Southern Region photos 1980s.

[Nearholmer]

I will see if I can find my 1987 pictures. No loco haulage, because they were taken in the first few hours, as the great white blanket descended and the electric service gradually ceased. They mostly show huge arcs at CR damp ends, which is what I was really interested in. I’m an electrical engineer, and I’ve used some of the pictures in lectures/talks, to illustrate how arcs happen ‘in the real world’.

[franciswilliamwebb]

The cold weather outside reminded me that I saw some film a while ago of loco hauled emus around Kent in deep snow plus shots of emus in the snow plenty of arcing .Might have been Chatham I think, anyone remember these pics and what media they were on?

The VHS video magazine “Railscene” issue 10 carried an 8 minute or so feature on the Jan ‘87 big freeze in Kent. Some good footage including the snowblower in action and a couple of ploughs being towed out of a huge drift. First feature after the title sequence if anyone has access to a copy.

[Mike Storey]

I will see if I can find my 1987 pictures. No loco haulage, because they were taken in the first few hours, as the great white blanket descended and the electric service gradually ceased. They mostly show huge arcs at CR damp ends, which is what I was really interested in. I’m an electrical engineer, and I’ve used some of the pictures in lectures/talks, to illustrate how arcs happen ‘in the real world’.

 

I will be very interested in seeing these. Watching a "pot" blow is something you cannot believe when you see it for the first time, and quite difficult to describe to those who have not seen it. We were constantly aware of that danger when trying to clear tracks, even with a kind of flame-thrower that was illicitly obtained at Brighton. No endless, pretty procession of loco-hauled units was worth a penny, if you could not get the points to throw.

 

Someone earlier said that all these kinds of attempts were abandoned after privatisation. No they were not, certainly in the late 1990's and in the 2000's. What did change was the recognition that someone's life was not worth getting a few hundred people to work. We did not lose a life on the Central in the 1987 snow, but we did put someone in hospital and invalided out of the service (accident at Hassocks, P/Way, when snow clearing).

 

Please just bear that in mind when making such comments.

[acg5324]

A few years back we had a decent snowfall in the south. There was no train service running so I couldn’t get to work ( in the SR Control)....As was usual I walked to my nearest station, Preston Park, to report in and assist. I took a shovel with me, station unstaffed so I spent six hours clearing the platforms before trudging home. I just finished my dinner when the phone rang, can you get back to Preston Park 8 car 171 running Brighton to Croydon. So 30 mins walk back to the station and the train arrived a few mins later and off to work I went with a couple of my colleagues also coming in for a second shift in the same day and a few lucky passengers.

[rodent279]

You think we had problems?

 

https://www.facebook.com/1264156070264540/posts/2497573906922744/

 

https://www.mdr.de/sachsen-anhalt/magdeburg/harz/brockenbahn-steckt-im-schnee-fest-100.html

[Lyddrail]

In better weather in 1987,  a coach from a 4EPB at Oxted being used as a waiting room whilst the station was rebuilt

Oxted1987 (6).jpg

 

These were 2EPB DTs, may be the same pair as used at Paddock Wood station while that station was being worked on.

Cheers.

[SED Freightman]

These were 2EPB DTs, may be the same pair as used at Paddock Wood station while that station was being worked on.

Cheers.

 

In 1988 the coaches stabled in the former Hawkhurst Bay at Paddock Wood for use as a temporary waiting room were 77111 (ex 6292) and 77106 (ex 6287) A photo appears in the Paddock Wood section of the Kent Rail website at http://www.kentrail.org.uk/paddock%20wood.htm.

[SED Freightman]

Watching a "pot" blow is something you cannot believe when you see it for the first time, and quite difficult to describe to those who have not seen it.

 

First time I saw a pot blow was under the road bridge at Bromley South as a fast train was passing though - loud bang, big arcs and a cloud of smoke and dust, the flying debris would have been quite dangerous had the pot blown adjacent to the crowded platforms.  I think the only thing I have seen that resulted in a more spectacular display of electrical power was when the arm of an excavator on a low loader made contact with the OHL at the level crossing by Ely Station.

[SED Freightman]

A couple of snowy pictures from 1987 :-

 

On 15/01/87 the 0831 Ashford to Charing Cross service formed of 33058 hauling CEP stock has just arrived at Waterloo East at 1035 !

 

On 16/01/87, 33202 hauling VEP stock formed the 1600 arrival in Victoria Platform 1 from Faversham having run via Dartford due to the route via Sole Street being blocked by snow drifts.

 

On 17/01/87, 73142 + 4CEP 1556 & 4VEP 7876 wait to form the 1327 Victoria to Ashford service.

[Nearholmer]

The way a pot blows is sometimes quite interesting, and in many ways not a demonstration of the power of electricity, so much as the power of steam!

 

A common mechanism is for the pot to go 'soft', which is to say that the glazing gets chipped or cracked, and the porous porcelain core then becomes saturated with water. By this stage it has quite a low resistance, and a trickle of current is flowing through it, warming it up (detectable with a thermal-imaging camera). If the combination of current and water gets to just the right point, it can then cause the water to flash to steam, massively increasing the pressure inside the brittle skin of glazing ...... bang!

 

There are other failure mechanisms such as surface tracking, a crack that penetrates from the cap to the base, sometimes opened-up by frost, etc, and they can cause bangs too.

 

The 'miracle' of pots is that most of them last so very long; they are hardy beasts. And, clean track on a well-drained formation has such a high resistance between pot-clip and running rail that a seriously deficient pot still might pass so little current that is survives for ages.

[Mike Storey]

A couple of snowy pictures from 1987 :-

 

F50.37RPUB Waterloo East 15.01.87 - 33058 on 0831 Ashford to CX copy.jpg

On 15/01/87 the 0831 Ashford to Charing Cross service formed of 33058 hauling CEP stock has just arrived at Waterloo East at 1035 !

 

F50.38RPUB Victoria 16.01.87 - 33202 on 1600 arrival ex Faversham via Darford - Sole St blocked with snow copy.jpg

On 16/01/87, 33202 hauling VEP stock formed the 1600 arrival in Platform 1 from Faversham having run via Dartford due to the route via Sole Street being blocked by snow drifts.

 

F51.04RPUB Victoria 17.01.87 - 73142 + 1556 + 7876 form 1327 Victoria to Ashford copy.jpg

On 17/01/87, 73142 + 4CEP 1556 & 4VEP 7876 wait to form the 1327 Victoria to Ashford service.

 

 I well remember those large Copyright SED Freightman signs on the platforms at Waterloo East - they were an absolute bu88er to keep clean, but there you are.

[SED Freightman]

 I well remember those large Copyright SED Freightman signs on the platforms at Waterloo East - they were an absolute bu88er to keep clean, but there you are.

 

At least someone had cleared the snow off them... As you can see, I have a technical problem with reducing the font size when writing on my old B&W photos at present, but hopefully it will be resolved eventually.

[John M Upton]

I have had pots blow on me with a hell of a bang but nothing beats the time I was working the 06:05 Bognor Regis to Victoria a couple of years back when my train dislodged a discarded drinks can at Gatwick Airport and this was the result:

 

Wrote off two point motors, a few tie bars, a couple of hundred metres of cable and wrecked the morning peak by bringing the Brighton Main Line to a standstill for a couple of hours.

 

Thankfully my train was short formed otherwise the back end would have been on top of it when it blew!

[eastwestdivide]

Over on this thread, I was asked for pics of the Bowaters china clay slurry train between Burngullow and Sittingbourne.

Here's what I've got, all from about 1983-85. The block train was normally a 33 as I remember it, and at some point I think in 1985, you started to see small groups of the wagons come down on the Hoo Junction-Sittingbourne/Sheppey (?) trip working.

 

The photo that started the conversation:

 

A few from the footbridge off the Cuxton Road in Strood, at the bottom of Sole Street bank, always good for some noise from the diesels:

 

 

and the back of the same train, showing the Martin Earles/Blue Circle works beside the Medway, and the M2 Medway Viaduct 

 

A relatively unusual instance of a 73 working the train. Rochester Bridge in the right background:

 

And a snatched blurry shot of what appears to be a 47 on the down working, on the embankment in Strood, just the Sole St side of Rochester Bridge Junction:

 

A 73 running round the trip working mentioned in my intro, dropping off or picking up wagons at Rochester:

 

Photo from above of STS 53116 in Rochester yard (probably only there temporarily en route to Sittingbourne on that trip working):

 

And two shots of STS 53130, showing a different style of info panel, plus a repaint (or maybe a deep clean) between the first shot (Sittingbourne I think) in 1984 and the second (Rochester) in 1985:

[The Pilotman]

What an excellent batch of photos! Many thanks indeed for digging them out and uploading them. Oh, and for taking them in the first place, of course. Cheers.

[SED Freightman]

 The block train was normally a 33 as I remember it, and at some point I think in 1985, you started to see small groups of the wagons come down on the Hoo Junction-Sittingbourne/Sheppey (?) trip working.

 

Thanks for posting your photos.  I suspect that the end of the block train working may have coincided with the start (or increase) of traffic ex Quidhampton, the chalk slurry presumably being a cheaper filler in the paper produced at Sittingbourne than china clay.

[eastwestdivide]

Thanks for posting your photos.  I suspect that the end of the block train working may have coincided with the start (or increase) of traffic ex Quidhampton, the chalk slurry presumably being a cheaper filler in the paper produced at Sittinbourne than china clay.

Thanks for that - I wondered at the time if it was a reorganisation of the Speedlink network that led to the change from block trains, but I didn't have any insider information.

 

I just found a presentation (PDF, page 67) that shows china clay's share of paper filler pigments in W Europe went down from 80% in 1972 to 58% in 1988 to 42% in 1996 and 33% in 2001, with calcium carbonates going up from 8% in 1972 to 33% in 1988, 51% in 1996 and 63% in 2001.Maybe they still needed the china clay in smaller quantities for specialist papermaking?

 

Would the chalk slurry from Quidhampton have been any different to the abundant supplies of local chalk from Kent? I suppose if Quidhampton was geared up to supply it, it might have been just as cost-effective as a local supply.

[Rivercider]

In my notes I have this down as the Quidhampton to Sittingbourne tanks

 

33115 passes Salisbury with tanks, 9/6/83

 

cheers

[Mike Storey]

Thanks for that - I wondered at the time if it was a reorganisation of the Speedlink network that led to the change from block trains, but I didn't have any insider information.

 

I just found a presentation (PDF, page 67) that shows china clay's share of paper filler pigments in W Europe went down from 80% in 1972 to 58% in 1988 to 42% in 1996 and 33% in 2001, with calcium carbonates going up from 8% in 1972 to 33% in 1988, 51% in 1996 and 63% in 2001.Maybe they still needed the china clay in smaller quantities for specialist papermaking?

 

Would the chalk slurry from Quidhampton have been any different to the abundant supplies of local chalk from Kent? I suppose if Quidhampton was geared up to supply it, it might have been just as cost-effective as a local supply.

 

Yes, indeed, many thanks for posting these pics. I had (on the other thread) stated the block trains were usually of 19 vehicles, but I was mixing this up with the MGR hoppers that used to go into the Ridham yard (off the Sheerness line) for Bowater's own power station. In fact, each road of the Bowater shed at Sittingbourne could only handle 9 x TTA's, so the maximum block train length was 18 vehicles.

 

As for its use in the paper making process, china clay was used both as a filler, but also for making gloss paper. Increasingly, china clay from France, in bogie tanks which came across on the train ferry, was being used when I was at Sittingbourne (82-84). This may in part explain why the Quidhampton product was preferred later (and reduced to trip working) to be used just as a binding agent or "filler", whilst the French clay was used for the gloss products. SED Freightman may well have better info about that, as I had left by the time this change occurred.

 

I believe the chalk excavated in Kent is good only for making cement and associated products, for which it was certainly being used in my time there.

[Mike Storey]

In my notes I have this down as the Quidhampton to Sittingbourne tanks

 

Salisbury 33115.jpg

33115 passes Salisbury with tanks, 9/6/83

 

cheers

 

There were some deliveries from Quidhampton in that year, but the vast, vast majority were from Burngallow.

[Grampus]

In my notes I have this down as the Quidhampton to Sittingbourne tanks

 

Salisbury 33115.jpg

33115 passes Salisbury with tanks, 9/6/83

 

cheers

Fantastic picture - thanks for posting.  I gathered half a dozen or so of the old Hornby model a couple of years back with no immediate purpose in mind (yes, I know it needs quite a lot of work - hence why they are still sat in the magic cupboard).  Now I know what to do with them! It never ceases to amaze me how much freight traffic I missed, despite spending hours and hours and hours hanging around on the end of the platform at Salisbury, just watching the trains go by.

 

Cheers, 

 

Paul

[eastwestdivide]

.... Increasingly, china clay from France, in bogie tanks which came across on the train ferry, was being used when I was at Sittingbourne (82-84). ...

"Simotra" tanks? I saw a few like that in Rochester yard, e.g. the first photo in this post: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/70626-goods-yards-and-freight-handling/?p=1014664

I had assumed china clay slurry, but could equally have been chalk slurry.

[Fat Controller]

"Simotra" tanks? I saw a few like that in Rochester yard, e.g. the first photo in this post: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/70626-goods-yards-and-freight-handling/?p=1014664

I had assumed china clay slurry, but could equally have been chalk slurry.

In the early/mid 1990s, Sittingbourne received clay slurry in short 'Tiphook' bogie tanks via the train ferry, and then by tunnel. One of the Jouef tanks , not currently in the range, might be used to make a passable recreation.

[P.C.M]

Really enjoying the latest pics. 

By the early 90s the Quidhamton traffic was a trip working from Eastleigh normally calling at Dinton for MOD traffic.

 

Cheers Peter.

[SED Freightman]

 

As for its use in the paper making process, china clay was used both as a filler, but also for making gloss paper. Increasingly, china clay from France, in bogie tanks which came across on the train ferry, was being used when I was at Sittingbourne (82-84). This may in part explain why the Quidhampton product was preferred later (and reduced to trip working) to be used just as a binding agent or "filler", whilst the French clay was used for the gloss products. SED Freightman may well have better info about that, as I had left by the time this change occurred.

 

I believe the chalk excavated in Kent is good only for making cement and associated products, for which it was certainly being used in my time there.

 

The only traffic figures I have for Bowaters at Sittingbourne are as follows :-

Year commencing April 1981 - Received 726 wagons of clay ex WR.

Year commencing April 1982 - Received 346 wagons of clay ex WR, 47 wagons of clay ex SR, 111 wagons of Earths & Stones (Other) ex SR.  Since the wagons of clay ex SR were all received in periods 1-4 and the Earths & Stones (Other) in periods 5-13 I believe this was all chalk slurry ex Quidhampton, allbeit wrongly classified in periods 1-4.

Year commencing April 1985 - Received 684 wagons (no origin details)

I would add that I am unsure if the above figures included any traffic received via the train ferry, but I suspect they do not.

 

Regarding Kentish chalk, I think the answer is that all the principal quarries were owned by the cement manufacturers and hence the product was simply not available in the relatively small quantities required by the paper industry.