West Kirby Town: narrow gauge may be coming to town.

[Hroth]

Just found part of the Liverpool Echo for 15th April, 1985 that I'd kept, showing  M28680M on the RCTS Class 503 Farewell tour which took place on Saturday 13th April, "Leaving Rock Ferry station on its last run", there is also a picture of the driver for the Class 503 special, named as George Driver.  Also in the main photo is one of the replacement EMUs and on the Birkenhead Joint platform, a class 101 DMU.

 

 

 

I think the track laying to the left is in connection with the electrification to Hooton (and eventually to Ellesmere Port and Chester).

 

 

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Hroth

[Hal Nail]

I assume this is all tongue in cheek but to me those 503s are about as attractive as Wayne Rooney. In contrast the Hampshire efforts are, well, a bit more Theo Walcott.

 

Just sayin'.

 

[Andrew P]

2 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

I assume this is all tongue in cheek but to me those 503s are about as attractive as Wayne Rooney. In contrast the Hampshire efforts are, well, a bit more Theo Walcott.

 

Just sayin'.

 

I'd have said Jonna Lumley, but maybe I'm a bit weird.

[Joseph_Pestell]

2 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

I assume this is all tongue in cheek but to me those 503s are about as attractive as Wayne Rooney. In contrast the Hampshire efforts are, well, a bit more Theo Walcott.

 

Just sayin'.

 

 

As a child, I found the 503s to be wonderful and always looked forward to a trip into Liverpool from West Kirby. But then our local trains at home were 4-SUBs.

[Hroth]

14 hours ago, Hal Nail said:

I assume this is all tongue in cheek but to me those 503s are about as attractive as Wayne Rooney. In contrast the Hampshire efforts are, well, a bit more Theo Walcott.

 

Just sayin'.

 

 

You find a technically advanced multiple unit with a smooth outline and decent seating aligned with the windows as attractive as a loutish traitor like Rooney?  Pah! 

 

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

For the moment, back to parcels from 503s!!  Some time ago I mentioned a parcels formation I'd seen that I rather fancied.  Well, it's here!!  Here's the pic that inspired it:

 

 

And after some good work from my pal Dave, here's what the model looks like in the platform at WKT:

 

 

And from a slightly different angle:

 

 

It's made up of a Class 128, a wired- and piped-through GUV and a Class 116 DMS (reclassified as 130), with the seats removed - but not the partitions.   Note the branding on the GUV: this was one of a pair of GUVs that was marshalled between 2 DMU power cars to form a Railair Express Parcels service from Bristol (if I remember correctly) to Heathrow Airport.  When the service finished the GUVs were used to make up units like my model.  The branding on the GUV has had the "Air" bit removed - hence the larger than normal gap between "Rail" and "Express".  Note also the larger than normal (for a DMU) arrows on the side of the 130.

 

On the model, only the 128 is powered - it makes enough noise for 2!!  Here are a couple more pics - one from above showing the unit side on:

 

 

Apologies for it being a bit fuzzy (mobile phone camera!).  And then from the 128 end;

 

 

Being very technical the 128 should have corridor connections and reporting number boxes as here:

 

 

 but unfortunately that isn't the one I bought before I decided on this formation so this one it will have to be!!  That constitutes a new parcels flow from the South West to Moreton - exactly what the traffic is is a trade secret for now (in other words, I've not made up the story yet!!).

 

I'm still rather pleased with it, though!!  I'll do a video of it soon - so watch this space!!

 

More soon.

 

 

Rod

Edited October 9, 2020 by Dmudriver

[muddys-blues]

53 minutes ago, Dmudriver said:

Hi all.

 

For the moment, back to parcels from 503s!!  Some time ago I mentioned a parcels formation I'd seen that I rather fancied.  Well, it's here!!  Here's the pic that inspired it:

 

 

And after some good work from my pal Dave, here's what the model looks like in the platform at WKT:

 

 

And from a slightly different angle:

 

 

It's made up of a Class 128, a wired- and piped-through GUV and a Class 116 DMS (reclassified as 130), with the seats removed - but not the partitions.   Note the branding on the GUV: this was one of a pair of GUVs that was marshalled between 2 DMU power cars to form a Railair Express Parcels service from Bristol (if I remember correctly) to Heathrow Airport.  When the service finished the GUVs were used to make up units like my model.  The branding on the GUV has had the "Air" bit removed - hence the larger than normal gap between "Rail" and "Express".  Note also the larger than normal (for a DMU) arrows on the side of the 130.

 

On the model, only the 128 is powered - it makes enough noise for 2!!  Here are a couple more pics - one from above showing the unit side on:

 

 

Apologies for it being a bit fuzzy (mobile phone camera!).  And then from the 128 end;

 

 

Being very technical the 128 should have corridor connections and reporting number boxes as here:

 

 

 but unfortunately that isn't the one I bought before I decided on this formation so this one it will have to be!!  That constitutes a new parcels flow from the South West to Moreton - exactly what the traffic is is a trade secret for now (in other words, I've not made up the story yet!!).

 

I'm still rather pleased with it, though!!  I'll do a video of it soon - so watch this space!!

 

More soon.

 

 

Rod

 

Lovely jubbly Mr M. a lovely unusual subject, very well executed , hope you are keeping safe and well  ?

 

Best regards

Craig.

[gismorail]

Some wonderfully inspiration modelling going on here Sir I've never seen such a formation in real life but it makes a very interesting modelling subject. Well done to Dave for some very fine modelling will look forward to the video when it comes out. 

[Simond]

10 hours ago, Dmudriver said:

at the traffic is is a trade secret for now

It would need to be something relatively small, but high value.  
 

How about the gold/silver paper for wrapping the chocolate eggs?

 

or the nuts for the fruit & nut

 

the train that takes the holes for the Aero bars goes to York of course...

 

atb

Simon

 

[Dmudriver]

5 hours ago, Simond said:

the train that takes the holes for the Aero bars goes to York of course...

 

And the one with the holes for the Polo mints? ........... 

[Dmudriver]

I've been looking at more parcels DMU stuff and came across this pic.  The 2 power units I've got, plus 3 (!!) trailing vehicles.  

 

 

I could reproduce this train but with 2 x GUVs and a 4-wheel Rail Express Parcels vehicle I've yet to paint.  It would need the shunter at WKT to reverse it, too.

 

Then I found this pic, too.  2x Class 130 (ex 116) power cars minus seats.   I'm beginning to think I may need a parcels depot on the layout somewhere, somehow!!!    Or a bigger fiddle yard!!

 

 

Dave - how about one for your new layout?  

 

More soon.

 

 

Rod

[5BarVT]

My vote is for the parcels depot.

:-)

Keeps the WKT shunter more occupied.

Paul.

[gismorail]

Yes a parcels depot would add a great deal to the layout though I'm not sure where you could locate such a facility but I'm sure you could find somewhere. Imagine the extra period road transport that you could include 

[Regularity]

If you run a parcels dmu, you don’t need a depot, nor a shunter. Just allocate one of the platforms to parcels loading/unloading for a period of the evening. You could attach a parcels dmu to another service, and then breaking the train at WKT and move the dmu to the other platform, so that the normal dmu can continue its operations or even go on depot.

 

Many years ago, I managed the classic misunderstanding of when in the evening my then girlfriend was due to arrive at Leicester station, and arrived an hour early. But was extremely pleased as it turned out that passenger services were all using platforms 1 and 2, on the down side, whilst platforms 3 and 4 were being used for breaking up and shunting parcels vehicles. Great fun to watch, but as WKT is a terminus, I can’t imagine that there would be so much traffic as to require this degree of activity.

[muddys-blues]

A parcels bay would be a good addition Rod, but the pictures you are drooling over, seem to be heading towards Berkshire .

 

May be a new layout project is in order ? 

 

The mixed parcels lash up is great Rod 

[Dmudriver]

Hi all.

 

I've done the video of the parcels formation.  It looks like there were a few enthusiasts about to record this first working, so I've combined 6 of their videos.  There's no commentary - it's just the unit coming through the country into platform 1 and, after a quick turn round, going back to Moreton.  Time - just under 4 minutes.

 

Housekeeping note:  I apologise for the flashing markers on the 130.  The regular flashing is due to filming LEDs on a digital camera -- though how that happens, I don't understand!!

 

The longer sections of lights out are due to ... I don't know what:  I'm still trying to fathom that out.  Not pickups or dirty track - I've sorted that.  And it's only when the white lights are showing (coming into the station).   I'll explain when I find out the cause.

 

Enjoy!

 

 

Rod

Edited October 11, 2020 by Dmudriver

[Hroth]

11 hours ago, Dmudriver said:

Housekeeping note:  I apologise for the flashing markers on the 130.  The regular flashing is due to filming LEDs on a digital camera -- though how that happens, I don't understand!!

 

I'd normally do a bit of hand-waving and suggest that it was connected to sampling rates with the digicam, but given that the 128 appears to have nice steady lights with the same camera...

 

Two thoughts. Does the 128 have LED lighting or does it have old-fashioned filament bulbs, I suspect it has LEDs so that wouldn't be the difference. The other is what DCC decoder are you using in the 130? Does the 128 have a different manufacturer/type decoder?

 

Oh well, nice bit of running, even though the driver keeps flashing his headlights! 

 

 

[gismorail]

19 hours ago, Regularity said:

If you run a parcels dmu, you don’t need a depot, nor a shunter. Just allocate one of the platforms to parcels loading/unloading for a period of the evening. You could attach a parcels dmu to another service, and then breaking the train at WKT and move the dmu to the other platform, so that the normal dmu can continue its operations or even go on depot.

 

Many years ago, I managed the classic misunderstanding of when in the evening my then girlfriend was due to arrive at Leicester station, and arrived an hour early. But was extremely pleased as it turned out that passenger services were all using platforms 1 and 2, on the down side, whilst platforms 3 and 4 were being used for breaking up and shunting parcels vehicles. Great fun to watch, but as WKT is a terminus, I can’t imagine that there would be so much traffic as to require this degree of activity.

I seem to remember that the two bay platforms at Chester General on the East side  (Crewe end )of the station along side the 'Red Star' parcels office ....always loads of platform trolleys everywhere 

[Jintyman]

On 11/10/2020 at 21:11, Dmudriver said:

Hi all.

 

I've done the video of the parcels formation.  It looks like there were a few enthusiasts about to record this first working, so I've combined 6 of their videos.  There's no commentary - it's just the unit coming through the country into platform 1 and, after a quick turn round, going back to Moreton.  Time - just under 4 minutes.

 

Housekeeping note:  I apologise for the flashing markers on the 130.  The regular flashing is due to filming LEDs on a digital camera -- though how that happens, I don't understand!!

 

The longer sections of lights out are due to ... I don't know what:  I'm still trying to fathom that out.  Not pickups or dirty track - I've sorted that.  And it's only when the white lights are showing (coming into the station).   I'll explain when I find out the cause.

 

Enjoy!

 

 

Rod

 

 

Hi Rod,

 

A lovely Parcels train, unusual , but prototypical and interesting.

I also like the scenics you've been doing, it's all making WKT that much more interesting.

 

As for the flashing LED's on video/film, I would suspect that the FPS of the camera is not in sync with the FPS of the LED. 

From what I've read elsewhere, LED's flicker (too fast for the human eye to detect) and obviously the camera takes video at a set FPS rate (frames per second), this gives a flickering effect for LED's if the two rates are not in sync.

At least that's how I read it.

 

Regards

Jinty 

[pwr]

You could always pretend the parcels depot is off scene and that you need to run round in the station as access is only available from the down (?) line. Not sure which was which at this location.

 

Paul R

[Hroth]

On 12/10/2020 at 12:56, 313201 said:

Possibly the only way to model the 503s at the moment would be converting mk1 coaches and scratch building the cab end or resin casting in a mould

 

It would only be vaguely approximate as a 503 has no relation to the Mk1 coach length/profile, initially being built by the LMS in the 1930s and replicated by BR in 1956.  Have a look at the photos at the top of the page!

 

[Simond]

I wonder if suitable roof profiles are available.  
 

3D printed cab ends would not be too difficult, given there’s a real one to scan.  Ditto the seating.

 

I’d go for etched brass sides, though David Jenkinson style laminated plasticard would work equally well

 

milled brass channel for underframes and Buffer beams, with PCB for the floor would provide a solid foundation.  
 

I don’t know anything about the bogies, but I doubt they would pose impossible issues.  
 

Steph Dale (Finney 7) offers suitable axle drives and cardan shafts to allow a chassis mounted motor.

 

I guess suitable wheels, buffers, other bits & pieces are available.

 

might need a team effort, and a few interested parties.  
 

atb

Simon

 

 

[Dmudriver]

On 12/10/2020 at 12:56, 313201 said:

Hi Everyone, 

 

I believe there was at some point a few years ago a kit available for the 503s but it had the original as built cab front the units had where they did not have the end evacuation doors which were later added in compliance with regulations which stated that all emu stock that was intended for underground use, must have end doors fitted in case an evacuation was ordered.

 

As a result the doors were added to the 503s but their 502 counterparts which ran on the southport, ormskirk, kirkby and garston lines ( pre hunts cross extension ) did not get these modifications and kept their original cab front for their entire life despite the regulations..

 

Possibly the only way to model the 503s at the moment would be converting mk1 coaches and scratch building the cab end or resin casting in a mould, however, their may still be kits out there that somebody owns but never built in OO gauge but for O gauge the only option would be complete scratch building.

 

Thanks for the comments 313201 and everyone else on the subject of 503s.  Earlier in the thread there was a post on this subject which referred to rue d'etropal/recreation21 which produces 3d printed models of Classes 502 and 503.  (My apologies to whoever mentioned it but I can't find your post easily, so can't quote your name.  But thank you very much anyway!)

 

Here is a link to a page which shows Class 502 models in 0 gauge.  There are also 503s in 00 and smaller so I assume they could do one in 0.

 

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/recreation21?sort=name

 

I can't find the link to the 503s as I find the site very difficult to navigate around.  There is also a Facebook page.  What I will try and do is find someone who has made up a model and see what they think.  This may take a while, so don't hold your breath!!!

 

Has anyone had any dealings at all with rue d'etropal/recreation21?

 

 

Rod

 

EDIT     Found it!! - here:  http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/3d_printed_sg-trains2.htm

 

Then click on LMS REGION and this is what you get:  http://www.rue-d-etropal.com/3D-printing/3d_printed_sg-trains2-lms.htm         

 

There they are - 502s and 503s, with plenty of other stuff.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2020 by Dmudriver
spelling

[Hal Nail]

27 minutes ago, Dmudriver said:

Has anyone had any dealings at all with rue d'etropal/recreation21?

No but unless things have moved on considerably (which is of course perfectly possible given how technology advances), 3D printing quality could be poor in O gauge.

[Simond]

That may certainly be an issue, but I’d be more concerned about whether the models would fit in the build envelope, and if not, where the joins would be and therefore how to disguise them.

 

looks good though.  
 

atb

Simon