New OO gauge Class 73

[adb968008]

Fascinating, here we all thought BR “designed” large logo blue in 1978 with 56036, when really it’s based on a 60’s throw back and makes it accurate to have full yellow cabbed blue 73’s running with BR Green Bulleid stock... !!!

 

Slight Tangent, but the SR did have another go..

Here is 33012 in 1981.

https://geeceesfotts.smugmug.com/Trains/CLASS-33/i-S8wKFKm

Edited July 17, 2018 by adb968008

[stovepipe]

E6012 is shown with a wrap round yellow end on page 26 of Modern Locomotives Illustrated 198 which is stated as being carried for a short period in the summer of 1967.

 

Is the number visible? I only ask as RCTS have a photo purportedly from 1969 showing it still in blue with small yellow panels. This one...

 

[Butler Henderson]

 

Is the number visible? I only ask as RCTS have a photo purportedly from 1969 showing it still in blue with small yellow panels. This one...

 

 

Its a front three quarter shot - the fourth number could be anything on a my copy.

[Natalie]

E6012 is shown with a wrap round yellow end on page 26 of Modern Locomotives Illustrated 198 which is stated as being carried for a short period in the summer of 1967.

The caption says E6012 but the number is clearly E6018. The same picture is also in Marsden's Power of the Electro Diesels a little larger. This is a great volume for early livery shots as it was published just

prior to large logo-I think. Marsden hadn't started his "JBs were electric blue" fantasy yet so correctly states that the JBs were delivered in Rail Blue.

[John Tomlinson]

The caption says E6012 but the number is clearly E6018. The same picture is also in Marsden's Power of the Electro Diesels a little larger. This is a great volume for early livery shots as it was published just

prior to large logo-I think. Marsden hadn't started his "JBs were electric blue" fantasy yet so correctly states that the JBs were delivered in Rail Blue.

 

Natalie, that's an interesting comment. Do you think that E6007 - E6012 were delivered in Rail Blue, as shown in the RCTS pic in #1854 above in fact?

 

Perhaps if so, the matt, lighter appearance was due to the painting method, as on Westerns and Warships, which gave rise to the idea of chromatic blue.

 

John.

[leopardml2341]

 

Perhaps if so, the matt, lighter appearance was due to the painting method......

 

John.

Electric airless spray iirc.

[Natalie]

Natalie, that's an interesting comment. Do you think that E6007 - E6012 were delivered in Rail Blue, as shown in the RCTS pic in #1854 above in fact?

 

Perhaps if so, the matt, lighter appearance was due to the painting method, as on Westerns and Warships, which gave rise to the idea of chromatic blue.

 

John.

Hi

In a word yes. The prescence or not of yellow panels and full yellow ends can affect the perception of the colour. The original method of spraying apparently wasn't gloss varnished and appeared matt. Seemingly the matt finish did not stand up well so the blue was soon changed to be applied by brush again and then gloss varnished which made it appear a little darker.

 

The JBs were delivered at a time when the corporate image was the big thing. They were delivered as part of the Southern's flagship scheme, the Bournemouth scheme so it is logical that the new locos would carry the new corporate image rather than an 9 year old livery like electric blue especially as they were also to carry the new double arrow emblem. The REPs,VEPs and TC delivered as part of the new scheme came out in matt rail blue too.

 

One or two of the preserved 73s have been painted in electric blue and they don't replicate the early JB blue livery to me. One of the most accurate recreations was that applied to 73136 'Perseverance' with its blue being gloss rail blue.

[SRman]

The caption says E6012 but the number is clearly E6018. The same picture is also in Marsden's Power of the Electro Diesels a little larger. This is a great volume for early livery shots as it was published just

prior to large logo-I think. Marsden hadn't started his "JBs were electric blue" fantasy yet so correctly states that the JBs were delivered in Rail Blue.

  

 

I'm glad you have cleared that one up. I was never convinced that E6012 was the one involved, and long suspected that caption was wrong.

 

The electric blue myth keeps coming back - I think it may even crop up in that Modern Locomotives Illustrated issue in one of the captions. The same thing also occurs with class 86/AL6 - they were delivered in rail blue, not electric blue. Both classes 73 and 86 looked very attractive with the extra trimmings to offset the blue, in my opinion; things like red buffer beams, grey, white or off-white cab window surrounds, white or grey roofs, and so on, relieving the overall drabness of all-over BR blue. Those wrap-around yellow ends, while short-lived initially, came back later, together with the grey roofs and other trimmings (black or dark grey cab window surrounds and that sort of thing), making the railway scene more colourful again. Don't get me wrong, I did like the BR blue scheme, but over 20 years BR achieved more uniformity than I think was ever achieved previously, and that's why it became boring. All previous liveries tended to overlap previous or subsequent liveries, resulting in some variety on the rails.

 

Coming back to the class 73s, they would have to have been one of the most varied and colourful classes of locomotive on BR, ever. Not bad for what was really a slab-sided box on wheels! 

 

I stand by what I said earlier about the early livery variations on the green ones, E6001-6, not being well covered in the photographic records. For some reason, they attracted a good many photos of E6001 when it was new, but after that interest seems to have waned until the blue era.

 

p.s. In spite of what it may have sounded like, I like class 73s and have a good many models in service.

[SRman]

I still think Lima captured the early blue reasonably well, whereas Dapol completely missed the mark with all of the BR blues in their first release 73s.

I may have posted this before but if it was hosted on photobucket it will be gone anyway, but it shows the Lima blue against the Dapol one. As an aside, the Lima body is now on a Hornby chassis and runs very nicely.


Dapol E6007 and Lima E6012 - 1 by Jeffrey Lynn, on Flickr

[talisman56]

I found this hiding in my Pictures>Railways>Prototype folder on my laptop - I've tried to find the original on-line but it doesn't appear to be on RailPictures.net any more so cannot find any background info on it, or indeed post it via a direct website link. I post it with the full copyright info included.

 

It appears to be a display of new locos at English Electric(?), note the Class 20 on accomodation bogies. My interest is the two electrics on the left. Is the AL6 in 'Electric' Blue or the later 'Rail' Blue? If the former then the 'JB' livery is remarkably similar. If in 'Rail' Blue then was the livery originally applied to E6007 onwards 'Rail' Blue as well? Discuss.

 

Edited July 20, 2018 by talisman56

[John Tomlinson]

I found this hiding in my Pictures>Railways>Prototype folder on my laptop - I've tried to find the original on-line but it doesn't appear to be on RailPictures.net any more so cannot find any background info on it, or indeed post it via a direct website link. I post it with the full copyright info included.

 

It appears to be a display of new locos at English Electric(?), note the Class 20 on accomodation bogies. My interest is the two electrics on the left. Is the AL6 in 'Electric' Blue or the later 'Rail' Blue? If the former then the 'JB' livery is remarkably similar. If in Rail Blue then was the livery originally applied to E6007 onwards 'Rail' Blue as well? Discuss.

 

6993.1095626280.jpg

 

This is a fairly well known picture, but very informative here. I suspect it is an official EE one, that has found its way into Colin Marsden's collection.

 

Clearly the 73 and the 86 are in the same colour, which makes the case for both in Rail Blue, albeit a matt version due to the method of paint application. It also bears out Jeff's view that Lima made a decent effort with their E6012, which I share having the same model. Mine still has its Lima chassis with extra pick-ups and runs well, no need here for digital sound!

 

The two green locos are interesting as well, even if not on topic. The 20 appears to be D8128, the first one in the second batch built with indicator panels. As said, it appears to be on accommodation bogies, and the variety in the grey on the roof suggests the paint job isn't finished, perhaps it was just rushed outside for the photograph? This would be consistent with the idea that the topcoat was still outstanding, after which it would match the 37.

Edited July 20, 2018 by John Tomlinson

[NXEA!]

E6018 was another with early wrap around yellow ends. Robert Carroll of this parish has a few photos.

 

E6018_Eastleigh_Bournemout-Wloo_1-7-67 by Robert Carroll, on Flickr

 

This photo is fantastic - 73 in blue with wrap around yellow ends and unusually placed BR arrows, green Bulleids and what looks like a Maroon Gresley Buffet car further down the formation next to a B/G Mark 1, 8 days before the end of Southern Region steam! 

Edited July 20, 2018 by NXEA!

[roythebus]

I found this hiding in my Pictures>Railways>Prototype folder on my laptop - I've tried to find the original on-line but it doesn't appear to be on RailPictures.net any more so cannot find any background info on it, or indeed post it via a direct website link. I post it with the full copyright info included.

 

It appears to be a display of new locos at English Electric(?), note the Class 20 on accomodation bogies. My interest is the two electrics on the left. Is the AL6 in 'Electric' Blue or the later 'Rail' Blue? If the former then the 'JB' livery is remarkably similar. If in 'Rail' Blue then was the livery originally applied to E6007 onwards 'Rail' Blue as well? Discuss.

 

6993.1095626280.jpg

 

The blue 86 looks just as I remember them when they were new. The AM10s were the same shade of blue, more turquoise than BR blue, or maybe the varnish made it appear different? But then maybe we're all used to seeing BR blue in the latter years when it really was a fded run-down matt colour.

[stovepipe]

I came across this photo today which links the AL6 Blue to Rail Blue.

 

3180 at Northchurch by stratfordman72, on Flickr

[SRman]

Revisiting the blues controversy, the previously referred to copy of Modern Locomotives Illustrated perpetuates the electric blue myth at least twice within its pages. Once in the preamble under a heading "Liveries" and once again in a caption on page 25.

[MGR Hooper!]

I found this hiding in my Pictures>Railways>Prototype folder on my laptop - I've tried to find the original on-line but it doesn't appear to be on RailPictures.net any more so cannot find any background info on it, or indeed post it via a direct website link. I post it with the full copyright info included.

 

It appears to be a display of new locos at English Electric(?), note the Class 20 on accomodation bogies. My interest is the two electrics on the left. Is the AL6 in 'Electric' Blue or the later 'Rail' Blue? If the former then the 'JB' livery is remarkably similar. If in 'Rail' Blue then was the livery originally applied to E6007 onwards 'Rail' Blue as well? Discuss.

 

6993.1095626280.jpg

Is that Class 20 on temporary bogies??? Hard to tell obviously because it's in the shadows. But looks quite different.

[The Ghost of IKB]

This photo is fantastic - 73 in blue with wrap around yellow ends and unusually placed BR arrows, green Bulleids and what looks like a Maroon Gresley Buffet car further down the formation next to a B/G Mark 1, 8 days before the end of Southern Region steam!

 

Brilliant photo, I've seen a few dmu and emu with early wrap round ends, but didn't know any loco had them until large logo livery in the late 70s and 80s.

Thanks for posting it up here!

[griffgriff]

Is that Class 20 on temporary bogies??? Hard to tell obviously because it's in the shadows. But looks quite different.

It’s a Lima model

 

..... but seriously ..... I think you’re right.

 

Griff

[adb968008]

When it comes to wrap around yellow, it was the addition of black that makes the difference, for sure.

Edited July 22, 2018 by adb968008

[New Haven Neil]

The 20 is obviously not finished, not only by the accommodation bogies but also roof and body colours, but also the fact it has no cab or body side emblems.

[Lochnagar]

Sorry if I'm regurgitating an old subject that has been done to death..but I've just bought my first class 73 and genuinely haven't got time to go through 75 pages of topic! I have 73101 The Royal Alex, which is DCC fitted with a gaugemaster decoder. I was expecting the issue with the backwards lighting which I can fix, but the problem is that it runs terribly in one direction. Pulses and stops and goes, stops and goes, and it gets more violent when you increase power. This isn't a pickup issue as it runs fine in the other direction. So..

 

1. Has Dapol released a revised circuit board as a spare part yet? Free or to purchase. 

2. Is the bad running in one direction a result of a duff circuit board/known fault? 

3. Duff decoder..

 

Alex

[Butler Henderson]

Sorry if I'm regurgitating an old subject that has been done to death..but I've just bought my first class 73 and genuinely haven't got time to go through 75 pages of topic! I have 73101 The Royal Alex, which is DCC fitted with a gaugemaster decoder. I was expecting the issue with the backwards lighting which I can fix, but the problem is that it runs terribly in one direction. Pulses and stops and goes, stops and goes, and it gets more violent when you increase power. This isn't a pickup issue as it runs fine in the other direction. So..

 

1. Has Dapol released a revised circuit board as a spare part yet? Free or to purchase. 

2. Is the bad running in one direction a result of a duff circuit board/known fault? 

3. Duff decoder..

 

Alex

Narrow down the options - remove the decoder and fit a blanking plug and see how it behave on dc.

[newbryford]

Sorry if I'm regurgitating an old subject that has been done to death..but I've just bought my first class 73 and genuinely haven't got time to go through 75 pages of topic! I have 73101 The Royal Alex, which is DCC fitted with a gaugemaster decoder. I was expecting the issue with the backwards lighting which I can fix, but the problem is that it runs terribly in one direction. Pulses and stops and goes, stops and goes, and it gets more violent when you increase power. This isn't a pickup issue as it runs fine in the other direction. So..

 

1. Has Dapol released a revised circuit board as a spare part yet? Free or to purchase. 

2. Is the bad running in one direction a result of a duff circuit board/known fault? 

3. Duff decoder..

 

Alex

 

It could still be a pickup issue.

I've seen locos run well one way, but not the other because of the way that the pickups bear upon the surface that they are trying to contact to.

[YesTor]

1. Has Dapol released a revised circuit board as a spare part yet? Free or to purchase.

 

Not as far as I am aware.  Apparently new/revised circuitry is to be installed in the forthcoming batch of 73s.  Logic suggests Dapol could I suppose then make said 'new circuitry' available as a spare for those with troublesome first batch models?  That said, since when did any manufacturer follow 'logic'?!   

 

Al

Edited September 19, 2018 by YesTor

[SouthernMafia]

It could still be a pickup issue.

I've seen locos run well one way, but not the other because of the way that the pickups bear upon the surface that they are trying to contact to.

 

I would agree as mine did this. Couldn't put my finger on it initially until I read this thread. Apply some power with croc clips to the pick-ups (ie bypassing the contact to the axles) and I expect the motor will run smoothly in both directions.