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Dapol A3 photo review


Andy Y

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I've had to look this one up on the Color-Rail website to get the info. Photo is dated August 1946. It has its prewar number and shaded rather than Gill sans lettering Boiler however is the 94A fitted in 1946 rather than the 94HP it carried before- but loco was renumbered very shortly afterwards. Judging by the state it is immediately ex-works. Lining is vermilion in the photo on what looks more green than black . Significantly they also have a front shot that seems to show the same- the lining under the footplate is lighter than the bufferbeam (mine is taken from the cab end and the buffetbeam isn't visible).

 

The Green Guide states that 2582 and 2580 were the only two A3s painted in full green after the war with prewar numbers, and that shaded numbers were used on 26 more before Gill sans was used. As an aside two A4s also gained postwar Garter Blue with prewar numbers, and a number gained shaded lattering rather than cutouts due to shortage of stainless steel.

 

Could be the photographic emulsion, but it might not. We have already established that Doncaster didn't always follow its own rules on number size.

 

All the very best

Les

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I've just looked up the photograph in question (found here) and am finding it difficult to reconcile the point of view that the orange lining with green on the running plate of the model is accurate.

 

That shown in the photograph is quite clearly the standard LNER lining out on the running plate, albeit muddied and dirty from use, with the red appearing orange-ish as a result. Given the shade more or less matches that on the axleboxes, this should have been an indication of the actual colour of the running plate.

 

I'm sorry to say I think Dapol have got that wrong. It should be black, lined red, as per the LNER standard spec for the A1s and later A3s on the model.

 

A realy pity as the model is otherwise excellent in all other areas of its application.

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From the photo evidence presented, we can conclude that the odd sized numbers are indeed correct for Papyrus for the pre-war period (when strictly speaking it was an A1 not an A3 but how much difference was there that is visible in this scale??) though [some?/most?] other members of the class had equal sized numbers.

 

The footplate lining (like the number size) is NOT correct for [some?/most?] other members of the class in the period but we have yet to see a colour photo of Papyrus in this timeframe to confirm whether she also differed from the norm in this detail.

 

It may be that the decoration is entirely correct for Papyrus in that timeframe; in which case credit to Dapol for researching and correctly representing the loco; though that does then present the secondary question of why select an identity with multiple non-standard details instead of playing safe and chosing identities that did follow the most common finish (and would have been easier to use as a starting point for anyone wanting a different identity).

 

Paul

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Paul, Les previously stated that:

 

PS- the link to this photo was sent by me to Dapol Dave as a colour reference for the LNER A3s.

 

That specific photograph was apparently the colour reference for the Dapol A3s - do we read that as for all of the A3 models in LNER apple green?

 

I'm left wondering how such a change in livery - and a very specific, unique one at that - go unnoticed by Yeadons Register or the RCTS in their records of the A3s' livery variations? I mean, we have records of different numbering schemes, letter and numeral heights and their artwork, even for the Express Passenger Blue, a lined yellow variation recorded - but not apple green and orange on the running plate?

 

I'm willing to believe a lot of things but a livery variation unique to a single class member, in 1946, prior to nationalisation and when the LNER was actively repainting its whole express fleet into their pre-war liveries (or slight variations on, as with the A4 Pacifics) doesn't seem to add up, for me at any rate. Happy to be corrected, but I remain skeptical.

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From the photo evidence presented, we can conclude that the odd sized numbers are indeed correct for Papyrus for the pre-war period (when strictly speaking it was an A1 not an A3 but how much difference was there that is visible in this scale??) though [some?/most?] other members of the class had equal sized numbers.

 

Paul

 

Papyrus was built as an A3 in March 1929, the eighth of the first batch of ten new-build A3s.

 

As the person responsible for choosing Papyrus (Dave asked me to nominate one) this is the loco which holds the record for the fastest ever run by a non-streamlined locomotive, in 1935 when feasability testing for the streamliners. It was immortalised in Norman McKillop's book "2750 Legend of a Locomotive".

 

I must confess the odd-sized numbers came as a surprise to me, and I've only seen that particular photo since I saw pics of the model. However I've not found other, different pics of it on the Net.

 

There are quite a few pics of other locos with odd-sized numbers, mostly 2s and 7s. A3s seem to have been more prone to this than other LNER classes. There are also some good photos available of Doncaster either using different coloured numerals or only replacing part of a number resulting in odd pairs. 2749 was like this in 1929 (Green Guide 2A fig 47) - not only were the 27 and the 49 on the cab different colours (and this on a brand-new engine!) but the tender lettering was substantially lower than it should have been as a result of a tender swap when only a month old.

 

In the thirties "multiple non-standard details" were commonplace- every loco was painted by hand so every one was slightly different to every other one.

 

All of which goes to show that ANY model can only be as good as the available photos.......

 

All the very best

Les

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Interesting to see the photo with the odd sized numbers - I wonder how that came about...

 

I have to agree with Simon that the green valance looks wrong and is at odds with the RTCS 'Green Series' of books, I don't see that the colour photograph supports this but does show the lining to be organge-ish (trick of the light, poor pigments in the paint, dirt or actually how is was supposed to be?), either way my A3's (once received) will have the valances redone in black and red. Personal preference here, it is just how I like my green locos to look...

 

I hope that Dapol will be releasing more LNER versions of the A3, hopefully with the old GNR tender as that will open up a lot more modelling opportunities (as if I've got the time for those as it is!!! :jester: ).

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Well, that more or less confirms it's a livery error on Dapol's part, as Scotsman in that 1960s preserved form never had that green/orange running plate. That's a terrible shame that something so basic is wrong, when the rest of the model is so right.

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Well, my Papyrus arrived today. The model looks great although there is a few things I'm not so sure about that'll hopefully work themselves out over time.

 

1. Noise, it is very noisy no doubt about that.

2. Motor feels very warm after only a few minutes running, is that normal?

3. Lots of spare bits, not sure what to do with them.

4. Lots of oiling to do before running. Little uncertain here as I'm not keen on opening them up when just out the box.

 

7493523278_2a00f28894_c.jpg

DSCF1385 by Coldgunner, on Flickr

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1. Noise, it is very noisy no doubt about that.

2. Motor feels very warm after only a few minutes running, is that normal?

 

Depends if it's really only a few minutes. If so then that isn't great - particularly for lifespan of the motor.

 

The Dapol motors do seem to get warmer than Farish equivalents - they do bed down after running in. However, it's worth checking the current consumption if you can - if the motor is drawing more than ~125mA then it should be watched - if a lot more then it should be sent back. I had a HST which got so hot that it couldn't be picked up - it was drawing 300mA odd, and clearly had a defective motor. It was sent back.

 

It's disappointing that there seem to be a lot of reports of noisy running for A4 and A3s. Also, how smoothly does it run at high speed? I've seen A4 that ran terribly poorly at high speed, surging and stuttering, arcing from the tender wheels, and (on close inspection) arcing between the wheels and the pickups within the tender frame - the current collection seemed very poor on it - the design of the tender pickups is different and I'm not convinced it works as well as the proper pinpoint style bearings used on 6 wheel tenders, which always make complete electrical contact at all times.

 

Cheers,

Alan

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I'm getting some minor surging, though if I'm honest thats partly due to my dodgy trackwork as my farish loco's suffer similarly. I've been running Papyrus for a good hour or so and the volume of the motor is gone down and I've been monitoring the temperature (by touch) of the tender. I'll sleep easy knowing that Dapol has a good warranty on these things. Mine seems to run better tender first strangely enough, though maybe thats because the pickups are running in front of the drivers? The rearmost driving wheel has traction tyres.

 

I'll keep things running as normal and watch her like any other new loco for the first few runs. I've got her trundling along quite leisurely with five on.

 

Onto the good points I think. Apart from the previously pointed out mistakes, the livery is vibrant and sticks out well amongst my BR loco's. Paired with a set of teaks she'll be gorgeous. I do have one question with regards to the livery, I've got a few 1930's images of non-corridor tenders and they have the black and white lined square on the back, did some loco's have this and some not? 2750 doesn't on this model.

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I do have one question with regards to the livery, I've got a few 1930's images of non-corridor tenders and they have the black and white lined square on the back, did some loco's have this and some not? 2750 doesn't on this model.

 

Another one that sent me scurrying to the books.

 

Willie Yeadon gives NO indication as to what shape the rear lining should be.

 

Available photos show FOUR different variations of the lining on LNER green tender rears attached to A3 types-

 

a. Fully lined out with the lining following the curve on New-Type tenders only.

b. Fully lined out with the lining rectangular but the white edging following the radius. The two photos I have of this on New-Type tenders are both dated postwar. .

c. No lining rectangle but a white edging following the radius of the tender- two photos on New-Type tenders, one prewar and one postwar. This is correct lining for corridoor tenders

d. No lining or edging at all- like the BR version.. Two photos on New-type tenders, one prewar and one postwar, plus one GN and one Corridoor tender, the latter prewar as by postwar years they were all on A4s.

 

Judging by this Doncaster's paintshop were following their usual standard of consistency. I'm not saying it is right for Papyrus - but it is as likely to be right as wrong.

 

Another minefield.

 

All the very best

Les

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a. Fully lined out with the lining following the curve on New-Type tenders only.

b. Fully lined out with the lining rectangular but the white edging following the radius. The two photos I have of this on New-Type tenders are both dated postwar.

c. No lining rectangle but a white edging following the radius of the tender- two photos on New-Type tenders, one prewar and one postwar. This is correct lining for corridoor tenders

d. No lining or edging at all- like the BR version.. Two photos on New-type tenders, one prewar and one postwar, plus one GN and one Corridoor tender, the latter prewar as by postwar years they were all on A4s.

Another minefield.

 

 

 

Update- having exhaused ALL prewar photos I can find- the variant I listed as a above seems to be an aberration on a single tender, and b was a postwar addition. This makes version c the most common variant on New-type tenders and Papyrus is most likely to be correct.

 

All the very best

Les

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I have had no issues on my A4 whatsoever. Maybe it has to do with our AC outlets being lower over here in the states, though I doubt that.

 

As for the oiling, I thought is was just the motion that was needing it. Thats all I did and it broke in fine. No warming of the tender either.

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Its still noisy, but is breaking in nicely. Gave the inner gears and the motion some oiling. The motor is still loud and I don't know how to open the tender without being cack-handed about it. The good warranty Dapol offers is some level of comfort and I'm quite happy with the model as is.

 

Edit: shot a quick video to show what I mean

 

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Its still noisy, but is breaking in nicely. Gave the inner gears and the motion some oiling. The motor is still loud and I don't know how to open the tender without being cack-handed about it. The good warranty Dapol offers is some level of comfort and I'm quite happy with the model as is.

 

Edit: shot a quick video to show what I mean

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_n9i9HreQg&feature=youtu.be

 

Its interesting. I have several Farish models, newer ones, that squeal. I had a new Standard 4 that did it and a B1 which is going back to Bachmann because the motion locks after 1 hour of running (though I've sadly had it a year).

 

The A4 was the first Dapol Steamer i have owned and it is very much flawless, though i was scared based upon the stories I heard about Dapol quality on the steamers. Strange.

 

Hopefully Farish moving the motor to the locomotive body will help this.

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I saw a Papyrus in the flesh today, and it is a fantastic model, through and through, though I found the green/orange footplate incredibly distracting. Since 4472 exhibits the same livery error, will future A3s in apple green have a revised livery scheme to take this into account?

 

It seems a shame as it is literally the only thing which really stands out from the rest of what is a very well proportioned and detailed model.

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The driveshaft isn't the cause unless it's loose or faulty - the loose fitting tender wheels rattle (the do on the A4s I've seen and presumably the same here) and the tender acts as a sounding box. Lubricating the tender axle ends (carefully with something conductive) helps a little.

 

Regards,

Alan

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Its interesting. I have several Farish models, newer ones, that squeal. I had a new Standard 4 that did it and a B1 which is going back to Bachmann because the motion locks after 1 hour of running (though I've sadly had it a year).

 

The A4 was the first Dapol Steamer i have owned and it is very much flawless, though i was scared based upon the stories I heard about Dapol quality on the steamers. Strange.

 

Hopefully Farish moving the motor to the locomotive body will help this.

 

Hi Seanem44

 

I Have last count 17 tender driven Farish locos and I have had very few problems. I know that tender drive is not for everyone, but it is a solution that works for many manufacturers. The other day I did have my first driving wheel "lock up" on my weathered Farish B1. I reasoned that if it had been running fine for many many hours this was far more likely to be a hair or bit of crud somewhere than anything more terminal.

 

So I dismantled it. I have to say it was a doddle to do so, the model was clearly designed to come apart for maintenance. No hairs anywhere, the problem turned out to be a build up of dirt on the pickups. Cleaned with some meths on a cotton bud, I took the opportunity to clean the axles and chassis too. A tiny spot of oil on the axles, back together...all is now fine..

 

My experinence with A4 "Wild Swan" from Dapol has been very good, I have had none of the reported problems,after a significant amount of running time, A good loco.

 

Looking at the Farish Std 5 and WD I think the bar has been lifted yet another notch. I am not fussed about the motor being back in the loco personally but I guess it is nice to have the loco wheels driven with no ugly driveshaft visible and it does potentially leave room in the tender for DCC sound. The WD I saw at the NGS AGM ran like a watch - whisper quiet, I have a Standard 5 on order, I await it with great anticipation. But then as mentioned earlier in this thread, I have a Dapol A3 "Lemberg" on order too which I am also very keenly awaiting.

 

Regards

 

Roy

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My first A3 arrived on Tuesday and has now completed about 4 hours of running in. No problems apart fron one slidebar angled slightly upwards probably due to rough handling somewhere in transit (pushed back into line with a cocktail stick). This latter is the same problem I had with my A4 (and nothing to worry about), though it was nowhere near as loose as on Wild Swan.

 

 

All the very best

Les

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This morning my Dapol "Lemberg" arrived.

 

Runs very sweetly straight from the box and having oiled as required I will now run it in.

 

As to looks - well, the wait for the livery corrections was worth it, it is just stunning.

 

I am sure some will nit-pick, but in my humble opinion the model just does not deserve it.

 

Roy

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