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West Kirby Town: Parcels traffic has increased.


Dmudriver
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Hi Rod,

Just spent a very pleasant and enjoyable 20 minutes catching up on West Kirkby. Well done, your doing well! It all looks good, very impressed with the outdoor woodwork - wish my joinery skills were half as good!

 

I must also say thank you, as I'm planning my new O gauge layout at the moment and was working on the premise of either loco+4 or loco+5 for the main station area, your shot of the 50+4 in the fiddle yard has given me an idea of the length and how it looks!

 

Are you going to keep the control inside the shed, or have a 'plug in' for your DCC controller around the fiddle yard area?

 

Rich

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Hi Rod,

Just spent a very pleasant and enjoyable 20 minutes catching up on West Kirkby. Well done, your doing well! It all looks good, very impressed with the outdoor woodwork - wish my joinery skills were half as good!

 

I must also say thank you, as I'm planning my new O gauge layout at the moment and was working on the premise of either loco+4 or loco+5 for the main station area, your shot of the 50+4 in the fiddle yard has given me an idea of the length and how it looks!

 

Are you going to keep the control inside the shed, or have a 'plug in' for your DCC controller around the fiddle yard area?

 

Rich

 

Hi Rich

 

Thanks for the comments. I have to be honest, I did have help with the joinery, and it seems to have paid off: up until last night, the inside of the extension was dry as a bone even after all that rain we've had.

 

I'll have 3 "plug ins" - one at each end inside the shed and, yes, one at the fiddle yard. The control panel for the fiddle yard points is inside the shed, so I can set the routes into and out of the FY. You will have seen that I've got Tortoise motors in the shed area, but Peco in the fiddle yard. An advantage of Peco point motors is that you can manually change the points when shunting, which is what will be done in the fiddle yard.

 

Best of luck with your layout. Will you be starting a thread?

 

 

Rod

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This may be of interest, a small section of an LMS 1934 plan for the electrification

 

post-6662-0-44982200-1348663056.jpg

 

Fascinating, this, beast. It took me a few moments to get my head around the layout, but is that a siding in front of the signal box? I wondered about the loco release crossovers in the platforms, but I assume they were for freight trains using the yard.

 

The down inner home gantry looks rather nice: was that how it actually was before the Joint station closed? Could be a nice challenge for Jon F!!

 

What do the symbols marked LOC plus a number indicate?

 

Finally, there seems to be a signal controlling the up direction, but alongside the down line on the down side of the bridge. It looks like a shunt signal. Am I correct and, if so, what was it used for?

 

As I said, fascinating.

 

Rod

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LOC = location, it would be a wooden "box" on posts, where electrickery was housed.

 

Remember this would be the old Wirral Railway West Kirby box rather than the LMS one which replaced it on electrification.

 

The shunt signal would be for set back moves from the up to various places.

 

The inner home was similar, iirc it was slightly different in form, when the joint line went - Keith will probably know better

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I'll have 3 "plug ins" - one at each end inside the shed and, yes, one at the fiddle yard. The control panel for the fiddle yard points is inside the shed, so I can set the routes into and out of the FY. You will have seen that I've got Tortoise motors in the shed area, but Peco in the fiddle yard. An advantage of Peco point motors is that you can manually change the points when shunting, which is what will be done in the fiddle yard.

 

Sounds a logical idea. I'm using the Digitrax DCC system, so the intention is to have a local panel for the fiddle yard with the diagram connected through a CML TowerMaster card (ie acting as an interface), but I have the advantage that my layout will not be outside permanently. I must admit I started with DCC because I love electronics! I'm not saying im any good! But i love electronics!!

 

Best of luck with your layout. Will you be starting a thread?

 

Thanks. I'm in two minds to be honest! One side says my modelling skills are not up to the standards of the majority on here, so might not start a thread as Im not sure it would be of interest to anyone ... the other side of me says, once i've got the baseboards finished (I'm half way through at the moment) and got the track down then start at that point, as there is then something to look at!

 

Its going to be a bit of a beast I think - I want the ability to run 4/5 coach trains and equivalent length freights so it works out as a 38' x 12' layout with a rough running line length of around 100', or a scale three quarters of a mile - although part of that will be fiddle yards etc...! Which means in the main it will only be erected on good weather days as there is no where in the house thats big enough! I'm planning on producing a small fiddle yard board so that I could erect about three of the 4' boards inside the house and run them, so it will be two versions of the same layout! Well thats the plan anyway! I keep tweaking the design in Templot at the moment! *If* it ever reached exhibition standard it would be nice to take it out a couple of times a year, but its probably going to be too big for any exhibition manager to be interested!!! Anyway, i'll shut up before I hijack your thread!!!! :)

 

Cheers

Rich

Edited by MarshLane
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Just a bit of an update - to say there's not really much to update!! The weather has been so bad I've not been able to do much outside. I did, though, manage to get the fiddle yard pointwork all joined up, but haven't been able to fasten it down yet!!

 

I've been spending my time rechipping my Ivatt 2-6-2T and fitting a new motor/gearbox to my 3-car 108, together with putting a chip and 2 speakers (one in each power car) in that unit. Also fitting the rear power car lights to work from the chip in the front one. {Needs 4 microconnectors in total - 2 for speaker, 2 for lights). Hopefully it will be ready to run on "Apethorne Junction" at Manchester this weekend.

 

If you read this, Rich, (MarshLane) I do wonder how many days you will get to operate (play with??) your layout outdoors, based on this year's weather (I didn't use the word "summer" deliberately!!). You don't have a large carport/leanto at all, do you?

 

The forecast for tomorrow isn't too bad, so fingers crossed I might get some work done outside - if the 108 is finished. So I'll get off here and go and do it!!!

 

Rod

Edited by Dmudriver
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Hi all.

 

Progress again! I didn't get much done after my last post as I did spend time on the 108, then the weather was bad, then Saturday and Sunday were spent at the Manchester exhibition. However, yesterday and today have been good weather-wise and I've got all the outside track down. I continued the double track through the shed wall and onto the shelf outside. Pic below:

 

post-7571-0-67584500-1349814634_thumb.jpg

 

You can see through the window where the track continues along the shelf. (I've since added an extra sleeper into the gap in the nearer track just before the hole in the wall.

 

The next pic gives a general view of the outside section of the layout. You can just see the front shutters lying on top of the layout.

 

post-7571-0-31416500-1349814873_thumb.jpg

 

The fiddle yard starts at a double slip and has 4 sidings, as I've indicated in a previous post. This is a closeup of the fiddle yard arrangement:

 

post-7571-0-56966900-1349815072_thumb.jpg

 

As can be seen, I wasn't quite so particular with my tracklaying in the fiddle yard!! The right hand road bears testament to that!!. There will be enough clearance, but the tracks are not too firmly fastened down, so I can move them if I have to. It probably looks worse than it actually is, as the photo was taken on a long lens and there is some foreshortening. We are in fact looking at about 13' in length.

 

The 2 roads to the right are for locos. I've pinned the track dowm mostly using one pin in the middle of the track. Conventional wisdom seems to say that you should put 2 in the outer ends of the sleepers, but 1) the track is not fastened down tightly and 2) 0 gauge sleepers are quite thick and are unlikely to distort by curling upwards at the edges. On the station part of the layout I have glued the cork and the track down, but I have found it is noisy, so outside I have stapled the cork and pinned thetrack. I have run a loco as far as the double slip on both tracks and it is much quieter.

 

I've just noticed the short ruler left in the 4 foot in the 3rd pic. Oooops! I thought I'd tidied everything up!! I've also found one drawback of the arrangement with the roof of the layout: the front of it and the top of my head are just at the same height!!! And I've no hair to protect the top of my head!! So I now wear a baseball cap, just in case!!

 

The next job is to fit the track wiring and I plan to tackle that tomorrow. Then I've got to fit the point motors and wire them up. Finally, fit a fascia panel to plug in a throttle at the fiddle yard end of the layout. Hopefullt it won't be too long before I can start doing some operating (well, let's be honest, playing!!!)

 

Comments/queries, as always, welcome!! More soon.

 

Rod

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Hi Rod,

 

looking great, you'll soon have the stock rattling in and out and then start thinking of an extension!

 

cheers

 

Mike

 

No room for extension lengthwise, Mike, but I suppose I could go underground at the fiddle yard end!!!

 

 

Rod

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If you read this, Rich, (MarshLane) I do wonder how many days you will get to operate (play with??) your layout outdoors, based on this year's weather (I didn't use the word "summer" deliberately!!). You don't have a large carport/leanto at all, do you?

 

Hi Rod, looking good! Whose is the double slip on the outside section? Presume its a Marcway?

 

Thanks for your comments, yes I had thought of that and have been trying to convince myself that it would be ok, or to get a couple of gazebos to cover it in dodgy weather! But you've actually made me stop and think! Never a good sign!

 

As a matter of interest, what point motors are you planning on using for the outside section? Something I've always thought off with outdoor layouts, is how does damp affect soldered connections?

 

Rich

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Hi Rod, looking good! Whose is the double slip on the outside section? Presume its a Marcway?

 

Thanks for your comments, yes I had thought of that and have been trying to convince myself that it would be ok, or to get a couple of gazebos to cover it in dodgy weather! But you've actually made me stop and think! Never a good sign!

 

As a matter of interest, what point motors are you planning on using for the outside section? Something I've always thought off with outdoor layouts, is how does damp affect soldered connections?

 

Rich

If I'm not mistaken that's a Peco double slip

 

Hi Rich and Mark.

 

Yes, Mark, you're dead right - that is a Peco double slip.

 

As for point motors, Rich, I'm going to use Peco. I've used them before - inside and outside - and I've had little trouble outdoors. Mainly the damp affecting the moving parts, but a squirt of WD40 has cured that. The damp has not affected any of the soldered joints at all - provided you do a decent solder job on them to start with!

 

Rod

Edited by Dmudriver
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Hi all

 

I've made more progress!! I had some help from one of my pals at the model railway club on Wednesday: we fixed a problem on the club layout and then came out to work on mine (on what is normally a working day at the club!!)

 

The outside tracks are now all electrified and tested, using my Ivatt tank - and working. There are a couple of dead spots on the point and double slip frogs, but those will be cured when I fit the point motors and microswitches.

 

I've aimed to keep everything above baseboard level on this outside section of the layout - last time I had wires and point motors under the boards and they were awkward to get at - plus they attracted spiders and various other insect life!! I've taken some pics of where I'm up to, so here's the first:

 

post-7571-0-05204100-1350062207_thumb.jpg

 

It shows the bus wires on the left coming from under the board in the shed, over the top of the entrance to the shed and then running along the back of the layout.

 

The second gives a general view of what the wiring in the fiddle yard area looks like:

 

post-7571-0-34823000-1350062364_thumb.jpg

 

Yes, you can see all the wiring, but that does not bother me to be honest, as it is the fiddle yard, not part of the scenic section. Admittedly, the bus wires (and the point motor wires later) are visible on the outer scenic (or - "eventually to be sceniced") section but they will be hidden behind scenery of some sort. I've used brown and blue wire for the bus bars, but the "droppers" are either red and blue (in the shed) or purple and blue outside. I used red in the shed as I had it left over from the last layout and purple outside as my supplier had no red left when I needed it: so, as purple has some red in it, I bought that.

 

The third pic is a close-up of some of the wiring. I've bonded the rails in the fiddle yard together, so I have to fit less droppers. I've only done this here, the rest of the layout has droppers from every section of rail. You will note that some of the wire is soldered to the inside of the track. I'm quite happy doing this, provided you keep the wire and the solder within the web of the rail: that way wheels do not foul on them. It's so much easier than trying to get to the far side of the rail in a confined space. I only do this in the fiddle yard or hidden areas, elsewhere the wire is soldered to the outside of the rail, except in extremely tight circumstances, where I'd likely do some damage otherwise. Apart from the end of the bus bars as shown in this pic, the droppers are soldered to the bus bars (I've used chocolate blocks inside) but I needed my 75W iron to get a decent joint: the 25W didn't want to know!! (see 2nd pic).

 

post-7571-0-71084400-1350063359_thumb.jpg

 

This section did cause me some amusement. Maybe I was getting too cold, but I'd fitted the wiring and was congratulating myself on how neat a job I'd made of it, but then I realised I'd soldered the purple wire to the same rail as the blue!!! [if you look closely, you will see areas of fresh solder a couple of sleepers away from where the blue wires are soldered.] I rebuked myself and the words I used are best paraphrased by Captain Mainwaring's "you stupid boy"!!!!

 

I am aiming to put the wiring at the back of the layout in a conduit when it's finished, but that's for later. Now to prepare the point motors for fitting tomorrow (weather permitting!)

 

Rod

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Hi all.

 

This last few days I've made quite a lot of progress, so here goes!!!!

 

The fiddle yard point motors have been fitted and wired up - and tested, and all works as it should. These are a couple of views of how the fiddle yard now looks:

 

post-7571-0-50448800-1350588702_thumb.jpg

 

This one a closer look at the point motors: the 2 points on the right hand roads are hand operated when shunting the fiddle yard locally. The intention is that the far one will always be left in the position shown as the "normal" position.

 

post-7571-0-78079400-1350588802_thumb.jpg

 

I accept there are a lot of wires visible, but as I've said before, I want them all within the covered area, and they don't interfere with running, anyway, so I'm happy. There's the added advantage that fault finding will be easier if required!! I've added a fascia panel for hand held throttles: this is again inside and the wire, to keep it out of the way of the trains, is suspended on cup hooks, above the tracks!!

 

post-7571-0-26413700-1350589054_thumb.jpg

 

There are 4 or 5 more droppers to do on the main line out of the shed - that's one of tomorrow's jobs.

 

So then it was "play" time!! The first train over the new track was the ex-GWR inspection saloon, propelled by a rather grubby 37. This pic shows it just leaving the station area. Note the Preservation Group have arrived and have started installing a water tank!!

 

post-7571-0-38534500-1350589381_thumb.jpg

 

Then the train is captured entering onto the new track outside the shed:

 

post-7571-0-89804800-1350589537_thumb.jpg

 

Again, more wiring, but this section will be hidden behind scenery - eventually!!

 

Activity in the station area as the 03 shunter positions the rake of Mark 1s in platform 1 for haulage by 37039 in the background:

 

post-7571-0-39125200-1350589687_thumb.jpg

 

Finally, a Class 108 DMU leaves platform 2 for Birkenhead - that's what the destination blind says!! Again, there's evidence of the Preservation Group's activities - they've erected an ex-LNWR signal - minus the green spectacle plate!!

 

post-7571-0-42485600-1350590608_thumb.jpg

 

So, ..... what next?? Well, I think a few more days operating to find the snags and iron them out. I have, however, decided that I am going to have to replace the pointwork I had built. It's frankly not very good. Although stock does not now derail, there are places where the gauge is so tight that stock is slowed down and, in the case of the 03, actually stopped!! I'll build some C&L point kits - this time to 7mm finescale standards. I'll fit some of the signals, but the ground signals will have to wait until the rebuilt pointwork is finished. Then ..... ? I'll decide when the snagging is finished!!

 

Rod

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Hi all.

 

Thanks for the last comment, Jon. I too feel it is coming together now. I fitted the last of the droppers a few days ago and have spent some time operating. I've found (I'm glad to say!!!) few snags. The major one is the running over the pointwork. On that subject, a correction to my last entry: the 03 was not jamming on the pointwork, for some reason it was getting no current!! I've adjusted the pickups on the match truck now and it sails through.

 

However, as I said before, I've decided that I am going to replace all the pointwork and I've now ordered 4 x point kits and 1 x single slip kit from C&L Finescale. It's annoying, having spent that money but it needs doing because I know I'll never be happy with it as it is. Moral of the story - get references about builders/suppliers etc you've not worked with before. It's also annoying that I can't fit the signals, but if I'm replacing the pointwork I'd have to reposition them as the points I've ordered are slightly longer than the existing (B6 as opposed to A6). I can have the longer ones because it's turned out that I've about 18" more length than I thought I had.

 

Until the pointwork kits arrive, I'm building up 4 Parkside Dundas kits of BR fish vans for use as Express Parcels vehicles. Plus I've got the 3-car 108 to work on - the connections for the speaker and lights in the rear driving car need redoing.

 

I'm slightly concerned that I've too much stock for the layout ........honest!! But I'll wait until it's all up and running before I make any decisions on that score. [There's a 115 on it's way, as well as the parcels vehicles - a pal is going to build that for me - I know the standard of his work. In fact he built the 3-car 108]

 

So, for a while, there's not likely to be much progress on the layout but, rest assured I will be working away in the background!! I may be back with progress on the point kits - to be honest, I'm really looking forward to tackling them - just as I'm enjoying building the vans. It makes a nice change from track laying and electrics!!

 

Back in the not too distant future.

 

Rod

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Hi Rod

 

It is disappointing that the points will have to be replaced, though if you are building them yourself, you have quality control in your hands at all stages. Are you going to abandon 31.5mm? I hope not, but can understand your position. Having said that, I've known of 32mm points from your builder that didn't work well either. Whichever route you go down, I'm sure you'll have great fun building them.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

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Hi Rod

 

It is disappointing that the points will have to be replaced, though if you are building them yourself, you have quality control in your hands at all stages. Are you going to abandon 31.5mm? I hope not, but can understand your position. Having said that, I've known of 32mm points from your builder that didn't work well either. Whichever route you go down, I'm sure you'll have great fun building them.

 

Cheers

 

Richard

 

Hi Richard

 

Yes, I'm afraid I am going to abandon 31.5 mm gauge for the moment: not because I think there's anything inherently wrong with it, it's just that the C&L point kits have the frog assembly ready made up and I think it will be quicker, and more accurate, for me as these are the first I have ever done. I have seriously considered 31.5mm but feel, deep down, this is the best way for me to go at the moment. It's a bit sad, as I was really inspired by your trackwork but I'll get these 4 points and the slip built and see where I feel I can go from there.

 

There is a trailing crossover on a curve (2 x C10 points) that I might consider doing in 31.5 mm but I'll see how I go with the others first. Hhhmmm ....... , thinking about it, apart from the 2 x C10s. there are 3 other B6s leading into the sidings to replace: perhaps I could cut my 31.5 mm teeth on them??? Who knows? I'll decide after this exercise. Thanks for your help so far - keep reading - who knows what might happen?

 

Rod

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi all

 

Just to say I've not been idle, although things have been rather busy with non-railway related items! I've finished 2 of the insulfish vans and the other 2 are in advanced states of construction.

 

These are the 2 I've finished so far, coupled to a Freightman version of the same vehicle, which needs repainting. I'm waiting until I've finished building the other 2 before I start painting.

 

post-7571-0-71550000-1352764272_thumb.jpg

 

This is a side view of the two:

 

post-7571-0-11811300-1352764527_thumb.jpg

 

If you look closely at the underframe of the right hand vehicle you can see the long operating rod is lower than on the other vehicle. (It's just along the line of the furthest away rail). I put it on wrong and had superglued it before I realised. If you follow the movement of the linkage, applying the brakes on the loco releases the brakes on this vehicle!! Ooops!! My justification is that it was the first one I built and I couldn't understand the instructions properly - my fault, not the instuctions'!! I'll wait until it's painted to see how obvious it is!!

 

I've put a piece of lead sheet in each to add a bit of weight. This photo shows them: (the curly bits are scraps!!)

 

post-7571-0-76949100-1352764889_thumb.jpg

 

So, 2 more to finish then it's on to the C&L point kits which have arrived and I'm really looking forward to getting going on them.

 

More soon.

 

Rod

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Evening all!!

 

More progress - well, sort of - read on! I've done some operating for real (as opposed to just shunting about) this last couple of days and (as you do) I have found things to change.

 

The first thing was that one of the dead-end sidings in the fiddle yard was too short. I tried to get a 37 and inspection saloon into it and it left very, very little clearance for the road alongside. So I've lengthened it by about 4". It now holds that train or a 2-car DMU without blocking the other siding. This is a photo showing the alteration:

 

post-7571-0-93278000-1353190194_thumb.jpg

 

The extra piece is the short length in the middle of the left-hand siding.

 

I then found I needed the preservervation site roads for storage, so I set about laying them. Here's a photo of how it now looks:

 

post-7571-0-16470100-1353190348_thumb.jpg

 

And another with the "Welsh Dragon" stock stabled by the water tower. The loco, an Ivatt 2-6-2T no. 41276, is away being repainted. I should have it for Monday.

 

post-7571-0-84500400-1353190473_thumb.jpg

 

However, having had most of my stock on the layout, and with a few parcels vans, a 3-car and a 4-car DMU and a Class 31 yet to fit onto it, my worst fears are somewhat realised. I find that I need more storage space if I run everything at the same time. I like to do this - I don't believe in leaving good models sitting in a cupboard when they are able to run.

 

A friend came round today to look at the layout and do some running and he suggested making the preservation site into a DMU stabling point. Now that does appeal to me, I have to admit!! However, I'd have to lengthen the headshunt and sidings by about 6" each to fit in 2 x 2-car sets - providing they were the 57' long ones. My 4-car Class 115 (63' vehicles) is very unlikely to fit. However, that can be diagrammed to return to, say, Birkenhead every night. Then there's the question of what to do about the point motors and signalling (and my lovely signal box diagram!!) I'll let it float around in my brain for a while: I'll build and lay the new pointwork first and then see if I've got the room. The preserved steam set could then be kept at the preservation site at New Brighton, which BR offered to them after withdrawing the offer of space at West Kirby Town. (How does that sound, Ressaldar (Mike)??) I'd then only need a water column for the steam special when it arrives from New Brighton.

 

So, more thinking to do whilst I wire up the current preservation site, finish the parcels vans and build and fit the new points!!

 

Doesn't get boring this hobby, does it?? More soon.

 

Rod

Edited by Dmudriver
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Hi all.

 

I said at the end of my last post that this hobby doesn't get boring. The last few days have proved that - boring no, frustrating, yes!!!

 

I said last time that a friend had suggested a DMU stabling point instead of the preserved railway site and I've decided to go along with that idea. The Preservation Society were offered space at either New Brighton or Bidston (I'm not sure which) on old siding areas and jumped at the chance and have now moved out, taking the signal and water tower with them!!

 

I then set about wiring the track for the DMU stabling point, checking circuits after every couple of soldered joints to make sure I'd not created any shorts. Everything tested OK, so decided to move my 2-car 108 from the far side of the station to the stabling point. Until I reversed crossover 23 - and got a short!!! It turned out I'd missed out an insulated fishplate. A quick whizz with a slitting disc sorted that, so on with the movement. The 108 got halfway there and then everything shorted again!! No points were changed, nothing was touched, it just shorted!

 

To cut a pretty long story short, the culprit was the insulation between the axle and wheel of one of the motor bogie axles. It was a whisp of smoke that gave it away!! There was even flame, too!! That is the first time that I can recall, in all my years of railway modelling, of having that problem. What caused it, I haven't a clue!! The insulation had broken away slightly and it was there that the flame and smoke were appearing - not only on 16v ac, but also on 12v dc!! The unit had been behaving a bit erratically for a week or two, so maybe that was the problem. I'll give it a proper test when the lights are refitted.

 

Finding this had meant stripping the DMU down and I couldn't get the lights back in properly (they were on a strip of copperclad which had to be refitted after the chassis was put back on). So I'm still in the process of refitting them - trying to get tidy wiring under the driver's desk!!. The DMU runs OK, though - the motor and chip are unaffected.

 

So that's put the finishing of the Insulfish vans and the pointwork back but I do have a functioning stabling point!! I've also got the Ivatt tank back and here's a couple of photos. In the first , the steam special arrives from New Brighton:

 

post-7571-0-15245800-1353846479_thumb.jpg

 

The first vehicles in the stabling point are a 128 and the 108 trailer car, the latter awaiting the repaired power car:

 

post-7571-0-81220900-1353846586_thumb.jpg

 

And, finally, an overall view:

 

post-7571-0-30168600-1353846657_thumb.jpg

 

Hopefully you'll have noticed that I straightened the front steps on the Ivatt for the second pic!!! More soon.

 

Rod

 

PS I am trying to alter the thread title (as the Preservation Society have gone) but am having some difficulty. Will ask a Mod for help!!

Edited by Dmudriver
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  • RMweb Gold

PS I am trying to alter the thread title (as the Preservation Society have gone) but am having some difficulty. Will ask a Mod for help!!

 

Edit the first post and then select "Use Full Editor" (at the bottom) this should then allow you to change the title

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