West Kirby Town: narrow gauge may be coming to town.

[muddys-blues]

Well I had a fantastic couple of hours at WKT yesterday, it was such a hoot bringing those wonderful DMU's in and out of the station, & shunting his fantastic coaching stock around, the house look great in the flesh.

 

The Lenz system took some getting used to as I am used to playing with my knob on my system 

 

And I came away with a lovely purchase    .......... I don't think Rod noticed that I came away with the 115 unit in my artic survival coat, though Rod did question why I was wearing such a big coat when leaving and I had carried it in over my arm 

 

Many thanks Rod 

Edited March 9, 2017 by muddys-blues

[Dmudriver]

" I am used to playing with my knob on my system   :no:"    Too much information, Craig!!!  

 

Seriously, I'm glad you enjoyed yourself and it was a pleasure to have you round.  I've just been out to the shed to check and you were (phew!!) winding me up about the 115!!!  

 

And I also extend an invitation to anyone else (2, 3, 4 if it suits tho' 3 is probably the max) who may be in the Preston/Blackpool area to come and have a play - bring a loco (or 2), but it has to be DCC.   Obviously, arrange it beforehand and I'd suggest when it's not likely to rain as some of the layout is outside.

 

Get the track down now, Craig, so's we can see the van running.

 

Rod

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

There's been a bit of a change of stock on the layout in the last 24 hours - specifically concerning the parcels rake.  The fitters in the North West were fed up with problems with an ex-SR Bogie Van B (not being used to it's quirks) so management has agreed to re-allocate it to a depot somewhere in the South West.  Everyone should be happier now!!

 

That did, however, leave the rake a vehicle short so a newly overhauled GUV was grabbed before it could find its way to Red Bank and fitted into the rake.  Here's a couple of pics of it on its first run into WKT, en route to the distribution depot:

 

 

 

Right, enough of these flights of fancy!!  I've sold on the Bogie van B as I wanted a GUV so I went to Tower Models this afternoon (only about 15 minutes from my house!!) and bought one.

 

Getting the wrapping open to get the vehicle out was reminiscent of one of those tasks you'd do on management courses:  in a group, as a test of teamwork; individually, as a test of mental and manual dexterity!!  I managed it!! - so I might have got a good report off the course leader!!

 

However, there's a plastic packet in the wrapping containing 4 rods which look like brake rods but on closer examination are like the axle box tie-rods on the bogies.  Now I know Heljan have a reputation for bits dropping off, but all 4 of my axle box tie-rods are on and feel unlikely to come off.  Does anyone know what the spares are for?  I know I could ask on the Heljan thread, but I thought I'd ask here first.

 

It needs some weathering and I might just be tempted to have a go with some powders but I don't want it looking too different from the others  which, to be honest, were just wafted over with track dirt from an airbrush.  Watch this space.  For a while it'll look freshly overhauled!!

 

More soon.

 

Rod

[muddys-blues]

The fitters in the North West were fed up with problems with an ex-SR Bogie Van B (not being used to it's quirks) so management has agreed to re-allocate it to a depot somewhere in the South West.  Everyone should be happier now!!

 

 

You told me there was nothing wrong with the van and it ran sweetly 

 

The GUV looks nice, that should keep the Northern Grease Monkeys happy. 

 

Craig.

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

You'll have seen that all the stock on my layout is coupled using screw link or instanter couplings (plus the odd 3 link) - apart from fixed rakes which use Kadees with screws on the outer ends.  However, having had a couple of operating sessions recently I find I am getting more and more frustrated with them - mainly trying to couple between coaches with corridor connections and locos with hooks slightly under the bodywork.  Also in the limited space between tracks in the station and fiddle yard.   Possibly also because of increasing age (which I absolutely hate to admit!!!) and the use of varifocal glasses.  I'm not admitting to a bit of shakiness in the hands  

 

So ...... I've decided to go for automatic couplings.  A slight admission of failure, perhaps, but also me being a bit more realistic!!!   I've decided to go for Dinghams (assuming he's still in business as the website was last updated on 5th July 2015!!)  I've seen them in use and, blackened, they seem relatively unobtrusive.  My stock never gets turned so a loop at one end will be fine (the fiddle yard end) and I'll add protection for them at the end of the fiddle yard roads.

 

As far as I can see, they can be uncoupled manually if necessary so I won't need a lot of magnets.  I'll use permanent ones - at the ends of the station platform roads and the end of the fiddle yard roads.  As the sidings  in the station area are mainly used for storage and I hardly ever uncouple in them I wont need any there.  Most of the coupling/uncoupling is done in the platform roads so maybe a couple at the outer ends, too.  I've yet to look exactly, but that's the general thinking.

 

One advantage is that they will give me extra flexibility for loco hauled stock: with a permanent magnet in platform 2 (the far one) I'll be able to uncouple the loco in there.  This is impossible at the moment - the station canopy being in the way (it's hard enough seeing how close to the buffers an arriving train is without trying to get an uncoupler over the canopy and between the vehicles!!)

 

A question, though: where can I buy permanent magnets suitable to sit between the rails at sleeper height?  I haven't a clue where to start looking.

 

Of course, all this means that I've brought another project to the top of the "to do" list, so scenery is slipping further down the list.  However, as you'll have realised, my main pleasure is operating so that's where my priority lies.

 

Thought: maybe I could get someone in to do the scenery for me.  Has anyone any suggestions?

 

More on progress soon.

 

Rod

[Simond]

Rod,

 

Similar answer to a different question posed on WT the other day.

 

If you Google "very small magnets" there's a company selling 1mm diameter x 1mm thick, which will hold 25g of steel in a vertical pull! You probably don't want those, but they have lots of different sizes, including cut-it-yourself rubber magnets. Costs are literally pennies.

 

Hth

Simon

[D9JEF]

Rod,

 

Try this company. I buy all mine from there

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/bhp/neodymium-magnets

 

Regards

Jeff

[Dmudriver]

Thanks Simon and Jeff for your suggestions.  I've looked at a couple of sites (yours being one, Jeff) and now find myself a bit confused.

 

Mainly about the strength of the magnets.  I assume I should be looking at the lower pull strength ones?  

 

Also, though, will the magnets affect the chips in the locos/DMUs in any way?  I've seen warnings here and there about them wiping data off credit card strips, off CDs/DVDs, etc.  Are chips at risk at all?

 

I've measured Peco track and I'll go for 9mm diam x 3mm deep round magnets (the sleepers are 3mm thick and 10mm apart - at the edges, not centres.)

 

 

Rod

[Jon Fitness]

Dinghams are a good coupling as they fit to stock the same way as screw and 3 links. They can be a little fragile and it's worth beefing up the loops which also has the added benefit of making sure that they drop horizontal reliably.

We were going to use them at Saltney but too many operators were too clumsy with them. I still would use them myself if I had my own layout. The magnets we used were 20 x 6 x 1mm neo-thingy ones!

Once set up they were very reliable as long as you didn't try to demolish buffer stops with them....

JF

[Simond]

Rod

 

I don't believe that the magnets will affect your decoders. If you put one really close, it might temporarily stop it working, but I am pretty sure that when you take it away, it'll be fine. It's certainly not the same as a credit card or recording tape.

 

I do recall many years back, a pal, after a fairly liquid lunch, putting the kind of magnet it takes two hands to lift very near to his new TV. This made the picture disappear into a tiny white spot in the centre of the sceeen. He removed it, and the cricket was quite psychedelic, pink field with blue players... his wife had a spectacular and total sense of humour failure (which, given the state of inebriation, added to the general euphoria) and by 'eck, she had a temper. Happily the built in degaussing fixed the telly when it was turned on again, and marital harmony was restored

 

That said, I'd tend to keep a reasonable gap between the two. 5 to 10 mm will ensure that there's no issue at all.

Best

Simon

[Simond]

I don't know if this is literally true, but it's a great analogy

 

"There's nothing magnetic in flash memory, so [a magnet] won't do anything," says Bill Frank, executive director of the CompactFlash Association. "A magnet powerful enough to disturb the electrons in flash would be powerful enough to suck the iron out of your blood cells," says Frank.

 

I'm guessing that you don't have to worry...

 

Best

Simon

[raymw]

A magnetic field may not effect flash memory, as such, but moving a conductor through a magnetic field can generate an emf in said conductor, so drive slowly and have short wires...

[Simond]

You're right, but the magnets (and field) will be fixed in relation to the track, and the decoder is going to be 20, 30mm or more above, probably in a nicely shielded brass box...

[Dmudriver]

You're getting a bit technical for me there, lads!!

 

I'll go for the weakest pull, consistent with the size I want - I don't want anything that will hold 25Kg, for example!!!

 

Rod

[Simond]

I honestly have no idea what the couplers need, but I'm guessing the 3mm diameter, 1mm thick ones are big enough to glue down, and powerful enough to do the job.

 

Otherwise, try some of the rubber magnet and cut it to size with scissors. Much less powerful, but you can have a bigger bit!

 

You'd go mad with the 1mm ones!!!

 

Best

Simon

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

Progress is being made:  Dingham couplings ordered and paid for and 3mm deep x 3mm diam magnets also ordered and paid for (only 0.29Kg pull so shouldn't affect anything significant).

 

I only need 10 coupling sets so I wondered about fitting them on the DMUs but as they tend only to couple to each other - apart from the odd van - I decided not to.  However, that led me on to thinking about multiing-up and I don't do it often, even though it adds even more possibilities to the operation.  The reason? - difficulty coupling up!!  Here's a couple of pics of the reason why - the fronts of the 3-car 108 and the 131:

 

 

 

The hooks are too close to the buffer beam and are almost under the body.  So, alterations have been made on the 131, like this:

 

 

I've added a stop to the underframe and the result is this:

 

 

Maybe a bit too far forward but not obvious in operation and it will make coupling/uncoupling so much easier.  The question is which next?  I've a single car, a 2-car, a 3-car and a 4-car.  The Thumper's not in the equation as it's got buckeyes and can't couple to anything else.  The limit on length is 5 cars so the single car can run with any of the others but thereafter it's only the 2- + 3-cars.  As long as one set has clear couplings (like the one above), I'll be OK, so next I'll do the 3-car couplings as it's easier to glue the stop to the underframe than the 2-car (also because there's a windscreen that needs gluing back in!!)

 

Oh, the joys of a large layout and a fair bit of stock: maintenance seems never-ending and limits time for progression, but hey-ho, I enjoy it and isn't that what the hobby's all about?  If I set myself a target of finishing the layout and having that layout and all the stock running perfectly, I'd probably completely stress myself out and get no enjoyment whatsoever.  As I'm an experienced retiree, I'll do what makes me happy!!

 

More soon.

 

Rod 

 

Edit: to add  PS   I know there's a vac pipe broken on the 131 buffer beam - another job on the list!!!

Edited March 12, 2017 by Dmudriver

[Simond]

0.29kgs...

 

That's more than a standard pack of butter. (For want of a convenient comparison!)

 

Glue them down well, or they'll be leaping up & getting stuck to the axles on your stock!

 

Best

Simon

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

Some progress, but no pictures!!

 

The alterations to the DMU couplings are done.  I've done the 115 as well, as 1) the stops are fairly easy to do and 2) it makes the buffers sit in their correct position.  So it's only the 2-car that's not been altered but that can couple to any of the others now so should not be a problem and the buffers are self-contained so sit in the right place anyway.

 

The Dinghams have arrived and so have the magnets.  Both ordered on Sunday and delivered today.  Impressive.  I'm going to sit and read the Dingham instructions carefully before I touch anything!!  The magnets are quite strong but I'll test one first before I fit them all, just to be sure.

 

EDIT:  Having said no picture, I remembered I'd taken this one so thought I'd add it in.  No relevance to the content of the post, but I like it!!  Captured on the stabling point a couple of evenings ago.

 

 

More soon.

 

Rod

 

Edit: to add picture.

Edited March 14, 2017 by Dmudriver

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

I said in my last post that I'd read the Dingham instructions carefully before I started anything.  Well, I did and I did!!  The results are shown here:

 

 

I've done 10 hook and loops, which is all I need.  The top 4 have had the soft iron droppers fitted - the others will follow reasonably quickly as it's not difficult.  They're quite fiddly but an interesting and absorbing exercise.

 

Also in the picture, along the bottom are the hook and latches (see below) and the 2 kinds of wire used.  The top is the nickel silver wire that solders into the hook and on which the loop pivots and the one below is the soft iron for the droppers.  That's not all I've got left - there's more in the kit!!

 

The hook and latches are a bit more of a problem.  There's 2 kinds, 1 and 2 (reasonably logically!!).  Here's a pic of them:

 

 

Type 1 is on the left.  The loop is a pretty fine etching and the instructions say to form it, fit it to the hook and, having used pliers to flatten a piece of the n/s wire, push it through, cut it off and flatten the other side.  Now, either the wire is very hard, or my 2 sets of pliers are no good, but I couldn't do it, so I soldered the wire in.  As you can see, the latch is filled with solder: this is the second attempt, the solder being applied after fitting.  It's not too bad but it doesn't drop down too readily - which could be a bit of a disadvantage!!  The first attempt involved filling the latch with solder before I fitted it to the hook: that did not work!!  

 

Above the right hand hook is a type 2 latch which looks a bit simpler so that's for trying tomorrow.  Watch this space!!

 

I also said in my last post that I'd got the magnets, too.  These were 3mm diameter x 3mm deep.  And they wouldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding!!  (0.29 Kg pull). I tested them with a couple of DMUs running over and watching the effect on the screw couplings.  Hardly a flicker - and yes they were attractable (that's not the correct word, but it means they are attracted by magnets).  I tried 3 magnets side by side: better, but not significantly so.

 

So I bought some 10mm long x 5mm wide x 2mm deep magnets with a 1.1 Kg pull.  Much better!!  In fact, I tried a DMU over one just laid loose between the sleepers: it fairly jumped up onto the ABC gear set!!  And onto the speaker (under the chassis) next time round.  The magnet should be level with the top of the sleepers and as it's only 2mm thick, I've glued it to a 1mm thick piece of plasticard and glued that to the cork underlay.  This is how it looks:

 

 

Unpainted as yet while I test it but eventually it will have ballast put back round it and be sprayed track dirt like everything around it.  I've put it where it is so that I can uncouple stock going into either siding or even being pushed into the stabling point headshunt.  Here's a pic to show what I mean:

 

 

You'll notice it's set a bit off centre.  That's deliberate because I've found that the couplings of long wheelbase vehicles tend to overhang the centre line when coming off the curve.  The 10mm length will enable that to be covered and the straight route, too.

 

I've run 2 or 3 DMUs over it as they have speakers under the chassis.  There's no effect on the sound whatsoever, so that's one concern dealt with!

 

So, I'll do a couple more latches and then fit a couple to either the 08 or the 03 and to a couple of parcels vehicles and see how they perform.  If all is OK, I'll carry on with the lot.  So, watch this space.

 

In other news, I went to the local haberdashers a few days ago and bought some tulle for the chain link fencing  Don't hold your breath though - that could be a few weeks off!!

 

 

Rod

 

 

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

I said in my last post I'd do some testing with the Dingham couplings.  Well, I've started and here are the results.  I've used a Parkside Dundas fish van/parcels van which has been built for a while but needs to be painted  - when I get the time!!!

 

First thing was that the hooks were a sloppy fit in the buffer beam, so I used a couple of the items on the etch.  Probably not the correct ones (there's only these and oval ones on the etch) but who's going to notice??  (Yes, I know, someone - or two - will!!}

 

The first one shows the hook and loop.  They're fitted in place with Blutac, which holds them in place but is hopeless if you try and pull it!!

 

 

The next is the other end of the van, showing the hook and latch.  Actually, the vehicle is the wrong way round for the layout, but it's easier for photographing:

 

 

Finally, the loop over the magnet, showing that it works!!

 

 

I think the soft iron is probably a bit higher from the track than recommended, but the magnet certainly attracts it!!

 

Next to test is the Heljan fuel tanker and - guess what!! - another buffer head dropped off so that is now having to be superglued back on.  Another fixed buffer!!

 

After the fuel tanker, I'll test a parcels vehicle with a corridor connection.  Then I'll check the coupling/uncoupling of those vehicles and, if that is satisfactory, I'll blacken all the couplings and fix them permanently to the vehicles.  At the same time, I'll install the magnets, unless the tests show problems with the fixed magnet causing uncoupling when being pulled.

 

In the last post, I also mentioned that there were 2 types of latch.  I've finally gone for type 1 as type 2 was a real so-and-so to fit and get right.  Actually, I never did get it right and type 1 wasn't that difficult after all.

 

So, again, watch this space.

 

Rod

 

 

 

[Dmudriver]

Well, well, well!  I have to admit I am very pleasantly surprised by these couplings!!  I've (obviously!) not used them before and I was a bit unsure but, having fitted them to the Heljan tanker and tested the 2 vehicles together, I am convinced this is the way forward - subject to what I find with the corridor vehicles.  (I'm concerned the corridor connections may hinder the lifting of the loop.  However, further testing will show whether that concern is justified). 

 

I've run the van and the tanker over the fixed magnet and one fear was dispelled: when being pulled, the loop is not attempting to lift - even when the light(ish) van was trailing at slow speed - so they do not uncouple.

 

I've found the uncoupling is more effective when the loop is at the trailing end of the vehicle which, fortunately, is the way I'd planned to set them up, anyway.   It lifts up slower and over a longer distance than in the opposite direction where the lift is more of a quick flick: for some reason the latter doesn't always come to rest on top of the latch but recouples.   However, as I'm very unlikely to want to uncouple when moving in that direction, it's not a pressing concern.

 

One thing that is important, as Jon has pointed out, is setting them up correctly and consistently.  They're only held in place with Blutack and if the loop was too low it tended to flick up over the latch instead of sliding under.  Also, on the S bend in the sidings they get very close to uncoupling if they're not exactly set up on the middle line of the vehicle.  Fortunately, I know a man who's made some jigs, so I'll get some advice off him.

 

Fitting them to the vehicles is another interesting aspect of the exercise.  The Parkside Dundas van was relatively easy: the Heljan tanker less so.  The coupling tail is square and the thickness is less than the height of the Dingham - cue opening out and finding the buffer beam is metal and there's a plastic plug underneath!!  I got it sorted and then checked the GUV and find the coupling is completely enclosed: more exploratory work to do.  Then there's the coaches - and the 37 - and DJH 03 which seems to use Heljan couplings.  Hey-ho, at least I'm not getting bored and my brain power is being challenged.

 

Apologies for rambling on a bit but I hope my experiences may be useful to others contemplating using Dinghams.

 

More soon.

 

Rod

Edited March 30, 2017 by Dmudriver

[Dmudriver]

Evening all.

 

A quick update.  This is turning out to be more of an exercise than I bargained for!!  Not that I am complaining - I am thoroughly enjoying the challenges involved. 

 

I'm on to the Heljan Mark 1s.  Having been surprised by the metal and plastic buffer beam on the tanker (successfully dealt with), I was pleased to find the Mark 1 buffer beams are all plastic.  The big surprise was that the coupling is a few millimetres below the centre line of the buffers as, having got the Dingham hook and latch in place where the old coupling was and tried to couple the van to it, the loop on the van just went straight over the top!!

 

I got that sorted by raising it to the correct height and then found that the latch won't operate correctly as it catches on the corridor connection floor!!  I've not sorted that yet as I want to see how the loop works at the other end of the rake: then I'll decide how to proceed.

 

Added to this is the fact that the buffers do not extend to 12.5mm from the buffer beam but seem to be modelled in the retracted position, which won't work with the couplings.  I have extended them, but it's something else unexpected!!

 

I have a feeling Dinghams weren't designed for modern image stock!!  A quick look at some pictures on the website of the layout they were originally designed for shows steam engines, freight stock and non-corridor coaches - all, I think, pregrouping or private owner.

 

In no way am I criticizing Dingham couplings at all but I do feel like a bit of a pioneer.  I'll email the designer, Trevor Shaw, and discuss it with him but I could go into detail on how I proceed (if anyone's interested) on here or start a separate thread.  Any suggestions?

 

It's certainly keeping the grey matter churning - and testing the manual dexterity!!

 

More soon.

 

Rod

 

PS  Just as a bit of light relief - the manual dexterity doesn't apply to my keyboard skills.  On a QWERTY keyboard the f and g are next to each other so the first "buffer" appeared as "b*gger" - and the spell checker didn't highlight it!!  I only saw it as I read the draft before posting!!!

Edited April 2, 2017 by Dmudriver

[leopardml2341]

Rod,

 

What advantages do Dinghams offer over Spratt & Winkle?

 

Rgds,

[Jintyman]

Evening all.

 

A quick update.  This is turning out to be more of an exercise than I bargained for!!  Not that I am complaining - I am thoroughly enjoying the challenges involved. 

 

I'm on to the Heljan Mark 1s.  Having been surprised by the metal and plastic buffer beam on the tanker (successfully dealt with), I was pleased to find the Mark 1 buffer beams are all plastic.  The big surprise was that the coupling is a few millimetres below the centre line of the buffers as, having got the Dingham hook and latch in place where the old coupling was and tried to couple the van to it, the loop on the van just went straight over the top!!

 

I got that sorted by raising it to the correct height and then found that the latch won't operate correctly as it catches on the corridor connection floor!!  I've not sorted that yet as I want to see how the loop works at the other end of the rake: then I'll decide how to proceed.

 

Added to this is the fact that the buffers do not extend to 12.5mm from the buffer beam but seem to be modelled in the retracted position, which won't work with the couplings.  I have extended them, but it's something else unexpected!!

 

I have a feeling Dinghams weren't designed for modern image stock!!  A quick look at some pictures on the website of the layout they were originally designed for shows steam engines, freight stock and non-corridor coaches - all, I think, pregrouping or private owner.

 

In no way am I criticizing Dingham couplings at all but I do feel like a bit of a pioneer.  I'll email the designer, Trevor Shaw, and discuss it with him but I could go into detail on how I proceed (if anyone's interested) on here or start a separate thread.  Any suggestions?

 

It's certainly keeping the grey matter churning - and testing the manual dexterity!!

 

More soon.

 

Rod

 

PS  Just as a bit of light relief - the manual dexterity doesn't apply to my keyboard skills.  On a QWERTY keyboard the f and g are next to each other so the first "buffer" appeared as "b*gger" - and the spell checker didn't highlight it!!  I only saw it as I read the draft before posting!!!

 

 

You must have the same fat finger that I have Rod!!!!

 

Hope you get the Dinghams sorted. I've heard such good reviews about them, but I understand your issue with the corridor connections.

Could you cut away the floor of the corridor connections to allow the free movement of the bar? From a side view the missing bit may not be seen as easily.

 

All the best

Jinty

[Junctionmad]

I'm trialing Dinghams in 00. The two issues I've found are the loop pivot has a lot of slop and is tricky on bogie freight due to the swing of the buffer beam on corners

 

I'm not yet convinced