robertcwp Posted December 31, 2012 Share Posted December 31, 2012 As Mike Trice points out, the lining style is a good way of identifying lined crimson. The lining was basically like that on a crimson and cream carriage, with the black on the side where the cream would have been. The photo a few posts ago shows a 5-compartment brake third, a type not introduced until 1951. The Railway Executive issued instructions to Swindon Works to discontinue lining on 9 April 1951. I don't know the exact date when lining on crimson was discontinued on ER/NER vehicles but these vehicles might have emerged new in plain crimson as deliveries did not begin until the middle of 1951. Colours in colour photos are not reliable but if you have a photo of a BR crimson vehicle next to a maroon one, the difference tends to stand out and, if anything, be emphasised by how colour film of the time depicted reds. BR maroon could appear quite bright on photos, especially on a newly repainted vehicle, as here: 69504_EFinchley_RCTS_NorthKentRailtour_21-3-59_m by robertcwp, on Flickr Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Delamar Posted January 1, 2013 Share Posted January 1, 2013 I thought this shot would be of interest.. http://www.flickr.com/photos/9832585@N03/5808940298/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium 31A Posted January 1, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 1, 2013 Nice picture Michael - a view I remember from family holidays in Whitby about 10 years or so later than when that picture was taken; by then it was all DMUs. Wonder why the right hand coach seems to have all its doors on 'first catch'? Cleaners working on it, maybe? Looks like a BR standard non gangwayed in the middle road? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators SteveCole Posted January 17, 2013 Administrators Share Posted January 17, 2013 You might be interested in checking out this article by Tony Wright. It's all about weathering Hornby's non-gangwayed coaches and features the Thompson. Enjoy... https://www.model-railways-live.co.uk/Articles/310/Weathering_Hornbys_non-gangwayed_coaches_by_Tony_Wright Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 The very weathered coach doesn't look like anything I ever saw in service...It is simply covered in too much obvious and highly visible muck. Even the elderly ex LNWR and early LMS non-corridor coaches that I travelled in down to Manchester had cleaner windows despite 35 years of tabocco smoke stains on the inside and harsh treatment on the outside of the glass. Peeling paint on elderly wooden coaches was more often seen in the 1950s rather than uncleanliness. The thing about weathering and muck is it needs to be subtle, as over-egging defeats the objective. The range of steam videos are worth looking at because even in the later 1960s, when most of them were filmed, there was an effort to keep coaches clean even when the rest of BR had gone to pot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Oldddudders Posted January 17, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 17, 2013 Weathering windows is an art in itself. Having managed carriage-cleaning depots in my time, windows always got priority even if time was short and weather conditions difficult. So dirt around the rim of the frame would look better than the overall wash of dirt so often applied. But at least this is better than the diesel loco or DMU with a dirty windscreen - which driver would take that on the track, risking missing a signal? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 I too think the visible dirt in the review far to 'heavy' around the windows, and in the days when I rode on steam hauled everyday trains between Auckland and Wellington with 22 tunnels from memory, all very 'smoky' tunnels but windows never got that dirty. Cursory hose-and-brush washing and almost every trip was the norm, with rare machine washing in later years. Same applied on all New Zealand railways of the day... and there were lots of narrow-bore tunnels on grades! Rob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 17, 2013 Share Posted January 17, 2013 DO NOT CLEAN SOOT OFF THE WINDOWS Remember this scrawled on the notices above the drofleaf windows ? Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
benachie Posted January 18, 2013 Share Posted January 18, 2013 DO NOT CLEAN SOOT OFF THE WINDOWS Remember this scrawled on the notices above the drofleaf windows ? Brit15 ??In Scotland?? Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted January 30, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 30, 2013 If anyone is still looking for the "rare as hen's teeth" brake 3rd R4577, Modelzone is showing them as a new arrival !?! http://www.modelzone.co.uk/model-railways/Hornby-br-ex-lner-thompson-non-corridor-brake-3rd-class-coach.html. Has another batch arrived? They show the composite R4575 in stock as well, but the non-corridor 3rd is shown as discontinued. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robmcg Posted January 31, 2013 Share Posted January 31, 2013 Note to buyers outside the UK., Modelzone appear to charge £49.95 for postage to NZ ..... no other option on the checkout. Others charge £8-15. Maybe I did something wrong in the checkout procedure.... I guess I will wait... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted February 1, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 1, 2013 Note to buyers outside the UK., Modelzone appear to charge £49.95 for postage to NZ ..... no other option on the checkout. Others charge £8-15. Maybe I did something wrong in the checkout procedure.... I guess I will wait... Have you tried The Signal Box in Rochester, Rob? They are part of ModelZone so may be getting some too. They post abroad and I've never been charged anything like that (ok to the EU but still overseas). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Markeg Posted February 1, 2013 Share Posted February 1, 2013 I have bought several items from the Signal Box in Rochester Kent and visited when I was there in 2011 on my first day in UK. Anyway postage is very reasonable and great service. Modelfair charged around GBP26 to Australia when I ordered a Loco a couple of years ago. This was a little steep, so that is it with Modelfair. Yes you do have to check, I would ask first before ordereing if it is not listed or I have not used them before, such as Bromsgrove Models with a discounted Hornby Castle. Mark in OZ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Metr0Land Posted February 9, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 9, 2013 Another S&D pic which I don't think we've had? Scroll down to pic of Ivatt ex LMS 2-6-2 in section on white winter of 62/63 http://www.newman-family-tree.net/S&D/index.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted April 16, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 16, 2013 Could anyone please help? I d love a rake of these coaches, but not being an expert on matters LNE, l ve been trying to find photos to give me an idea of what a typicle rake would consist of. I m not refering to the inner london sets more a typlcle secondary service on the southern end of the ECML. Looking throught the "Peterborough North" thread l noticed a rake consisting of all three types eg brake 3rd. C/L and all 3rd, but l can not work out from the photo which one is which in the rake. I note from this thread a few members now wish they had ordered 2 x brake thrinds, so does that mean the minimum set would be a four car rake, with a brke 3rd at each end? An guidance would be of a great help as long as its not a 7 or 8 car formation as my wallet could not take the strain!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I know modellers like to buy one of each type of coach produced to form a uniform rake, but this reflects current modelling trends rather than what actually occured over 50 years ago. Hornby only produces a basic selection for obvious reasons, but there were many other variants especially when it came to brake thirds, and not all ran in every area of the Eastern or Scottish Regions. It is impossible to be precise Blobrick when it comes to coach rakes, and as usual the best source of information is photographs of the period one is modelling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Blobrick Posted April 16, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 16, 2013 I know modellers like to buy one of each type of coach produced to form a uniform rake, but this reflects current modelling trends rather than what actually occured over 50 years ago. Hornby only produces a basic selection for obvious reasons, but there were many other variants especially when it came to brake thirds, and not all ran in every area of the Eastern or Scottish Regions. It is impossible to be precise Blobrick when it comes to coach rakes, and as usual the best source of information is photographs of the period one is modelling. Hello coach Thank you for taking the time to reply. Yes I understand the urge to have "one of each" only two well!. As I am interested in the 1954-55 period l ve taken another look through the "Peterborough North" thread which has a couple of photos showing the 15:38 local to Grantham, which has a three coach consist C/L+ all 3rd + Brake 3rd. The C/L is a three compartment version whilst l understand the Hornby version is a four, but apart from that would this be faily typle for the are and date or was this an unusual rake? Bob.C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 The LNER composites had 3 first and 4 third class compartments. So the photo you mentioned just shows the opposite side of the coach. However sets often mixed the ages of carriages used, so it was possible to see sets made up of a mixture Thompson, Gresley or even pre- grouping stock. Not only that, but because sets were usually employed on out and back workings their make up was more usually Brake Third, Compo, Brake third. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 Bill touches on something that I am sure would assist those who model a partcular area or line. Trains started off made up of pre-grouping coaches and so in later years Gresley, Thompson and BR Mk.I non-corridor's replaced ailing and worn out pre group coach on a like for like basis. This is as handy as station architecture or a distinctive semaphore signal for defining your layouts pre-group origins. Some non-corridor Gresley stock was built as a block renewal for obsolete four and six wheel coaches. It seems the majority went to form trains on North British to improve Clyde Bank services and the Great Eastern for Hertford line trains and Ilford-Liverpool Street services to supplement GER stock. The Lavatory Composite type was intended for longer distance workings. But for simplicity I recommend photo albums covering the Eastern Region. I have come across a J21 hauling a neat three-coach Thompson non-corridor set on the Stainmore line consisting of a brake third, a lav-compo and another brake third. Brake thirds or brake composites were not always at the rear of a train it will be noted. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted May 14, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 14, 2013 My son's Collector magazine arrived yesterday. Among others, it says that the A versions of the Thompsons R4520A, R4521A and R4522A in crimson should be in the shops by the end of May. We'll see, but either way still no sign of the teak versions. Perhaps Hornby's new suppliers are not yet up to the more complicated livery application? EDIT: Also listed for May in the shops are the SPY Class 101 (R3047), Arriva Class 67 (R3183) and Tornado (R3206) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfield_Park Posted May 15, 2013 Share Posted May 15, 2013 Just a quick query on this subject... Did these coaches (or the Gresley equivalents for that matter) ever work out of Marylebone on the ex-GC lines? Given the abundance of R-t-R locos that are now available that worked out of Neasden in the 50s (L1, B1, Standard 4 tank etc etc) would this be an option for those on this thread who have asked about suitable workings for these locos/coaches? Most of the photos I've seen suggest ex-Met stock on anything running no further than Aylesbury, with a few Gresley corridors working on those trains too, but I remain curious nonetheless. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robertcwp Posted May 16, 2013 Share Posted May 16, 2013 Just a quick query on this subject... Did these coaches (or the Gresley equivalents for that matter) ever work out of Marylebone on the ex-GC lines? Given the abundance of R-t-R locos that are now available that worked out of Neasden in the 50s (L1, B1, Standard 4 tank etc etc) would this be an option for those on this thread who have asked about suitable workings for these locos/coaches? Most of the photos I've seen suggest ex-Met stock on anything running no further than Aylesbury, with a few Gresley corridors working on those trains too, but I remain curious nonetheless. Thanks. I don't think they worked out of Marylebone in any significant numbers. In the early 1950s the Marylebone outer suburban sets (mostly working services on the GW&GC Joint) were formed: Twin BT(6)-TL(7), Twin T(7)-T(eight), T(eight), BT(6) where the number in brackets indicates number of compartments. The TL(7) and T(7) were downgraded former composites I believe. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldfield_Park Posted May 17, 2013 Share Posted May 17, 2013 Thank you very much, Robert. I'd let the GW/GC joint slip my mind slightly when it came to LNER stock operations. Some interesting workings in that part of the world pre-Black5/4xMk1 combo and numerous 115s became the norm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrg1 Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Are there any articles on modifying these coaches for other diagrams or articulation? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted June 7, 2013 Share Posted June 7, 2013 Are the Teak Thomspon lavatories still due this month? I have a near expired voucher (end June) and I want to know whether to save it for the Thompson or buy something else! All retailers saying June, but is that June or 'maybe june'. Anyone with Trade website access? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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