RMweb Premium newbryford Posted January 22, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 22, 2016 Hi again thanks for the help. I will try making better pickups just hope i dont break it. Sorry if this is a stupid question but whats the difference between running in a model on dc and dcc? By running it on DC, you can guarantee that there aren't any problems that have been caused by decoder installation. Cheers, Mick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 People have longed asked for models to be released in a specific form and this seems to a perfect example of one that should be available in unpainted CTK form Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted January 22, 2016 Share Posted January 22, 2016 All we wanted was the right colour and to actually run well... We have weathering, complete re-paints, re-wiring jobs, re-glueing jobs.......... If Dapol just gave us a box of bits, we could put it together..... Why are we making excuses? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47606odin Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) All we wanted was the right colour and to actually run well... We have weathering, complete re-paints, re-wiring jobs, re-glueing jobs.......... If Dapol just gave us a box of bits, we could put it together..... Why are we making excuses? i had a couple of replies from Joel (director) at Dapol on Facebook, and he said there have been minimal returns and generally the loco's have been received favourably, therefore i shall come to the conclusion that 'normal modellers' don't mind, he has taken on board what i have said regarding livery shades, detail specifics for certain locos i.e. exhaust cover not fitted on 73/0 locos, so i can assume we are not not normal modellers on here so must be the elite or something and are being too picky. Joel still suggest any issue with our 73's should be reported to them via their contact on the website, and perhaps now they will get replied to. good luck, and heres to better paint colours in the future Edited January 23, 2016 by 47606odin 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 i had a couple of replies from Joel (director) at Dapol on Facebook, and he said there have been minimal returns and generally the loco's have been received favourably, therefore i shall come to the conclusion that 'normal modellers' don't mind, he has taken on board what i have said regarding livery shades, detail specifics for certain locos i.e. exhaust cover not fitted on 73/0 locos, so i can assume we are not not normal modellers on here so must be the elite or something and are being too picky. Sadly what I suspected earlier in the thread. I don't know what percentage of UK OO gauge modellers participate in forums, but I'd bet the figure is less than we'd imagine. I certainly do think we're in a minority. Are we picky? Yes, but in this case I think rightly so. Dapol won't rush to correct a problem if they don't think there is a problem. If, as 47606odin says (above), Dapol are under the impression that most purchasers are happy with it, then the paint issues will stay. Get used to the lemony yellow and the purpley blue. The one issue they have owned up to is the PCB/decoder problem. That will get fixed. As much as I'd like to think Dapol are rushing out a second batch with better colours, bits that don't fall off and buffers that point in the right direction, I won't hold my breath. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2016 I have emailed Joel directly regarding the oval buffers falling out but no reply as yet. It's only been a few days so will wait a few more to see if for once I get a reply to this issue otherwise I will have to source replacement buffers myself.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
letterspider Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Sadly what I suspected earlier in the thread. I don't know what percentage of UK OO gauge modellers participate in forums, but I'd bet the figure is less than we'd imagine. I certainly do think we're in a minority. Are we picky? Yes, but in this case I think rightly so. Dapol won't rush to correct a problem if they don't think there is a problem. If, as 47606odin says (above), Dapol are under the impression that most purchasers are happy with it, then the paint issues will stay. Get used to the lemony yellow and the purpley blue. The one issue they have owned up to is the PCB/decoder problem. That will get fixed. As much as I'd like to think Dapol are rushing out a second batch with better colours, bits that don't fall off and buffers that point in the right direction, I won't hold my breath. Assuming that everyone following this topic (58) has bought a BR Blue loco and a production run of a livery is 500, then just under 12% of the purchases were made from RMWebbers; and the feedback has been overwhelmingly negative. I'm sorry but the 'average' consumer is simply not going to buy a £120 highly detailed locomotive, essentially for a discerning modeller, when you can buy an entire Hornby trainset for under £100. Dapol are operating in a niche market and as such the range of relationships with their target consumers are very narrow and must be very strong to succeed. The overwhleming response from this forum is that models are not sufficient quality for the price point. We know from Dapol themsleves that the technical reasons are a mistake in the colour combinations chosen and poor quality control. Joel's figures don't add up and I am afraid an analysis of them not only shows poor management and business acumen and a worrying denial to face up to the truth. Companies which push through 'efficiencies' to save money are a feature of modern business. From my own experiences of it, the over-riding factor is that the company maintains consumer confidence, possibly at the same time they are providing a decreasing quality service or product. Of course you are not going to see comments like this written up in any popular railway magazine where they are being bankrolled by the income from advertisers who have to sell these faulty products (many of them are probably breathing a sigh of relief right now) This is why free forums like this one are vitally important both to the consumer and the manufacturer. On a final note and to get this completely clear once and for all, I am proposing RMWebbers should conduct a straw poll of what number of 73 models they have already bought, how many were returned and their level of satisfaction. To keep it simple we will start off with the Class 73 in BR Blue. I purchased 2 and sent them both back, satisfaction 0/5 (0 is lowest) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matabiau Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) i had a couple of replies from Joel (director) at Dapol on Facebook, and he said there have been minimal returns and generally the loco's have been received favourably, therefore i shall come to the conclusion that 'normal modellers' don't mind, he has taken on board what i have said regarding livery shades, detail specifics for certain locos i.e. exhaust cover not fitted on 73/0 locos, so i can assume we are not not normal modellers on here so must be the elite or something and are being too picky. Joel still suggest any issue with our 73's should be reported to them via their contact on the website, and perhaps now they will get replied to. good luck, and heres to better paint colours in the future I have just spoken to Hattons as I am having to send two class 73s back as faulty (buffer beam bent out of shape, not just out of position), and for them it is a big issue with many returns. I don't see how Dapol can say it is a small issue when one of their biggest retailers says otherwise. Edited January 23, 2016 by Matabiau Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRman Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I got a response from Dapol on Facebook acknowledging the livery and PCB problems and saying that the next batch will have corrected circuits, but failing to answer my question regarding supplying replacement corrected PCBs to those who request them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47606odin Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Assuming that everyone following this topic (58) has bought a BR Blue loco and a production run of a livery is 500, then just under 12% of the purchases were made from RMWebbers; and the feedback has been overwhelmingly negative. I'm sorry but the 'average' consumer is simply not going to buy a £120 highly detailed locomotive, essentially for a discerning modeller, when you can buy an entire Hornby trainset for under £100. Dapol are operating in a niche market and as such the range of relationships with their target consumers are very narrow and must be very strong to succeed. The overwhleming response from this forum is that models are not sufficient quality for the price point. We know from Dapol themsleves that the technical reasons are a mistake in the colour combinations chosen and poor quality control. Joel's figures don't add up and I am afraid an analysis of them not only shows poor management and business acumen and a worrying denial to face up to the truth. Companies which push through 'efficiencies' to save money are a feature of modern business. From my own experiences of it, the over-riding factor is that the company maintains consumer confidence, possibly at the same time they are providing a decreasing quality service or product. Of course you are not going to see comments like this written up in any popular railway magazine where they are being bankrolled by the income from advertisers who have to sell these faulty products (many of them are probably breathing a sigh of relief right now) This is why free forums like this one are vitally important both to the consumer and the manufacturer. On a final note and to get this completely clear once and for all, I am proposing RMWebbers should conduct a straw poll of what number of 73 models they have already bought, how many were returned and their level of satisfaction. To keep it simple we will start off with the Class 73 in BR Blue. I purchased 2 and sent them both back, satisfaction 0/5 (0 is lowest) i have kept mine, because i am in Australia, i shall repaint it as i can, but shall buy no more unless there is a marked improvement in later releases. just hope it doesn't develop running issues when i get round to fitting a sound chip to it at some stage Edited January 23, 2016 by 47606odin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) i had a couple of replies from Joel (director) at Dapol on Facebook, and he said there have been minimal returns and generally the loco's have been received favourably, therefore i shall come to the conclusion that 'normal modellers' don't mind, he has taken on board what i have said regarding livery shades, detail specifics for certain locos i.e. exhaust cover not fitted on 73/0 locos, so i can assume we are not not normal modellers on here so must be the elite or something and are being too picky. Joel still suggest any issue with our 73's should be reported to them via their contact on the website, and perhaps now they will get replied to. good luck, and heres to better paint colours in the future In general shops will return items back until a good few months have passed. Some items might even sit on the shelves for a good before it is found faulty. I therefore think it is too early to tell on returns. I have not had any physical defects on my pair despite being shipped abroad during the tail off period of the Christmas rush. However how many were return with actual physical defects? Probably very few as doubtless most modellers corrected them. I don,t see anyone returning the item for incorrect paint colours however some sales would have been cancelled. This then begs the question, if there are more people out there prepared to accept this issue, and the run is very small, then demand will still outstrip supply. Dapol have done an awful lot of liveries, even just 200 of each will still put us around 3000 models which would justify the costs. 200 is very small number so would easily find takers. Publicly Dapol has said "all is well". Behind closed doors they might have absorbed the feedback. If they had sad "yeah we got the blue and yellow wrong" then what will be peoples expectation? Recalling and making a lot of new bodies? "That is ok Dapol, we will live it"? There is no easy answer to that. If the feedback is absorbed, the next batch will better but doubtless they need to shift the first batch first. Otherwise there will be no second batch. Edited January 23, 2016 by JSpencer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobster Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Assuming that everyone following this topic (58) has bought a BR Blue loco and a production run of a livery is 500, then just under 12% of the purchases were made from RMWebbers; and the feedback has been overwhelmingly negative. I'm sorry but the 'average' consumer is simply not going to buy a £120 highly detailed locomotive, essentially for a discerning modeller, when you can buy an entire Hornby trainset for under £100. Dapol are operating in a niche market and as such the range of relationships with their target consumers are very narrow and must be very strong to succeed. The overwhleming response from this forum is that models are not sufficient quality for the price point. We know from Dapol themsleves that the technical reasons are a mistake in the colour combinations chosen and poor quality control. Joel's figures don't add up and I am afraid an analysis of them not only shows poor management and business acumen and a worrying denial to face up to the truth. Companies which push through 'efficiencies' to save money are a feature of modern business. From my own experiences of it, the over-riding factor is that the company maintains consumer confidence, possibly at the same time they are providing a decreasing quality service or product. Of course you are not going to see comments like this written up in any popular railway magazine where they are being bankrolled by the income from advertisers who have to sell these faulty products (many of them are probably breathing a sigh of relief right now) This is why free forums like this one are vitally important both to the consumer and the manufacturer. On a final note and to get this completely clear once and for all, I am proposing RMWebbers should conduct a straw poll of what number of 73 models they have already bought, how many were returned and their level of satisfaction. To keep it simple we will start off with the Class 73 in BR Blue. I purchased 2 and sent them both back, satisfaction 0/5 (0 is lowest) I was going to buy a couple, but having followed this thread I decided to wait and see what happens, so there maybe 58 followers, but not all are purchasers. Cheers, Bob. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
letterspider Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I was going to buy a couple, but having followed this thread I decided to wait and see what happens, so there maybe 58 followers, but not all are purchasers. Cheers, Bob. Hi Bob we don't know either way, which is why I was suggesting the straw poll. Anyway, I am glad you were saved the expense of disappointment and return postage costs. Hopefully there will be future and correct batches...? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
letterspider Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 In general shops will return items back until a good few months have passed. Some items might even sit on the shelves for a good before it is found faulty. I therefore think it is too early to tell on returns. I have not had any physical defects on my pair despite being shipped abroad during the tail off period of the Christmas rush. However how many were return with actual physical defects? Probably very few as doubtless most modellers corrected them. I don,t see anyone returning the item for incorrect paint colours however some sales would have been cancelled. This then begs the question, if there are more people out there prepared to accept this issue, and the run is very small, then demand will still outstrip supply. Dapol have done an awful lot of liveries, even just 200 of each will still put us around 3000 models which would justify the costs. 200 is very small number so would easily find takers. Publicly Dapol has said "all is well". Behind closed doors they might have absorbed the feedback. If they had sad "yeah we got the blue and yellow wrong" then what will be peoples expectation? Recalling and making a lot of new bodies? "That is ok Dapol, we will live it"? There is no easy answer to that. If the feedback is absorbed, the next batch will better but doubtless they need to shift the first batch first. Otherwise there will be no second batch. You make it sound like they are 'dodgy' used car salesmen! Your point about the livery is right though, my guess is the Network Rail yellow will be one of the most, if not the most successful livery and they have lost any interest in the first batch. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brenn Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I was going to buy a couple, but having followed this thread I decided to wait and see what happens, so there maybe 58 followers, but not all are purchasers. Cheers, Bob. Agree Bob....I have learnt over the years to wait while the first batch to arrive of any model is reviewed by folks on here. The £100 + price point having being breached means that in my mind i want things to be right and not have the hassle of sending back (at cost to me) locos. I'm happy to support manufactures like Dapol with my pound but, these are not marketed as railroad type locos. I have a number of locos (Heljan black wheels/class 17 et,al.) that i wished i'd waited for but have missed out on some (HST @£107) by waiting. I have broken this stance with the up coming APT by ordering the full Monty sound version but I think the tread toward crowd sourcing will compel people to order without the luxury of waiting to make sure the product is good enough for the price. B 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold griffgriff Posted January 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 23, 2016 I'm not following this topic but here I am. Don't need to it's popular and always on or near the top. I bet there are more who are following and agreeing (or disagreeing). It would be interesting to see how many have viewed it. I suppose there is a way of searching the forum to find out? Griff Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
miles73128 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 Assuming that everyone following this topic (58) has bought a BR Blue loco and a production run of a livery is 500, then just under 12% of the purchases were made from RMWebbers; and the feedback has been overwhelmingly negative. I'm sorry but the 'average' consumer is simply not going to buy a £120 highly detailed locomotive, essentially for a discerning modeller, when you can buy an entire Hornby trainset for under £100. Dapol are operating in a niche market and as such the range of relationships with their target consumers are very narrow and must be very strong to succeed. The overwhleming response from this forum is that models are not sufficient quality for the price point. We know from Dapol themsleves that the technical reasons are a mistake in the colour combinations chosen and poor quality control. Joel's figures don't add up and I am afraid an analysis of them not only shows poor management and business acumen and a worrying denial to face up to the truth. Companies which push through 'efficiencies' to save money are a feature of modern business. From my own experiences of it, the over-riding factor is that the company maintains consumer confidence, possibly at the same time they are providing a decreasing quality service or product. Of course you are not going to see comments like this written up in any popular railway magazine where they are being bankrolled by the income from advertisers who have to sell these faulty products (many of them are probably breathing a sigh of relief right now) This is why free forums like this one are vitally important both to the consumer and the manufacturer. On a final note and to get this completely clear once and for all, I am proposing RMWebbers should conduct a straw poll of what number of 73 models they have already bought, how many were returned and their level of satisfaction. To keep it simple we will start off with the Class 73 in BR Blue. I purchased 2 and sent them both back, satisfaction 0/5 (0 is lowest) Ive got five: 73101 OK livery (yes I know it doesn't match) haven't run it yet E6001 OK livery (green a bit light?) But I like it, smooth runner E6003 Livery fine, a bit hesitant runner, okish after 5 mins running E6047 OK livery, smooth runner 73141 Had to return, paint smudge, but replacement fine and smooth runner All have the PCB issue of course. I've added dark grey paper behind the side windows and grills to cut out the view of the PCB. Overall, the chassis is a massive improvement over the Limby, but the body only marginal. The etched grills are an improvement, but it's not a deal breaker for me. They look amazing with the buffer beam plumbing, but then you cant use the coupler. (not Dapols fault!) I don't like the dimples in the roof however. Don't care if that's because of the laser scan, I prefer things to be correct, even if they have sagged in real life! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyddrail Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 I have emailed Joel directly regarding the oval buffers falling out but no reply as yet. It's only been a few days so will wait a few more to see if for once I get a reply to this issue otherwise I will have to source replacement buffers myself.. I was surprised how easily the oval buffer can be pulled out. The retaining end does not work, either too short or too weak. Just checked a round buffer and retaining end is different and fits securely. I would put the oval buffer as miss designed. I need to replace with round buffers for my period so not a big issue to me. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew F Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 .....folk may want your ovals to replace the ones that fell off theirs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted January 23, 2016 Share Posted January 23, 2016 (edited) Of course you are not going to see comments like this written up in any popular railway magazine where they are being bankrolled by the income from advertisers who have to sell these faulty products (many of them are probably breathing a sigh of relief right now) Here we go again! I suggest you read my comments in Model Rail before you keep repeating this crap ad nauseum. Following the comments on here I actually obtained three different samples to test (only one direct from Dapol). I have commented on the issues which I noticed - as well as the good points. I had SOME of the problems encountered by RMweb posters (including a missing buffer), but not all, and I've commented accordingly (I ALWAYS review as I find - and I NEVER know who is advertising and who isn't). The ad department is on a different floor and operates independently from editorial. I have - in the past 50 years - had ALL the major manufacturers THREATEN at one time or another to withdraw their advertising as a RESPONSE to what they consider a 'bad' review. To the best of my recollection NONE of them has ever actually done so. Having seen the level of negativity about this model, I was actually pleasantly surprised by a number of excellent features which I've not seen mentioned on RMweb. Professional journalists do have to approach reviews in somewhat less strident tones than anonymous posters on forums but as far as I'm concerned that doesn't mean I gloss over issues. (CJL) Edited January 23, 2016 by dibber25 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 For me, despite these few faults, which are mostly easily fixed, this is overall an excellent model at a reasonable price. I appreciate some people expect perfection "at this price". I don't excuse the faults, but it would be an error to suggest that this is an exceptionally high price for new models in the future. As Chris has said, this model has many functions and qualities not available on the Limby version, and the colour issues seem to be a matter of opinion (bar the black v grey on the IC and possibly the yellow on all, but even there, I have seen photos of real 73's with lemon ends!). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Decorum Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 There are some beautiful shots in this video. I know they're of 37s (no excuse needed) but my reason for posting the link here is the use of the cab lights. Very instructive for someone convinced that cab lights are extinguished when running! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxPV8rb_9qc 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanspareil Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 (edited) Had my loco about a week now, in many areas stunning I do admit (and it should be) but have found it a some what frustrating model to own, one of the more frustrating I have owned. It is also the dearest I have ever bought! Among the issues much discussed here I too have seen poor running (poor electrical pickup) issues, mostly when cold. On examination on the bench no apparent issues other than maybe too much lube or some other problem between wheel/axle/bearing and wiper? On the bench pickup on all wheels seems intermittent. Running on DC with GM controller. Wheels and track cleaned. - The loco also seems to run rather hard and ungracefully through some of my more worn (but not worn out) point work. No other loco I have runs as hard as this. - I have a paint blemish. From a distance not noticeable. - one etched grille bows away from the body leaving a gap. Need to work a way of securing without risk of spoiling the model. - Speed, now for the vast majority I appreciate top speed is not a great concern, more low speed control, but I run a very large 'tail chaser' of a layout. The 73 is not a loco that spends most of its life at the top end of its speed range in real life agreed but I have clocked mine to run at no more than 67mph scaled down on a short train when fully warmed up. I would have preferred it to at least have the ability to reach its prototypical top speed. I do hope Dapols class 68 offering will have slightly higher gearing and so more prototypical longer legs! + other more common issues already much discussed. I was in two minds on sending it back but will probably keep this one loco. It has really put me off buying any more though (I had 3x lima ones), especially if the price stays high. Interestingly most magazine reviews seen so far have been incredibly positive on the Class 73, indeed some even going as far as pouring scorn on some comments! Maybe its just me but I must admit whilst not expecting perfection (do we ever get perfection?) I was hoping for something a little closer to it with this model at this price point than has been delivered! I was really hoping not to have some/all of the issues I have seen. Edited January 24, 2016 by sanspareil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted January 24, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 24, 2016 At the risk of sounding like I am just trying to ingratiate myself with CLJ I think Model Rail reviews are excellent. Writing a review is one of those things which is about balance. I do not want reviews to be whitewash or just a reprint of some guff sent out by the manufacturer, equally I get switched off and irritated sometimes by reviews where I can hear the axe being sharpened. A good review should draw the readers attention to any short comings whilst being equally attentive to positive attributes of the model and providing a balanced summary. And I've always found Model Rail does that very well. I'm not saying other magazines don't also do it well too but for better or worse the two magazines I actually buy are MR and the dear old Railway Modeller. I think it is entirely legitimate for a reviewer to note the negative aspects of a model but to sum up to the effect that whilst it is not perfect it is nevertheless a nice model and that most people will be pleased with it. On this Class 73 I do think Dapol have dropped some klangers, especially with some of the colours, but the tooling is superb with huge potential. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
H47chy44 Posted January 24, 2016 Share Posted January 24, 2016 After a day of working on my 73 adding extra pickups its now up and running nicely. Thank you to everyone that commented and pointed me in the right direction. Shame i had to do it as it should run well from new at over £100. Lets hope the 68 is far better but will not be pre-ordering one. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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