Coldgunner Posted August 14, 2012 Share Posted August 14, 2012 I did something similar today. As my farish model of 60800 is somewhat knackered at the moment, I removed the motor and have her as an unpowered dummy. With 2750 on the front she pulled away without any slip, 60800 being equally tough to pull as the rake of coaches. Had another Bachmann 6 pin seemingly go pop the other day (programmable but won't apply power for some reason), and half expecting the one in 2750 to go pop again, won't be buying anymore Bachmann decoders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 My first attempt at a video review. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 My first attempt at a video review. Nice one- not easy to pick up the loco and turn it round for the camera without popping the driveshaft out. My third one "Flying Fox" arrived this morning and is running-in nicely. At first I thought it was nose-down - certainly seemed to be, but after removing the front bogie and checking for any overtightening (there wasn't any) it now sits with buffers in line with the tender buffers of Lemberg. Performance out of the box- quieter than Papyrus was, and running cool. that makes three out of three good ones (and the self-inflicted A4 problem sorted also.....) Keep up the good work. Next one will be Grand Parade.... All the very best Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N Gauge David Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 As mentioned further up this thread, I have recently purchased the LNER Green A3 Papyrus and the Blue A4 Andrew McKosh. I have to admit to being disappointed with the running quality of both of these locos, which was way short of the standards set by my Farish A1 North Eastern, and indeed earlier Dapol steam engines I own, namely a Black BR Std 9F and an LNER Green B17. I made contact with a fellow RMWeb'er and he has made some cosmetic and performance improvements to both locos, all of which I am very pleased with. However, the truthful answer is that the performance of the A4 is still below what I had hoped for in particular at slower speeds, though the A3 is now acceptable without being A1 (if you'll pardon the pun). I admit that my track laying may not be perfect, and not up to the standards of some other members on here, but if other locos (both steam and diesel) can handle the same track, then I had hoped for more from these two recent purchases. Indeed, watching again some of the video reviews others have posted on here, I must say I am disappointed with my own locos. It may be that after further running in (and track cleaning) that improvements may be forthcoming. If so, I shall post again on here to update. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 Sorry to hear that- you need about 3 to 4 hours gentle running-in to get the best out of these- the mechanism does take a long time to bed in. McCosh and Papyrus won't be as quiet as lemberg or as the Bachfar tender drives- there is just too much empty space in the tender acting as an echo chamber. One reason the Farish WD is so quiet is there is NO spare space inside it to create an echo. All the very best Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 McCosh and Papyrus won't be as quiet as lemberg or as the Bachfar tender drives- there is just too much empty space in the tender acting as an echo chamber. One reason the Farish WD is so quiet is there is NO spare space inside it to create an echo. The real reason is that the Farish motor is silent, low vibration, within a much heavier chassis as compared the Dapol tender. The Dapol tender locos can be made much quieter if the motor is run in (as you suggest), if they are weighted significantly. The crux of many of the problems is still the poor pickup design on the tender IMHO. Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymondhood Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 How can the electrical pick up be relate to running noise? I don't run with DCC but the Dapol units with DC control run, at low speed, with significantly better cintrol. SILENT!!! quieter for sure, So all we have to do, or, rather Dapol, is to put a bit of mass in the tender, a couple of blobs of Blu Tack or glue in some lead? and all will be well. IMHO there are far to many people quick to criticise Dapol, far to few who will see the dreadfull examples of horrendous engines produced by Farish in the past. The competition is good and thankfully we have a British company willing to take the risk of increasing the quality of models of original UK design and not using some cobbeled together version of europian chassis or just expecting the UK to put up with something inferior. Sorry I'm just a wee bit annoyed Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 How can the electrical pick up be relate to running noise? Because the slop in the pickup holes which also double as the tender axle bearings means the wheels can rattle (which is bad for noise, and very bad for electrical conductivity), particularly due to the motor vibration. Easy to see if you add weight to the tenders and carefully lubricate the axle ends - immediate difference noticable - done it on 5 A4s and A3s now, all with the same consistent improvement. So all we have to do, or, rather Dapol, is to put a bit of mass in the tender, a couple of blobs of Blu Tack or glue in some lead? and all will be well. Preferably Dapol, and preferably during initial product testing and design... far to few who will see the dreadfull examples of horrendous engines produced by Farish in the past. Perhaps for some, but I've never had an old Farish model that's exhibited these problems.....! IMHO there are far to many people quick to criticise Dapol, Plenty of criticism floating around on the other side of the fence on the Farish side too (see the 5MT thread!) - if the models have flaws then they can expect them to draw such comments! Criticism (and constructive solutions which is what I've tried to indicate previously) is warranted IMHO when £100 is the going rate for one of these, and it's a brand new design! Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymondhood Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Thanks Alan, I'll try adding weight to the tenders of my A4s and A3s, it would be great if these approached the near silent running of my Farish B1. Your constructive solutions on both sides of the fence are appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanem44 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I was going to pull the trigger on a 5MT until I saw the issues. It looks lovely. I drew the ire over in the Farish forum over gripes I made about having to pay the 20 GBP (30 USD for me) on a B1 that had its motion lock and I couldn't resolve. I had it for over a year (yes, out of warranty by my own admission and fault), but had only ran it for one hour. Disclaimer... I don't want to get in this argument again, even I see both sides of it. I am using this to merely preface the point I am trying to get across, which is: If I am paying over 100 GBP, which for me is $150 depending on the exchange rate, I expect the engine to run faultless. No lopsided chimney's, no blatant livery errors, no issues. None. This is the second Farish I have had to send back. To be fair, I own only two Dapol engines, Wild Swan which was faultless, and Lemburg which I have not got around to unpacking. It's a down economy. $150 is a lot, and it is getting harder to smuggle packages pass the wife. Make sure the product is right before it is released. It isn't that hard. QC the engines before they leave the lot. If you are worried about how much this would cost Dapol or Farish, think about this..... the 64 GBP that it would cost to pay an extra person to spend a day to QC a lot of engines (8 GBP x 8 hours) would not have been a factor if I would have purchased a 5 MT. Due to the problems I see with them, I am hesitant, and that's 100 GBP less for Bachmann. Yes... I have oversimplified things and there are far more costs involved... but you see my point. In the end, I don;t buy the engine and the company doesn't get the profits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 The trouble with QC is that some locos run well, others go to experienced modellers who are able to iron out minor faults without resorting to return, others are sold to collectors and never run at all. The upshot of this is that it is cheaper for Dapol and Farish to simply replace any returns than it is to test all the locos at the factory. It may not be a perfect system but the fact that all the major British RTR manufacturers operate this policy suggests it is not a coincidence that it is the one that is used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seanem44 Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 That is a fair enough explanation. I guess my problem is compunded living over seas, as returns are a headache. I suppose on the bright side we have reached a level of realism I didn't think was possible even ten years ago. My first farish was a Class 08 which I look at now in amazement for how crude and un-prototypical it was. Goodbye pizza-cutter wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.A.C Martin Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 There's absolutely nothing wrong with constructive criticism. We all want the manufacturers to improve my wares. My concern is for future Dapol A3 models, particularly with regards the LNER liveries on the A3 and A4 models. Both exhibit problems which a simple check of Yeadon's Register or RCTS Volume 2A would have proven. In the latter case of the A4, garter blue with LNER and the two digit Thompson renumbering scheme is viable, but only if the numbering is in unshaded lettering appropriate coloured to the locomotive concerned (with cut out lettering and numbering or not). Gold shaded lettering or simply gold numbering and lettering is not correct for the A4s in the period depicted, as far as RCTS and Yeadon are concerned. In the case of the A3, the green/orange running plate needs to be black, lined vermillion. This is correct for all A1s/A3s in apple green as far the RCTS and Yeadon volumes go. This latter point needs to be made quite firmly; the Dapol model is not correct as it stands, and it is somewhat frustrating to see a livery issue in this vein when so much material is available on this particular livery. Doubly frustrating when the livery is so excellently applied to the model in question. I can't comment on the mechanicals as I have not purchased either model, but I think of the posters in both threads on the Dapol Pacifics, Dr Al's summations have been the most interesting and constructive of the lot. Dapol have been first to the line with the A3 and A4, and whilst they agreeably have some flaws, but they are a considerable step up from the older Farish models. Let them continue to improve with a mutual and agreed understanding of "constructive criticism". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 I guess my problem is compunded living over seas, as returns are a headache. I freely admit that living in the UK and being within walking distance of a "bricks-and-mortar" modelling shop, I can afford to be somewhat blase about returning products. I realise others do not have this luxury. There's absolutely nothing wrong with constructive criticism. We all want the manufacturers to improve my wares. My concern is for future Dapol A3 models, particularly with regards the LNER liveries on the A3 and A4 models. Both exhibit problems which a simple check of Yeadon's Register or RCTS Volume 2A would have proven. I agree wholeheartedly. The LNER is not the only company affected by silly livery errors. The lining on the first batch of GWR Halls was all over the place. In this area I think Farish have the edge in being more thorough with their research. I suspect in part this comes with being a larger company. Dapol do well but as a small company, mistakes like this happen as I get the impression a lot of the staff are more familiar with modern image than steam stock. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 Has anyone been running theirs without tires on? One side disintegrated and the other popped off when oiling. I get some slipping, especially on my 2nd radii corners. Does anyone know how to easily install the replacements? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreamnos Posted September 16, 2012 Share Posted September 16, 2012 I agree wholeheartedly. The LNER is not the only company affected by silly livery errors. The lining on the first batch of GWR Halls was all over the place. In this area I think Farish have the edge in being more thorough with their research. I suspect in part this comes with being a larger company. Dapol do well but as a small company, mistakes like this happen as I get the impression a lot of the staff are more familiar with modern image than steam stock. I've - seriously - often wondered if it wasn't research thoroughness or the size of the company that led to silly mistakes by either company, but instead simply a consequence of things being lost in translation. That, as well the designers and workers in China not having even the remotest idea of what it is exactly they are manufacturing. I'm sure to probably most of them a train is a train and a New York Central J3a Hudson isn't really any different from a Stanier Pacific. There also times when I wonder if the workers who put these models together think the West and the people who live there have their priorities all screwed up. If they actually knew what we spent to get one of these models, I'm certain they'd laugh their heads off at us. And I think they'd have a point. Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Has anyone been running theirs without tires on? One side disintegrated and the other popped off when oiling. I get some slipping, especially on my 2nd radii corners. Does anyone know how to easily install the replacements? That shouldn't have happened, and I've not seen problems with tyres on any Dapol loco. I can imagine if it has been pushed along the track when not running or allowed to wheelspin for some reason then this could have an effect. If it's slipping then there's a reason - oil on track, some issue causing wheels to be lifted off the rails. Running without tyres isn't a great idea - there is groove in the wheel tread for the tyre so this will more readily bump over turnouts and possibly wear insulfrogs in time. Replacing tyres is easy - the little hex head tool in the box is exactly for this purpose - remove the hex head crank pin on the valve gear, pop the tyre on and the replace the bolt. Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Hah, didn't even know I had a tool for it! Its probably because my track needs a damn good clean.She's fine on the straights though, just losing her feet in the curves. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted September 17, 2012 Share Posted September 17, 2012 Ok, in the process of swapping out the tires, although does anyone know how to properly access the rear drivers? I've lost my service sheet Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tony graham Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 'Bayardo' has arrived, and a local loco for me being just a few hundred yards from Carlisle Canal shed. I cant wait to give her a first run, just need a chip now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Last one (for now?) arrived this morning. "Grand Parade" to finish the pair I need if Hawthorn Dene is going to have a prewar option (I have a good selection of other LNER locos from Parnhams, including multiple J25/6/7s, D20s and even a K3, together with quite a lot of appropriate coaches and wagons so can nearly stock the layout to run prewar for a change). Of the six LNER Pacifics I have this is the second one with a slide bar not quite horizontal- slightly loose on one side, pushed back and straightened with a cocktail stick- probably not quite firmly in to start with and vibrated looser in transit, not an issue but a minor irritation. This loco is the first one (of six) to give me an anxious moment when tried out on the track- a slight but detectable wobble. Looking for a cause before returning it to its box I noticed one of the traction tyres not quite seated fully. Again about 10 seconds work with a cocktail stick to edge it into place (following about 2 minutes of getting the loco to creep the driving wheels into the right position-I told you I was a bit hamfisted). Loco is now running straight and smooth. No temperature issues so it should bed down OK. One other thing from the warranty- the Dapol newsletter asks for proof of purchase on returns to DCC Supplies, and the warranty slip has a place for a dealer stamp. NOT ONE of my six pacifice has a dealer stamp- and that is from 3 different dealers and the silver A4 direct from Dapol. Has ANYONE got a warranty sheet with a dealer stamp on it, or am I uniquely unlucky/thick? All the very best Les Is this the last one? If Captain Cuttle in BR (Darlington loco with unique combination of blinkers, round dome and high tender) or Humorist in LNER green with double chimney appears, then possibly not......... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coldgunner Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I've never had an issue with just keeping a copy of my emailed invoice. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elvinley Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 They don't require this, just proof of purchase. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ohmisterporter Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 One other thing from the warranty- the Dapol newsletter asks for proof of purchase on returns to DCC Supplies, and the warranty slip has a place for a dealer stamp. NOT ONE of my six pacifice has a dealer stamp- and that is from 3 different dealers and the silver A4 direct from Dapol. Has ANYONE got a warranty sheet with a dealer stamp on it, or am I uniquely unlucky/thick? Not at all unusual Les. I can't remember the last item I bought with the dealers section of the warranty completed but never had any trouble with returning faulty items. I think the manufacturers know the dealers aren't going to fill them in so they just accept returns anyway. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Al Posted September 22, 2012 Share Posted September 22, 2012 Some improvements. Loco has had the following done: - tender weighted - extra pickups fitted to rear bogie wheels - eccentric rod cranks set forward to correct position - wheels painted black - black parts of valve gear painted gunmetal to match the rest - valve gear toned down and harmonised with black wash - front cutout in bufferbeam filled in (as can be seen there is still plenty clearance for the NEM mount, showing the cutout really isn't needed) - front coupling hook and base removed and replaced with a Farish one in correct position (lower) - chimney drilled out, and base lip thinned down - cylinder draincocks added - smokebox door numberplate removed and a new one fitted on the upper hinge strap - front smokebox door handrail replaced with separates and low lamp iron - smokebox hinges painted as prototype (still need a little touching up!) - speedo drive added to rear wheel on left side, left over from an A4 that pre-dated the introduction of these, so had it removed. - electrification flashes added to boiler (anyone with pointers on the correct locations for them on the tender would be useful - my reference books have let me down on that!) - detail bits in the bag fitted (vac pipes, cab doors, front steps) - coal added A big to-do still on this one is to replace the deflectors - they are the wrong shape, and set at the wrong angle so loose the look of the prototype IMHO. See for comparison: http://www.flickr.co...N02/3163375755/ This is the first of 4 BR A3s to do - this one ran the best of the 4 but still noisy and not perfect pickup. Next (60079 Bayardo) is already being worked on and was the worst - short circuited (overlong screw on one side of the chassis, shorting it out), very poor pickup, and worst of all the motor disintegrated after 10 mins running (commutator fell apart). The motor is now replaced, pickups fitted, tender weighted and it's running well. 60070 is also fairly erratic, 60106 is noisy but better. They are in the queue for reworking ! Cheers, Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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