alternative yet. However if you've got the time and patience you can manually resize the standard 1451s and like you said in that blog post you spend all this effort getting the text right and when its done you can barely read it!, mind you in 7mm you will be able to read it.

 

good luck

 

Dave

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