PeteB Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 ...Will Dapol listen to the retailers now..... For that to have any chance of happening, the retailers first have to give feedback to Dapol. I spoke to Gaugemaster yesterday about my pre-order for the Pullman 73, and I was told that Gaugemaster was not aware of any problems with any of the Dapol class 73's !! Is that really possible? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tetsudofan Posted January 8, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2016 For that to have any chance of happening, the retailers first have to give feedback to Dapol. I spoke to Gaugemaster yesterday about my pre-order for the Pullman 73, and I was told that Gaugemaster was not aware of any problems with any of the Dapol class 73's !! Is that really possible? Maybe we got too many ostriches about...... Keith Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeharvey22 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 (edited) Perhaps we should sent this to the factory in China? Now, looking at those colour eyetest charts, the Chinese read from right to left don't they? It might not just be whether they can see colours. Edited January 8, 2016 by mikeharvey22 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanspareil Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I mailed GM on the 73 and its general issues prior to my purchase and (to their credit at least replied) they said they were only aware of the lighting DCC issue! I replied with all the other issues known. I got no further reply though. Either head in sand or maybe they have been lucky and not seen many returns which would surprise for such a big retailer. I did warn them if I am not happy that I will be returning mine. I doubt they will bother to inspect each loco before shipping for major issues, and to be fair they shouldn't have to. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 8, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 8, 2016 I will have both my green and Roysl Alex 73s with me to run on Star Lane at the Guildofrd Astolat clubs show on Saturday 16th January. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOING-LOCO Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I mailed GM on the 73 and its general issues prior to my purchase and (to their credit at least replied) they said they were only aware of the lighting DCC issue! I replied with all the other issues known. I got no further reply though. Either head in sand or maybe they have been lucky and not seen many returns which would surprise for such a big retailer. I did warn them if I am not happy that I will be returning mine. I doubt they will bother to inspect each loco before shipping for major issues, and to be fair they shouldn't have to. Hi when did you E-mail them as i spoke to them today at 10am about all the issues and was given a return code. i do not like to bash any company especially British but it seems to me that having products built the other side of the world is not working out to well. Surely with the amount of mistakes that are made it would be better to start making products back in the UK. Things could be put right without much delay and the company would have full control over its products. Just a thought. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanspareil Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I mailed then before Xmas on my concerns and to hopefully make them aware if not so already (although I am very sure they must have been aware despite their comments). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mevaman Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I agree about the colour. I had not coupled my Royal Alex to my Hornby VSOE Pullman coaches until today. I will keep the loco but cannot help being disappointed with the livery errors. It should be so simple to get liveries right - it will require effort but, as it is fundamental to the look of loco, this effort is worthwhile. Dapol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mevaman Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 I meant to add to the above post. Dapol will have had a negative impact upon sales and reputation as a result. Andrew Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shanks522 Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Although not perfect i'm sure i can live with it. Might need someone to respray 7 pullmans though! Graham. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisB Posted January 8, 2016 Share Posted January 8, 2016 Surely with the amount of mistakes that are made it would be better to start making products back in the UK. Things could be put right without much delay and the company would have full control over its products. Just a thought. Fine if you want to pay £200 or more for a loco. Despite recent price hikes, the reason so much is made over there is because it's cheaper. The Chinese are perfectly capable of producing any colour you like. Somebody in the UK signed off on these to say they were okay and to go ahead with production. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HullCityB17 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I wonder what happens/what is the legal situation with returned locos? Those with faults (whether the retailer agrees with the buyer or not) I guess will go back to Dapol, but what about all those that are just dissatisfied with livery type issues or just return under distance selling regulations with almost no reason? I thought after the Dixons incident some years ago they can't just be put back on the shelf can they (although I bet it still happens!)? My Royal Alex is due next week, I am still a little nervous (far more nervous than I should be at spending £130), I should almost be buying a BMW/Mercedes Benz of models at this price not concerned I am going to get one with wonky buffers etc. I have not read up on the SLW class 24's but weren't these supposed to the Gold standard Rolls Royce of models, with masses more detail than this 73 and no errors etc for not a lot more than the 73's for an analogue version? If the 24 is pretty much perfect (I assume the 24 is Chinese made) then China can do perfection (with proper supplier management)? If a product is faulty then you have a right to return that product, but it could be a grey area to return an item due to the colours not being correct, although you could ask to exchange it, but it would have to be returned to the shop it was bought from and not the manufacturer which I think has been mentioned before. See Martin Lewis website for more info. as the laws have changed with regards to the sale of goods etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium amwells Posted January 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2016 Although not perfect i'm sure i can live with it. 73101 pullman livery.jpg Might need someone to respray 7 pullmans though! 73101 with pullman.jpg Graham. Now that looks disappointing. Here's the choice though - go ahead with my pre order on the basis that it will be the only time that BEA is made, or cancel, be happy with my Lima version, and hope that a re-run, with corrected colours is done. I was so looking forward to these 73s fir their overall improvement in detail and running qualities (despite the possible cost of replacing my Lima versions). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Is there general concensus that the umber of the Hornby Pullmans is correct? Looking at photographs of 73101 available on the net the Dapol/Gaugemaster lighter umber looks more representative to my eye. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I was under the impression that Hornby's umber was a little dark. There was comment some time back that Bachmann's umber on their mark 1 Pullmans was much lighter than Hornby's umber, thus making the use of Hornby brakes on Bachmann mark 1 rakes less convincing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Is there general concensus that the umber of the Hornby Pullmans is correct? Looking at photographs of 73101 available on the net the Dapol/Gaugemaster lighter umber looks more representative to my eye. I'd agree with that. Type 73101 into Google Images and in around 75% of pictures, the Dapol colour looks correct and it's the Hornby colour that looks far too dark. Yes, I know... cue all the arguments about bright sunlight, shadow etc etc... Take a look at this image of 73101 in particular: http://www.hondawanderer.com/73101_Salfords_1991.htm 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Todd Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) http://www.gaugemaster.com/item_details.asp?code=DAGM100 Regards to the above and those members who have received it. 1. Are the "blacked wheels", made from Brass ? 2. Do you have,running issues running on dcc/decoder or lighting issues ? 3. Is it an attractive livery ? 4. Are your buffers,"sprung", are they horizontal ? 5. Have you had to replace the NEM coupling,with a Hornby one/crop the lower part of the hook ? 6. What does,the bag of accessories contain ? I am not a purist, but,at £130. I may well pass and not play Russian Roulette . Edited January 9, 2016 by David Todd Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold cambo74 Posted January 9, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Had a quick hour or so to right a couple of wrongs on the Dapol 73 - resprayed the exec light grey to the correct shade on 102 .... Also renumbered large logo 105 to 129 city of Winchester and added plates and crests ..... Certainly helps the models in my humble opinion ...... Ben Edited January 9, 2016 by cambo74 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickL2008 Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Only thing that bothers me about these models is the lack of T airiels, otherwise they look good, apart from the following t in the headcode Box being wrong NL Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I'd agree with that. Type 73101 into Google Images and in around 75% of pictures, the Dapol colour looks correct and it's the Hornby colour that looks far too dark. Yes, I know... cue all the arguments about bright sunlight, shadow etc etc... Take a look at this image of 73101 in particular: http://www.hondawanderer.com/73101_Salfords_1991.htm Pete, That was the photograph that made me think the Dapol brown was right. To me the Pullmans look darker brown too, but that might just be me. Cheers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gwiwer Posted January 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2016 When we question which shade (for example of Pullman umber) is right or wrong we should also factor in the actual date of the prototype, its run time since last repaint / varnish and the changes over time, however subtle, to the real thing. Also let us remember that colour photographs can render the actual colour as seen by the eye differently in print, through the reproduction process itself and through degradation of an original. I don't seek to justify nor specifically to reject Dapol's chosen shades here. Merely to say "It's wrong" belies a multitude of variables. That said the images I'm seeing of the Dapol / Gaugemaster versions appear to show a lighter brown similar in shade to that used by the VSOE / British Pullman stock currently. That in turn is lighter than I remember those cars when they ran in the Brighton and Bournemouth Belles and is lighter than I remember the Golden Arrow Pullmans being. In turn those cars might have been some years out of the paint shop when I last saw them and have gathered a little grime and fading. Along with other SR stock the periodic revarnishing at minor overhauls often darkened the appearance of the actual painted livery. So if you were to run 73101 as modelled alongside contemporary Pullman cars of that time you might indeed want to have the cars repainted in a lighter shade of umber which would be nearer the middle of the brown range. 73101 wasn't in Pullman colours and indeed wasn't even built when those same Pullman cars were seen by the young Gwiwer in a very much darker shade which I would describe as Umber. 73101 was not, and the existing British Pullman cars and their associated Mk1-derived support / staff coaches are not in the same shade at all. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2016 If a product is faulty then you have a right to return that product, but it could be a grey area to return an item due to the colours not being correct, although you could ask to exchange it, but it would have to be returned to the shop it was bought from and not the manufacturer which I think has been mentioned before. See Martin Lewis website for more info. as the laws have changed with regards to the sale of goods etc. It depends if it is classed as a manufacturing defect or not. The application of what you believe is an incorrect shade of brown on every model is not a 'defect' - its a design issue and as I understand it in such cases consumer law technically only provides for the ability to change your mind about the and return with you being liable for the return postage. If on the other hand the lining was not square because the body had not been correctly inserted into the Tampo printing tool, then that is classed a manufacturing defect and as with all defective items you have the right to return it to swap for another example or a refund with the seller refunding the postage costs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Pete, That was the photograph that made me think the Dapol brown was right. To me the Pullmans look darker brown too, but that might just be me. Cheers. Buying a new loco (excluding "factory-weathered") the finish has to be assumed as "pristine". The real-life equivalent to this would be "ex-works" as seen in the prototype shot of 73101 (above). Even just a few days into service, a locomotive's colour could appear a little dulled/darkened/faded etc etc. Now I know the Pullman 73s were looked after, but I'd venture that the only true comparison with the Gaugemaster version is an ex-works loco. Also, as Gwiwer points out, Pullman carriages have been around a lot longer than a Class 73 painted into Pullman colours, so I don't think a comparison with historic Pullman colours is valid. Of all of the Dapol 73 releases so far, I think I'd be happy with this one (other problems aside). 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2016 73101 in May 2013. Nice and faded. Cheers, Mick 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium John M Upton Posted January 9, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 9, 2016 ...and black backed nameplates too! The Brighton Evening Argus ones were never anything other than brown on the Pullman livery which makes the black backed etched ones supplied very wrong. They weren't even black when 73101 was in BR Blue, they were red so still not right... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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