Hest Bank in 4mm scale

[TerryD1471]

Thanks so much, Buhar

 

Those are the best pics I have seen of the box's northern elevation. Here comes the bummer!! I have put the outside WC on the left hand side at the top of the stairs, just like I have seen on so many other LNWR boxes. And IT ISN'T THERE!!

Heigh-ho, should I worry, because there are so many other faults with the layout which were discovered after I had built them and which turned up following receipt of better information later on.

 

Perhaps it's one of those things which we just have to accept, or alter later on.

 

The pics themselves of Coronation Scot are absolutely superb. Have they ever been published? If not, I feel very privileged to have seen them and thanks once again.

[Buhar]

Never published. They're scans from a 3" square print. My Mum was throwing them out and I rescued them when checking through the pile of stuff.

 

Bad luck on the WC.

 

Alan 

[TerryD1471]

Following on from pics of the signal cabin under construction and awaiting painting, I now attach a pic of the brickwork in a "toned down" condition.

 

Still a few things to do, but at least the plasticard brickwork isn't shouting at us any more and the grass bank behind is beginning to look a bit more natural. However, as Alan (Buhar's) lovely Coronation Scot pics show, there is an outside privy at the top of the steps which shouldn't be there. Also the two halves of the cabin front which came from different Prototype Models kits are differing shades although this is less obvious in reality than the photo suggests. As is also the fact that there is not much interior detail in the cabin.

[runs as required]

On 09/07/2020 at 13:43, TerryD1471 said:

Following on from pics of the signal cabin under construction and awaiting painting, I now attach a pic of the brickwork in a "toned down" condition.

However, as Alan (Buhar's) lovely Coronation Scot pics show, there is an outside privy at the top of the steps which shouldn't be there. 

So where might a Bobby have gone to relieve himself in such an over-looked and exposed busy mainline box? 

It looks like its about 250 yds down to the station; would he have time between trains to scuttle there and back on day shifts?

Might he have had a book boy capable of holding the fort during longer newspaper reading sessions?  

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

5 hours ago, runs as required said:

So where might a Bobby have gone to relieve himself in such an over-looked and exposed busy mainline box? 

It looks like its about 250 yds down to the station; would he have time between trains to scuttle there and back on day shifts?

Might he have had a book boy capable of holding the fort during longer newspaper reading sessions?  

 

 

WC location in signal boxes was variable, even in "standardised" designs. It may well be that, at Hest Bank, there was a WC downstairs in a corner of the locking room. At other locations, one would find the WC in a separate hut - but close by.

[TerryD1471]

This is an interesting question as there is nowhere behind the box (east side) to put one and definitely not one at the other (south) end. As you suggest it might be downstairs in the locking room, but a rapid trot to the station buildings doesn't sound feasible to me. The fact remains that my model is wrong and somehow I'm going to have to rectify it, but not yet!

[ColinK]

The latest edition of ‘Steam Days’ has an article on Hest Bank.

[TerryD1471]

Thanks Colin

 

A kind friend has sent me a copy so I've had an opportunity to look at it. One or two pics I haven't seen before which either confirm some necessary guess-work or (!) show I've got it wrong!

[richard i]

The layout is really coming together there Terry.

it is great to see it.

Richard 

[ColinK]

Yes, but the model is sunny, it’s raining cars, dogs, sheep and cows at the real Hest Bank at the moment!

[TerryD1471]

Yes, you're right Colin, it was sunny here in mid-Wales when the pic was taken. I have to tell our visitors that the weather here is pretty good; it doesn't rain any more here in Wales than it does in the rest of the UK. On the other hand it doesn't rain any less!

Perhaps we should look to the "dry side" as folks in the east call themselves.

[richard i]

I can assure you the East has been no more dry than anywhere else over the last month. 
richard 

[MacDuff999]

Really good to have lighted on your layout thread Terry, which I managed to do via Iain's Motive Power for Camden thread. The link and interest between the two, for me, is that of Stanier 'Duchesses'. I often saw them at Manchester London Road station in the 50's. I have just acquired a H/D body (not sure what stage of its incarnation) for one, which I would like to try and build up into a reasonable representation of 46232 'Duchess of Montrose'.  I have obtained a set of Comet smoke deflector etches, and a front bogie etch, so far. Having removed the over-scale handrails and the original smoke-deflectors, the body looks quite a fair representation of a 'Coronation'. I need to order bogie wheels, for a start, from Markits, but the main challenge really will be (quite possibly) a Comet chassis. Having already had a little experience of one before, their mainframes seem a bit on the thin side. You mention you have used 1/16th. (c. 0.060ins.) brass on a few occasions. I wonder if you would be willing to tell me a little about your experiences using that, as I tend to think more robust material is more practical for those less experienced (like me) at this sort of thing. Just one other point, do you know if it is possible to safely solder (low-melt) to the white metal used in the H/D bodies?  Grateful for any help and information.

Ian.     

[TerryD1471]

On 20/04/2021 at 21:13, MacDuff999 said:

Really good to have lighted on your layout thread Terry, which I managed to do via Iain's Motive Power for Camden thread. The link and interest between the two, for me, is that of Stanier 'Duchesses'. I often saw them at Manchester London Road station in the 50's. I have just acquired a H/D body (not sure what stage of its incarnation) for one, which I would like to try and build up into a reasonable representation of 46232 'Duchess of Montrose'.  I have obtained a set of Comet smoke deflector etches, and a front bogie etch, so far. Having removed the over-scale handrails and the original smoke-deflectors, the body looks quite a fair representation of a 'Coronation'. I need to order bogie wheels, for a start, from Markits, but the main challenge really will be (quite possibly) a Comet chassis. Having already had a little experience of one before, their mainframes seem a bit on the thin side. You mention you have used 1/16th. (c. 0.060ins.) brass on a few occasions. I wonder if you would be willing to tell me a little about your experiences using that, as I tend to think more robust material is more practical for those less experienced (like me) at this sort of thing. Just one other point, do you know if it is possible to safely solder (low-melt) to the white metal used in the H/D bodies?  Grateful for any help and information.

Ian.     

Hi Ian

 

Thanks for the message and I'm delighted to offer such knowledge as I have!

 

If the body shell has curved footplating ahead of the smokebox, it will be the first type produced up until about 1957-8. This is a better basis for a model of 46232 as the second type, produced 1958-64 (and later by Wrenn) has the utility (footplate with a gap) front end which is wrong for Montrose. I have a preference for the first type as it is dimensionally accurate and nicely proportioned. The second type seems a bit chunky.

 

The main areas for attention on the body are:-

1 The firebox extends too far forward at the bottom. This is to accommodate the enormous motor that HD fitted and needs to be cut back using dental burrs, files and drills. There is plenty of room to rebuild the required shape using filler. If you don't want such drastic surgery, it's still possible to file away some of the excess metal to get a better shape. Photos or a recent Hornby model (which is accurate in this area) will assist you.

2 The body shell has "skirts" which fill in the space between the bottom of the boiler and the footplate. Removal of this using fine drills, files etc will improve the appearance, as long as you don't lose the curve at the bottom of the boiler.

3 The cab windows are too small; they can be opened out with a file to the correct size.

 

The material used for the shell is cast mazak. I have never been able to solder it.

 

As far as the chassis is concerned, a Comet chassis is a very good template to use for cutting out from 1/16 brass. Ideally you should sweat two strips of brass together and having marked it out, cut to shape with a hacksaw and big files. Drilling axle holes is crucial. Use a pillar drill and a 3mm drill bit (slightly undersize) finishing off with a 1/8 taper reamer. When marking the axle holes ensure the middle axle is a whisker higher than the 1st & 3rd. This will improve running. (I confess to a lot of trial & error at the start!)

 

Comet chassis are very good as long as you use sufficient frame spacers; the more the better as the strength is in the"egg-box" type structure. Just make sure you leave room for the motor and gears!

 

I have used 1mm brass in later chassis, they are just as rigid and if you use "top hat" bearings for the driving axles, there is sufficient bearing area and more room for the motor. You are aiming (in 00) for a chassis 12.5 mm wide.

 

Good luck with the project and feel free to contact me with any further queries.

 

All the best

 

Terry

[MacDuff999]

Thanks for your reply Terry. I did check the front footplate when I got the body, and was pleased it was the right one for my intended model. I wouldn't have minded too much choosing a loco with the other type, but my maternal great grandparents came from Montrose, and I liked the idea of the connection. I recall your previous comments about re-shaping some areas of the body - I may leave the firebox, but have a go at judiciously excising some metal from below the main boiler section. As far as chassis are concerned, I have had a little experience with Comet chassis, and to a relative novice like me, they are a bit on the flimsy side. I like the DJH kind, nice and robust! I agree 1mm/0.020ins. thickness would likely be just right, as long as the spacers are no more than 11.5mm. On another tack, I take it you are in west Wales? I am in Cardiff. I seem to recall you mentioned in your thread that you had been ordained in Church in Wales, is that correct? We have some involvement with Christchurch here in Radyr; a number of our local friends/acquaintances go there. Just one final point re the loco, the body is of the earlier type you mention, so that is good.       

[MacDuff999]

Oo-er, an error! 1mm=0.040ins. not 0.020ins, although the latter thickness would still be fairly acceptable. 

[ColinK]

Here is a backscene for you Terry - yesterday evening at Hest Bank. Spot the man and dog.

 

 

[MacDuff999]

How lucky you were to see that Colin. Fabulous. One man and his Dog, against the sunset. No sign of the sheep!  

[TerryD1471]

2 hours ago, ColinK said:

Here is a backscene for you Terry - yesterday evening at Hest Bank. Spot the man and dog.

 

 

Absolutely gorgeous, Colin. Just 2 snags, the catenary gets in the way and the view is the "other way round", i.e. looking west. The normal viewpoint of the layout is looking to the east from the seaward side. I tell visitors that if they were standing looking at the layout in reality, they would be getting their feet wet in the shallows of Morecambe Bay!

[TerryD1471]

11 hours ago, MacDuff999 said:

Thanks for your reply Terry. I did check the front footplate when I got the body, and was pleased it was the right one for my intended model. I wouldn't have minded too much choosing a loco with the other type, but my maternal great grandparents came from Montrose, and I liked the idea of the connection. I recall your previous comments about re-shaping some areas of the body - I may leave the firebox, but have a go at judiciously excising some metal from below the main boiler section. As far as chassis are concerned, I have had a little experience with Comet chassis, and to a relative novice like me, they are a bit on the flimsy side. I like the DJH kind, nice and robust! I agree 1mm/0.020ins. thickness would likely be just right, as long as the spacers are no more than 11.5mm. On another tack, I take it you are in west Wales? I am in Cardiff. I seem to recall you mentioned in your thread that you had been ordained in Church in Wales, is that correct? We have some involvement with Christchurch here in Radyr; a number of our local friends/acquaintances go there. Just one final point re the loco, the body is of the earlier type you mention, so that is good.       

Good to hear from you, Ian. Yes you are quite right, I was ordained a few years ago (better late than never!) although it's a bit of a cliche about clergymen being railway enthusiasts! (Some of my colleagues are decidedly sympathetic.) And yes, we are based in a secluded valley not a million miles from the metropolis of Aberystwyth; the air is clean and the lack of dust means that the track on the layout very rarely needs cleaning. Congregations are quite small, however!

 

I look forward to hearing of your progress with the Duchess project.

 

For my part, there are now two more Black 5s on the layout, built from DJH kits. Not perfect, but they do build very nicely and they are sweet and powerful runners. Photos to follow when they have been through the paint shops.

 

Also there is a Ks Duchess body kit approaching completion sitting atop a scratch brass chassis with a KTM motor (Japanese copy of a Pittman, I think), which will be City of Hereford, towing a Comet tender. A much-modified H/D later Duchess is coming along, too. It is scale wheeled but retains the original chassis/motor with the firebox pared down as much as I dare. It's a compromise, but the haulage powers are excellent. It tows the Ks tender from the above and thus is an example of the most common loco/tender combination of Duchess. It will probably be City of Bristol.

 

Best wishes.

 

Terry

 

 

[MacDuff999]

Well Terry, I have removed the over-scale handrails, along with the smoke deflectors and front basic coupling hook from the 'Duchess'. I am waiting for bogie wheels from Markits, but am undecided as to whether to risk the Comet chassis kit, or purchase just the frames set, and use them as a template for more robust mainframes. A bit of an expensive way to do it, as I will still need the bogie etch, Bissell truck etch, and the etch for the rear frame extensions if I do it this way, whereas they are part of the chassis kit. I think the next job is to strip the body. I have recently started a thread on my proposed layout entitled 'Merchiston Dairy' , which is based in Edinburgh, where I lived many years ago. The facility itself was not far from the steam loco shed at Dalry Road (64C). The layout is in its very early stages though. I could post the odd photo or two, but don't know how to do that. I see below it says 'drag files here to attach', but not sure how that is done. any help gratefully received RM Webbers.   

[TerryD1471]

On 24/04/2021 at 22:45, MacDuff999 said:

Well Terry, I have removed the over-scale handrails, along with the smoke deflectors and front basic coupling hook from the 'Duchess'. I am waiting for bogie wheels from Markits, but am undecided as to whether to risk the Comet chassis kit, or purchase just the frames set, and use them as a template for more robust mainframes. A bit of an expensive way to do it, as I will still need the bogie etch, Bissell truck etch, and the etch for the rear frame extensions if I do it this way, whereas they are part of the chassis kit. I think the next job is to strip the body. I have recently started a thread on my proposed layout entitled 'Merchiston Dairy' , which is based in Edinburgh, where I lived many years ago. The facility itself was not far from the steam loco shed at Dalry Road (64C). The layout is in its very early stages though. I could post the odd photo or two, but don't know how to do that. I see below it says 'drag files here to attach', but not sure how that is done. any help gratefully received RM Webbers.   

Hi Ian

 

You are probably asking the wrong person here for IT advice, although I have found that if I place a photo on the desktop screen  and have the RMweb page on "half-screen" I can use the mouse to click on the photo and drag it across to the RMweb page and click to place it where it says. Alternatively the "choose files" option will allow you access to the various start points. Sorry if this sounds like "the blind leading the blind" but the little I know has been learnt by trial and error; emphasis on the latter! I will try and post some photos here soon!

 

Terry

[t-b-g]

Mick Moore, builder of the signal gantry, doesn't really "do" social media and internet forum stuff but I have shown him some photos of where his signal ended up and he asked me to pass on a message to say how pleased he is that it has been put to such good use.

 

Tony Gee

[MacDuff999]

Well, how is Mr. Gee then? I presume you completed your build of 'Valour' in 7mm scale, which you showed me at Missenden about 3? years ago. Any chance of a photo Tony? Apologies gents, as this has nothing to do with Hest Bank!     

[t-b-g]

26 minutes ago, MacDuff999 said:

Well, how is Mr. Gee then? I presume you completed your build of 'Valour' in 7mm scale, which you showed me at Missenden about 3? years ago. Any chance of a photo Tony? Apologies gents, as this has nothing to do with Hest Bank!     

Hello, "MacDuff". I have enough trouble remembering people from their real names, never mind RMWeb user names. If you tell me what you were building, I will probably know just who you are.

 

The 7mm Valour is still unfinished but is quite well on. I tend to flit between scales and gauges and went back to 4mm EM for a while, starting work on a new EM gauge layout I did complete a 4mm Valour though. She is all ready for painting when I can visit a friend who has a nice spray booth.

 

 

So I attach a photo of that instead, with apologies for the non Hest Bank related loco.

 

Edit to add that contact has been made off RMWeb, so I know who I am communicating with now.

Edited April 27, 2021 by t-b-g
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