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GWR Club Saloon 9004

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Hello All,

 

I intend to scratchbuild carriage 9004, the GWR Club Saloon that was used as an Observation Carr on the Kyle Line in the 1970s/80s. I have never scratchbuilt anything before but I want this coach for my layout and I don't think there is a kit available. If I was going to have to scratchbuilt it, then this challenge is the perfect reason to start. I wonder if anyone has any scale drawings of this coach? I was lucky enough to do some work on the Queen of Scots train at Crewe and I took a lot of pictures of it then, but a drawing would obviously be very helpful.

 

post-1855-0-42289800-1332710414_thumb.jpg

post-1855-0-85361600-1332710445_thumb.jpg

 

Any comments/tips would be great.

 

Rick

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Welcome to the challenge, it looks like a nice coach. I am sure you will do well, most of scratch building is designing the parts so that you can build. Just takes a little longer than kit building.

 

What scale you working to? Hopefully some one can furnish you with a drawing, and I look forward to seeing your progress.

 

Do not worry you will get lots of help and encouragement on this site.

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Hi Peter.

 

Thanks for the kind words. I should have said, the scratchbuilt is in 4mm! I've always found this forum to be very helpful and encouraging. Hopefully someone will have a drawing or be able to quote some basic dimensions. Otherwise I'll have to try to scale it from photos.

 

Cheers,

 

Rick

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Hi Rick,

 

There was a discussion about this coach on Scottish Modellers some time ago.

 

Thanks for posting the 2 photos you have as these are the best we have come across!

 

Anyway - Our info confirms what Mike has said.

 

W9004W - Inspection Saloon

Swindon 1931 Diag G59.

 

Our information also has indicated that modifications were done in 1971.

 

We do not know what the modifications were or where they were done.

 

Attached are 2 scans photos sent in one of our members of this coach at Kyle.

 

Photographer/owner not known - Unable to confirm with the member as he has passed away.

 

If anyone either knows whose the photos are or is the photographer - please let me know. Then we can update our records approriately.

 

Thanks

Edited by Andy Y
Images available on request from Phil

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To save anyone else looking, I wondered whether there might be a drawing in one of Russell's books on GW coaches but sadly there is not. There is a statement that the coach was built to the same dimensions as the 1929 Riviera stock. That may be true as regards length and height but cannot be right as regards width for the Riviera coaches were 9'5" wide - too wide to be allowed off the GWR.

 

If it does come down to scaling from the photographs a good starting point is the wheelbase of the bogies - 7 feet. Whether the bogie centres are 46'6" and the length over corners 60'0" in common with other vehicles of that vintage is a good question, I'm afraid.

 

Now if that doesn't flush out a drawing from somewhere ....

 

Chris

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To save anyone else looking, I wondered whether there might be a drawing in one of Russell's books on GW coaches but sadly there is not. There is a statement that the coach was built to the same dimensions as the 1929 Riviera stock. That may be true as regards length and height but cannot be right as regards width for the Riviera coaches were 9'5" wide - too wide to be allowed off the GWR.

 

If it does come down to scaling from the photographs a good starting point is the wheelbase of the bogies - 7 feet. Whether the bogie centres are 46'6" and the length over corners 60'0" in common with other vehicles of that vintage is a good question, I'm afraid.

 

Now if that doesn't flush out a drawing from somewhere ....

 

Chris

 

I like your signature about an expert. In the building firm I used to work for our deffinition was slightly different and is as follows

 

An ex is a has been and a spert is a drip under pressure.

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Rick, have you thought of contacting Pendon Museum? I was there today and caught sight of a model that looks awfully like 9004. Sadly I could not get a close look at it.

 

Chris

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Hello All,

 

I don't think there is a kit available.

Rick

 

The sides/ends for this vehicle have been produced a couple of times. Tony Hammnd made it back in the arly 80's (the Pendon one Chris mentions uses his parts). 247 Developments had the sides only for a while whilst it was still run by Errol, but it appears to have been dropped from the current list. The challenge was joining sides to ends as there is only a narrow window pillar at one of the ends which is very weak in 4mm.

 

Mike Wiltshire

post-9992-0-70303700-1334058717_thumb.jpg

Edited by Coach bogie
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I'm now in the process of hunting down some etched sides. I fear this will no longer be able to compete in a scratchbuilding competition though!

 

Rick

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Digging this thread up again. Is the coach profile and length likely to be the same as other Collet coaches such as the G58 nondescript saloons?

 

Cheers

 

Tom

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No.  The length over body is given in Harris as 61 ft 4 1/2 inches which is the same as the corridor stock built between 1929 and 1932.  The body profile is the same as the K40 full brake - 9 ft width at the waist, 8 ft 5 in at the cantrail so it looks as though the sides are bulging.

 

Chris

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Digging this thread up again. Is the coach profile and length likely to be the same as other Collet coaches such as the G58 nondescript saloons?

 

Cheers

 

Tom

Digging this thread up again......

 

Does anyone know if the ends of this coach were flat or curved and if so, to what extent please. Better still, is anyone able (and of course willing), to take a picture of the preserved example side on showing the end profile.

 

As usual, beer awaits anyone who can help.

 

Cheers.

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It is bow ended, so curved.  Think of the Airfix B set coach [but only for a moment ...].  The photos in post #1 show it quite well.

 

Chris

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It is bow ended, so curved.  Think of the Airfix B set coach [but only for a moment ...].  The photos in post #1 show it quite well.

 

Chris

Thanks for the confirmation Chris.

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Silly question - is the carriage no longer around?

 

Have you asked the GWS if they hold any 'photos / drawings?

 

Good luck with this project

Edited by Neal Ball

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Silly question - is the carriage no longer around?

 

Have you asked the GWS if they hold any 'photos / drawings?

 

Good luck with this project

I believe both 9004 and 9005 are preserved o the West Somerset Railway (happy to be corrected), but sadly, this is too far for me to justify a visit. It is also my first foray into anything GWR (apart from a Lima Western when I was 12), so I'm still finding my feet as regards research material.

 

Cheers.

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In addition to the above, I do have a drawing of the coach but it shows the side/end joint as following the tumblehome contour whereas photos look to show this joint to be vertical (much like a Mk1 coach), so I'm just trying to find out which is right, my eyesight or the drawing.....

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One was at Buckfastleigh not that long ago

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

attachicon.gifDSCF1913.JPG

It was being used in the summer last year as the lead coach on their evening dinning train.

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I believe both 9004 and 9005 are preserved o the West Somerset Railway (happy to be corrected), but sadly, this is too far for me to justify a visit. It is also my first foray into anything GWR (apart from a Lima Western when I was 12), so I'm still finding my feet as regards research material.

 

Cheers.

 

 

In which case, see if the respective railways have stock books available to buy / on-line details and perhaps have a trawl through Flickr. As one is at the SDR on their dining trains, its bound to be photographed.

 

Failing that become a member of the SDR and ask for a donation, if someone will photograph it for you.

 

Good luck with the project.

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Thanks Nick.

 

I've never been good on flickr but must try logging in - there seems to be a good few subject pictures there.

 

As regards the SDR, I will get in touch, I'm a big fan of supporting such causes especially where one can potentially benefit in ways such as this.

 

Thanks again.

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