Dmudriver Posted March 20, 2021 Author Share Posted March 20, 2021 Hi all. From recent posts, I've been taking comfort from the fact that I'm not the only one suffering with physical ailments!! However, I take no comfort at all in the fact there are some of you worse off than me: I feel for you. On the positive side, though, we are all carrying on with our hobby pretty much regardless - onwards and upwards! On which subject ........... I went into the shed this afternoon planning to make a video of stock operating through the 2 new points. But .... I got sidetracked by looking at the placement of the 3 I have left to do: so I ended up adding the common crossings to the 3 track bases and then setting them up in place. This necessitated chopping some sleeper ends and cleaning up the old ballast which was not allowing the bases to sit properly. Here's where I got to: first, from the headshunt end: and second, from the stabling point end: They're lining up quite nicely. It's quite a fascinating job I've given myself - a bit like doing a jigsaw in that I'm fitting the new points into existing track and Tortoise point motor placements. I am enjoying it, though!! I'm not sure I'll get much done tomorrow as I'm busy elsewhere but in the next couple of days I should make more progress. So, ..... more soon!! Watch this space. Rod 17 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmudriver Posted March 23, 2021 Author Share Posted March 23, 2021 And here's the progress from Saturday. The point into the headshunt is now constructed - it just needs wiring up and the blades soldering to the tiebar. That's tomorrow's job - unless a walk on the beach intervenes!! Here's how it looks tonight - from opposite ends: I can't believe how much I am enjoying doing these: I'm taking my time and making sure everything is as good as I can get it. The building is enjoyable but so is seeing how they look and how stock runs through them. Specifically, I've been filing the blades down further: they come ready machined but I aim to get them as thin as possible so there is no chance of any gauge narrowing. More soon. Rod 13 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joner Posted March 23, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 23, 2021 This is really looking great and I'm pleased your finding enjoyment in your builds. I for one can't wait to see trains running again. Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmudriver Posted March 24, 2021 Author Share Posted March 24, 2021 (edited) I've soldered the blades to the tie bars on the third point and bonded the blades to the stock rails. It's now in position but held in place only by rail joiners as I may need to take it out again to build the other 2 Y points: I hope not but I'll just be sure!! I've done a very quick video of the 131 running through each point. It's nowhere near my best - I used my phone camera, held in my left hand while my right hand held the controller and operated the point switches!! But at least you can see how smoothly it runs. The unit is a bit slow taking off for some reason - I'll look at that when I've done the points. It gets a push at one stage but that's because it got isolated as I left the plastic packge you can just see across one of the running rails!!! Once the 2x Y points are finished and working I'll do a "proper" video. More soon. Rod Edited March 24, 2021 by Dmudriver 18 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwr Posted March 25, 2021 Share Posted March 25, 2021 I tell you what Rob, that unit runs a treat through those points. Proper Job mate! Paul R 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joner Posted March 26, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 26, 2021 Wow. That unit runs through there as if it's fexitrack, really smoothly, no clunking. Food for thought there I think. Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmudriver Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 12 hours ago, Joner said: Wow. That unit runs through there as if it's fexitrack, really smoothly, no clunking. Food for thought there I think. Paul I agree it does sound good, Paul, but we need to bear in mind that the points are not fastened down hard (although they lie quite flat so there's no problem) nor are they ballasted yet. I suspect that ballasting will have an effect on the sound level but how much I really don't know at this stage, As I say - quite often!! - watch this space!! Rod 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Rod, what do you use to glue down your ballast? I started with time-honoured PVA and soon realised that it turns granite green, and sets like concrete. I’ve used watered down latex ever since, it’s much more flexible, and doesn’t stain your stone. I got the Mapei stuff in a 2.5 litre plastic bottle from Screwfix. hth Simon 1 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmudriver Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 2 hours ago, Simond said: Rod, what do you use to glue down your ballast? I started with time-honoured PVA and soon realised that it turns granite green, and sets like concrete. I’ve used watered down latex ever since, it’s much more flexible, and doesn’t stain your stone. I got the Mapei stuff in a 2.5 litre plastic bottle from Screwfix. hth Simon I've used the time-honoured method of watered down PVA - 50/50 but I'm not sure that in future I'll use it that strong again as it can be a bit of a b***er to get up!! I'm not too concerned about the colour it goes as I always spray the track with track dirt. I like the idea of the latex but I've not got that much to do and I've a load of PVA left. As I say though, probably not as strong as I've used it before. Rod 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmudriver Posted March 27, 2021 Author Share Posted March 27, 2021 A bit more progress - eventually!! Why eventually? Well, I'm building the first Y point and had got the stock rails cut, together with the short filler pieces of straight track base. When I came to glue them down, there were a couple of chairs next to the straight bases that wouldn't stick down. I thought I'd cracked it so then went to try the point in it's place on the layout and the rails were higher than the track that was already down (and the point and track I'd taken up fitted perfectly!!) Cue the air going blue and a fair bit of head scratching and then I solved it. The track bases I'd used were thicker than those on the point bases and the fill in bits I'd used before. How, I don't know, but I've emailed Mike. Fortunately, I had another straight base which was the original thickness and once I'd used that everything fitted OK. Until, that is, I came to slide the rail joiners on and found that a couple of the original rail ends had been soldered previously and the solder left in the web prevented the joiners sliding on!!! The air got blue again but I managed to saw the offending ends off without causing much problem to the fit of the point I'd built. So, after pretty plain sailing with the 3 straight points, this Y caused some problems!! But not only that, the track base for the point is a bit skew whiff. I thought I could ignore it and build the point based on the "proper" side, but couldn't. Here's a pic of what I mean: The left hand rail has a slight reverse curve in it. I assumed I could set everything up from the right hand rail but .... no!! Here's a pic of the (almost) finished point: The curve is there (ignore the loose bit of filler in the foreground). I've run a bogie of the 205 through it and all seems OK but symmetrically it doesn't look too good, particularly after the 3 straight points. However, if the stock runs through it OK I'll leave it as when operating it's sideways on and not obvious. Even then, it's in a siding and the tracks there are generally not laid to main line standards so it shouldn't look out of place. Time and testing will tell!! I've still got the blades to solder to the tie bar but I'd had 2 glasses of wine with my tea and I didn't want to risk touching a slide chair with a hot iron. How do I know it's a problem? ......... I've got the T-shirt!! More soon. Rod 3 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnaby Posted March 27, 2021 Share Posted March 27, 2021 Good work there Rod but it does seem a great pity that the reason you wanted to change the Peco points was to get a better truer flow to the point work and your "Y" point is flawed? But then a shunter-man leaning on his pole looking the other way at midnight "aint gonna" notice it. Best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
47606odin Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 That reverse curve on the point looks fine to me, and points were given all sorts of flowing geometry so as long as the siding flows off the point then it will look natural Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted March 28, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 28, 2021 Presume the other side worked fine - is the base designed with a reverse curve just on one side? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted March 28, 2021 Share Posted March 28, 2021 (edited) Rod, you'll probably be able to make it work, but my suspicion is that you need a steeper crossing. The picture from the siding doesn’t include the rails, but if the webs between the sleepers are an indication, then I think I’d see if you can change it, as it’ll niggle... it should be possible to measure it with three rulers. If you align two of them with the crossing track, and ensure a measurement “zero” at the cross, you could measure the gap, eg 100mm from the crossing, that’ll enable you work out the crossing angle, hopefully you can get one (or make one, it’s fiddly but really not difficult) that fits a bit better. I reckon you’d be fine with the timbering you have. cheers Simon Edited March 28, 2021 by Simond 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmudriver Posted March 28, 2021 Author Share Posted March 28, 2021 And more .....!! After thinking about it overnight I decided that as the other points looked so good, I didn't want the Y points to spoil the whole exercise. I rang Mike today - and got him on a Sunday!! He had a look in his computer files and it's to do with the Templot drawing. Apparently curved or Y points are made from straight ones and then curved: these had curved a bit too much!! He's going to redo the bases and send me replacements. However, I did solder the point blades to the tie bar and then ran the 205 through the point to the stabling point. Here's the unit in the siding: And, in case you hadn't noticed the extremely low-tech method of securing the blades in position, here's a close-up!! I've done a couple of short videos of the unit running over the points - they're here: I've since fitted a wire to operate the left hand point by the Tortoise motor and secured it with push fit nails (they stop it moving sideways!!). It just needs wiring up now. I won't do any more to the Y points until I get the new bases, etc from Mike. More soon. Rod 10 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted March 28, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Dmudriver said: He had a look in his computer files and it's to do with the Templot drawing. Apparently curved or Y points are made from straight ones and then curved: these had curved a bit too much! That’s because on the prototype, a Y turnout as such doesn’t exist. Templot follows prototype practice, who you can have a RH turnout on a LH curve, and try to balance the the effective radius of the RH branch to match the main route, but the switches will cause the sort of problem you saw. It is possible - both on the prototype and in Templote, to combine a single switch from a mirror image turnout, but you have to be careful otherwise you can create a pinch-point in the gauge. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted March 29, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2021 Hi Rod, Whoever did the Templot design for this has failed to change the setting to a curviform V-crossing: That's a regular V-crossing which you use when the turnout is forming part of a crossover with another turnout. For Y-turnouts in yards and sidings you need a curviform V-crossing so that the roads can diverge properly. There's a green button at the top left of the Templot screen for changing from one to the other. Here's a video explaining the full difference and when to use each type: https://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=pu2F-wveux5-EWGYuqPd3g2 cheers, Martin. 1 9 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwr Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 3 hours ago, martin_wynne said: Hi Rod, Whoever did the Templot design for this has failed to change the setting to a curviform V-crossing: That's a regular V-crossing which you use when the turnout is forming part of a crossover with another turnout. For Y-turnouts in yards and sidings you need a curviform V-crossing so that the roads can diverge properly. There's a green button at the top left of the Templot screen for changing from one to the other. Here's a video explaining the full difference and when to use each type: https://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=pu2F-wveux5-EWGYuqPd3g2 cheers, Martin. Martin This makes absolute sense when you explain it! Paul R Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmudriver Posted March 29, 2021 Author Share Posted March 29, 2021 5 hours ago, martin_wynne said: Hi Rod, Whoever did the Templot design for this has failed to change the setting to a curviform V-crossing: That's a regular V-crossing which you use when the turnout is forming part of a crossover with another turnout. For Y-turnouts in yards and sidings you need a curviform V-crossing so that the roads can diverge properly. There's a green button at the top left of the Templot screen for changing from one to the other. Here's a video explaining the full difference and when to use each type: https://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=pu2F-wveux5-EWGYuqPd3g2 cheers, Martin. Hi Martin. Thanks for that. The point is to replace a Peco Y point so the crossing angle is fixed - as I understand it. Does your comment still apply to that? Rod 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted March 29, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 29, 2021 20 minutes ago, Dmudriver said: Thanks for that. The point is to replace a Peco Y point so the crossing angle is fixed - as I understand it. Does your comment still apply to that? Hi Rod, Yes. Changing the type of V-crossing doesn't change the angle of the turnout. The overall length may change by a fraction. The type of V-crossing determines where the branching road goes after passing through the crossing (frog). It can curve back towards the main road (regular V-crossing, for crossovers), or away from it (curviform V-crossing for yards and junctions). There are other options too, but those are the main ones. More explanation in this video: https://flashbackconnect.com/Movie.aspx?id=pu2F-wveux5-EWGYuqPd3g2 or ask on the Templot Club forum if you need more details. To make a perfectly symmetrical Y-turnout there is a trick you can use in Templot, see: https://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3456&forum_id=22#p27233 cheers, Martin. 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dmudriver Posted March 30, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted March 30, 2021 There will now be a short intermission ........... !! The 3rd point is fitted, wired in, sleepers stained and is fully operational. There's not much more I can do on that front until I get the redesigned Ys from Mike. (I suppose I could hand paint the rail sides!!) At the moment the weather is that good I feel the garden calling - not my preferred pastime but it needs doing!! Here's a pic of the point in place: More soon - hopefully!! Rod 23 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dmudriver Posted April 2, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted April 2, 2021 On 30/03/2021 at 12:12, Dmudriver said: (I suppose I could hand paint the rail sides!!) I have done now!! I've had a couple of play sessions and thought it was about time to do a bit more work on the layout so I did the above. Just need to order some ballast now - that's on the to-do list for this evening! Here's how they look now: I did most of it yesterday but then today I noticed bits I'd missed - where shiny bits of rail were obvious (mostly at the sides of chairs). So I've touched them up with a fine brush today. It's going to look alright!! When I come to spray the track dirt eventually I'll not do it too heavily to make it match the rest: a lightish touch to show that there has been recent p-way work. More soon. Rod 19 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dmudriver Posted April 4, 2021 Author Share Posted April 4, 2021 Today was going to be an nice easy stress-free day. Well, that was the plan!! After a lazy morning I decided to have a bit of a play day. It was going fine until I found 2 of the new points not working properly: the cause was some of the paint from the rail sides had got onto the slide chairs, preventing smooth movement. Not helped by the mistakes I made by touching a couple of them with the soldering iron fixing the tie bars!! Sorted by scraping and filing, but I'll replace them tomorrow as I've plenty of spare slide chairs. (they're reasonably easy to get off the timber sleepers.) Then the 2 Parcels units, 128 and 131, wouldn't work properly: I could get some lights and odd sounds but no engines and no movement. They were shunted to one side so I could carry on playing - until about 3pm when the wind got up a bit and it went rather cold!! So, all the stock back in the shed and I set to work on the 128 and 131. Nothing obvious so I did a reset (CV8 = 8): absolutely nothing then!! - no lights or odd sounds, nothing!! Taken into the house where it was warmer and set to to check the wiring: got the body off the 128, all was fine. Tried the DC controller and they ran and I got the white lights, so why not working on DCC? Had another brew and did some internet surfing. Whilst having my tea (dinner/supper/evening meal depending which part of the country you're from ) it struck me that after a reset, the address goes back to 3!! Doh!! Tried them again on 3 and they work!!! So tomorrow or the next day there's a lot of function mapping to redo as I'd set them up to work in multiple with other units and for advanced consisting with each other, as well as aiming for consistency of functions across the fleet. Fortunately I've listed everything I did. Not quite the day I expected!! The joys of railway modelling!! More soon. Rod 4 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Regularity Posted April 4, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 4, 2021 20 minutes ago, Dmudriver said: So tomorrow or the next day there's a lot of function mapping to redo as I'd set them up to work in multiple with other units and for advanced consisting with each other, as well as aiming for consistency of functions across the fleet. Fortunately I've listed everything I did. A Sprog, or similar, and decoder pro, or similar, would be your friend here... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted April 5, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 5, 2021 9 hours ago, Dmudriver said: Not quite the day I expected!! The joys of railway modelling!! I got up early on Saturday and spent pretty much the entire day lining a 14xx I had repainted green. In the end I wasnt that happy with it. A day like that leaves you with a niggly frustration I find. House needs a good tidy up so packing everything away today and will have a few days off to reset! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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