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Thanks for the comments, and yes thanks also, I have seen the film of the aftermath of the 1965 derailment. There have also been some aerial photos published of the same event (I think in Steam World) which proved very useful in placing various structures in relation to one another.

 

Confession is good for the soul; I have to confess to a lot of shortcomings with the layout (and some of these might even be clues tp personal shortcomings too!) Many nice RTR models have been acquired recently but have I removed the front couplings, fitted lamps to them, dirtied them? No. Has the trackwork been ballasted? No. Signals? Uh-uh! Buildings? Not nearly enough. Speaking of couplings, I used to use the time-honoured hook and bar method for coaching and freight stock, but the more recent standard tension-lock couplers now seem so relatively unobtrusive that I have reverted to using these and locos are gradually being fitted with 2 coupling bars, one between the buffers and one lower down at tension lock coupling height.

 

In my defence, this is now a one-man project, although in addition to the thanks mentioned previously to friends in the Wolverhampton MRC, I must also thank Oliver Howarth for kindly building the station buildings and station staff house.

As a one-man project, priorities have to be set and the principal one now is to get all the point motors wired up to the control panels. Power packs are being built to give 24v for that and also 18v supplies to the Modelex controllers.

 

The H & M point motors which have been mounted (very obtrusively at present) on top of the boards in the scenic section will in due course have a nice tussocky grass bank built around them to disguise their presence, and removable bits of scenery on top. The 65 odd point motors in the fiddle yard are clearly going to take a while to wire, so that may be a long-running saga.

 

To return to something I mentioned earlier, which was the issue of up trains entering the Morecambe branch and how they returned to the up yard, I hope the enclosed photo can explain how this is achieved.

 

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The road nearest the camera is the Morecambe branch and a train moving up the branch (left to right) can take the left fork of the point, cross over the down main and access the outermost 3 roads of the up yard. It's not an ideal solution, but it was the best I could manage in the space.

 

 

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This view a bit further round shows the three roads which can be reached and also the relatively easy way that traffic from the down main (extreme right hand road) can reach the Morecambe branch. Note also the embarrassing amount of rubbish bottom right hand corner which you never see through the camera viewfinder!

 

Now for something a little more photogenic.

 

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A very old Millholme Patriot (scratch chassis and X04 motor) wheels a parcels train up towards Lancaster. The prominent fish & chip shop behind the up platform is currently represented (very badly) by a Hornby station building and the very nice Bachmann signal box is in the right place, but sadly is not tall enough to be a good replica of the old box demolished in Dec 1958.

 

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A DJH Duchess (City of London) whisks the up Royal Scot (no headboard yet) at a very respectable pace past Hest. The very old diecast lower quadrant signal is due to be replaced by a Ratio plastic one (Job No. 38!)

 

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A Gem "Super D" built by the late Pete Lander, chassis by Tony Wright, late 1970s vintage, wheezes up towards Lancaster and beyond with an empty steels.

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the very nice Bachmann signal box is in the right place, but sadly is not tall enough to be a good replica of the old box demolished in Dec 1958.

 

Hest Bank was an LNWR Type 4 cabin, the Bachmann one is neither a 4 nor a 5 sadly, you could try the London Road etched top and make your own base if you wanted a more accurate structure. The prototype was replaced by an LMR standard cabin at the level crossing hence the demolition of the old structure !

 

The very old diecast lower quadrant signal is due to be replaced by a Ratio plastic one (Job No. 38!)

 

(The replacement is) An LMS signal, provided in 1937 (iirc) when the facing connection was installed, prior to then all trains for the Morecambe line had to do a double shuffle.

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Thanks, Beast 66606, for the clarification that it's a Type 4 box. I have managed to get one or two photos pre 1958 of the old box, and the Bachmann one will be replaced in due course. It shouldn't be too difficult to make a plasticard base with brick overlays to go with London Road's etches, but it's a job which will have to take its place in the queue!

 

The photos I have suggest that it will be possible to make the up Morecambe branch bracket signal from Ratio's kit. Do you concur?

 

There are two signal installations that really intrigue me. First, and much simpler, is the LNWR lower quadrant home (complete with sighting board) controlling the up line just prior to the level crossing. Secondly and much more complex, is the lovely gantry (complete with gallows homes) controlling the down lines prior to the junction. I was steeling myself to start work using MSE components to create this when someone told me that Mick Nicholson had built one for Bingham MRC's own version of Hest. This layout, apparently, was sadly destroyed in a clubroom fire, but I understood that the gantry had survived and when I was at Spalding show last autumn, I spoke to a very pleasant gentleman who suggested that I could contact the club to see whether they wanted to sell it. He gave me a contact phone number and I put it somewhere safe. Yep! It was so safe I can't b****y well find it. Help! The gantry is so distinctive that it has to be a high priority.

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Thanks, Beast 66606, for the clarification that it's a Type 4 box. I have managed to get one or two photos pre 1958 of the old box, and the Bachmann one will be replaced in due course. It shouldn't be too difficult to make a plasticard base with brick overlays to go with London Road's etches, but it's a job which will have to take its place in the queue!

 

I've seen quite a lot of photos of the old box in various books.

 

The photos I have suggest that it will be possible to make the up Morecambe branch bracket signal from Ratio's kit. Do you concur?

 

I have a feeling it's a broad flanged beam, basically a big I beam for the main post, I think the Ratio signals are tubular posts but some I beam from your favourite supplier should help, although it might be worth considering brass for durability.

 

There are two signal installations that really intrigue me. First, and much simpler, is the LNWR lower quadrant home (complete with sighting board) controlling the up line just prior to the level crossing. Secondly and much more complex, is the lovely gantry (complete with gallows homes) controlling the down lines prior to the junction.

 

Yes, I know those two, the down homes are very nice.

 

I was steeling myself to start work using MSE components to create this when someone told me that Mick Nicholson had built one for Bingham MRC's

 

Mick Nick is on the forum, hopefully he will read this soon.

 

cheers,

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Looking good on the wetter side of them thar hills! Wolverhampton MRC lads do like their real location layouts and consequently we mere mortals can enjoy nostalgic train spotting. Thanks 447.

(Visiting from Peterborough North)

P @ 36E

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I used to always get my Mum to stop at Hest Bank so I could watch trains every time we had the misfortune to venture to Morecambe when I was nipper, so I will be keeping an eye on this intriguing thread (1980's period when I first knew it unfortunately). Next time I am up North, I can get some photos of Hest Bank as it is today if you want; any requests?

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Welcome Terry! Good to see you on here, and get a look at the layout. We talked about it as York last year I think, and it's really nice to see another modeller who thinks big! I suspect from the fiddle yard photos that you have got even more locos than I have. I shall look forward to viewing progress, and I sympathise regarding the jobs to do list. If it's anything like mine it just keeps getting longer and longer.

 

Gilbert

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Thanks to you, Sandside, for your kind offer of more recent photos of Hest. I did make a site visit on 2 occasions a few years ago and got a pretty good selection of views of the location, so I suspect I have milked the place pretty well!

 

Yes, it was quite encouraging that the place is still amazingly busy; it seems to me that the level crossing gates are down more than they are up. It sort of restores your faith in the role of the modern railway to see so much traffic using this line now and these Pendolinos are amazing, although as a fairly tall bloke, I do find them a bit claustrophobic. Nevertheless I am encouraged by a belief that (1) railways are the best way to fly and (2) I must have landed on a reasonably good choice of prototype in the first place.

 

Secondly, Great Northern (or may I call you Gilbert?), thank you for your kind remarks. As far as "locoholism" is concerned;

1 I plead guilty as charged, M'lud.

2 In mitigation, I plead the fact that psychiatrists might suggest a certain tendency to retentiveness of the rear variety. More simply, I can't get rid of anything! This is evidenced by the fact that several of my freight locos are old Hornby Dublo 8Fs which have been mucked about a bit, but are nevertheless still very effective haulers after more than 50 years, working turn & turn about with much younger locos.

3 If it comes to numbers, then yes, I may have a substantial collection (about 140), but I think it may be a question of "never mind the quality, feel the width!"

4 There is still a certain virtue in the old ways. One of my delights is to take an ancient Hornby Dublo Duchess (more than 50 years old, albeit with scale wheels and a new paint job) and hang on to it a train that is so long that the layout can't cope with it. Then you watch the 22 coach ensemble simply walk away without a slip.

 

I think I read in Piccolo Pete Johnson's memoirs about an incident when the Midday Scot, loaded to 19 coaches behind 46248 City of Leeds, was obliged to take a Fowler 2P as a pilot loco. The crew complained that not only had they to pull 19, they also had to push the pilot too!

 

Happy days; I am eternally grateful that I actually am old enough to have had the chance to watch the steam railway function as it should. Mind you, I do also believe that nostalgia isn't what it was.

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Thanks once again Beast 66606 for more sage advice re the signals. If I look more closely at the photos I have, I may be able to confirm the nature of the upright for the up splitting signal.

 

Sound advice is always appreciated.

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Just a few extra pictures and captions to flesh out the information on Hest so far.

 

post-3867-0-24703600-1334646771_thumb.jpg

 

Yet another "Super D" on an up empty minerals working. This time it's one of Bachmann's excellent offerings, to supplement the two ancient Gem versions of this archaic but very strong prototype loco.

It is all too evident that it still has its front coupling (which will be replaced by a screw link type in due course) and that there are no lamps to denote that it's a partly fitted freight working.

 

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Yet another view of the storage yard, this time showing the stagger between the down and the up yards and pointing up the difference in lengths between the various roads. By having dedicated roads it is possible to fit the longest possible train into any given road. It also means that the operator alone is responsible for his train from beginning to end of a train movement, so there is no question of blaming someone else for one's mistakes! Finally, it means that every train can be run round on a continuous basis. I surely can't be the only one who feels that once is not always enough?

 

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View north from behind the "Cinderella bridge". This is only roughed out in plasticard at the moment, but I have plenty of evidence of what is should look like. Project number 34! The bridge apparently acquired its name because it gave access to a building which was once used as an orphanage.

One of Hornby's 8Fs hauls a long up partly fitted mixed freight.

 

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View of the station area looking south as a down Manchester-Glasgow runs through behind a Newton Heath Jubilee. It was only yesterday that I realised that the Hornby footbridge, which I thought would be capable of being doctored into a fairly reasonable representation of the old bridge is, in fact, a good scale 6 ft too tall. Major surgery is therefore required before everything is fixed in situ. Heigh-ho. You think you're getting somewhere near and suddenly the goalposts have shifted themselves.

 

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The same train from the opposite view. The coaching stock is a mix of modified proprietary and kit-built vehicles, which typefies the sort of mix which the real thing would have consisted of. The loco is a venerable Jamieson kit towing a Mainline tender.

 

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Finally a lengthy oils waiting to venture forward onto the down main, having come from the Heysham oil terminal. I honestly don't know if the mix of tank vehicle ownership is prototypical or not, but I do like a nice long weathered tanker train. The loco is a DJH WD 2-8-0, which has been later augmented by the odd Bachmann one.

 

I am very much indebted to Peter Rigby for a very comprehensive extract from the working timetable for Hest Bank which will enable me to ensure that freight movements on the layout are as much in accord with prototype practice as can be achieved.

Edited by terryd147
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I am very much indebted to Peter Rigby for a very comprehensive extract from the working timetable for Hest Bank which will enable me to ensure that freight movements on the layout are as much in accord with prototype practice as can be achieved.

 

Do you have any of the (if any exist) special instructions for Hest Bank - as detailed in the sectional appendix ? (For your time period it would be the 1937 one with supplement 4)

 

I have an outstanding query from another member for information on another station, so will be digging around anyway, depends how far you want to go on the prototypical operation front, I'm happy to find this information for you if you haven't got it, but want it ?

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Do you have any of the (if any exist) special instructions for Hest Bank - as detailed in the sectional appendix ? (For your time period it would be the 1937 one with supplement 4) I have an outstanding query from another member for information on another station, so will be digging around anyway, depends how far you want to go on the prototypical operation front, I'm happy to find this information for you if you haven't got it, but want it ?

 

Hello Beast 66606

 

Thanks for your message. The info I got from Mr Rigby was an extract (handwritten by him) from the WTT from June-Sept 1954 giving a detailed chronological sequence of freight workings between Carlisle Upperby and Euxton Jct. I'm afraid I have no special instructions for Hest, if indeed any exist. If you have better info, I would be glad, but I don't want you to go to extra effort, as I think it will be a while before I even bring operation up to the standard of my existing info.

 

On another topic, thanks for alerting me to the splitting signal at Hest. It's as clear as day that the post is a welded fabrication which supports a platform on which are mounted two subsidiary tubular posts. Not only that, the whole ensemble seemed to have been moved north entire during the Dec 1958 rebuild to a new position on the end of the up platform.

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Hello Beast 66606

 

Thanks for your message. The info I got from Mr Rigby was an extract (handwritten by him) from the WTT from June-Sept 1954 giving a detailed chronological sequence of freight workings between Carlisle Upperby and Euxton Jct. I'm afraid I have no special instructions for Hest, if indeed any exist. If you have better info, I would be glad, but I don't want you to go to extra effort, as I think it will be a while before I even bring operation up to the standard of my existing info.

 

On another topic, thanks for alerting me to the splitting signal at Hest. It's as clear as day that the post is a welded fabrication which supports a platform on which are mounted two subsidiary tubular posts. Not only that, the whole ensemble seemed to have been moved north entire during the Dec 1958 rebuild to a new position on the end of the up platform.

 

It's not a major effort, I will take a look and let you know what (if any) special instructions there were, I have the 1931 information too, comparing this to the 1937 (and later) information, may show some interesting changes to local working practices after the facing junction was installed.

 

It was not unusual for a signal in good condition to be moved, I have some nice photographs, given to me by my late friend Norman Jones, showing a signal at Hooton being lifted and repositioned by a steam powered, rail mounted crane - and my posting here describes a signal that was moved a few miles ! I was told, but unconfirmed, that when Preston and Warrington power boxes were commissioned in the early 1970s, the redundant (in good condition) steel signals were used to accelerate the replacement of the older wooden ones. (If this did indeed happen it's likely that the same happened with other PSB commissionings)

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1937

 

Next block posts

 

Main lines

 

Carnforth No.1

Morecambe South Jcn

 

Branch

 

Bare Lane

 

No special instructions.

 

By 1956

 

Additionally controlled Bolton-le-Sands down IBS

 

Nothing else !

 

As far as any special instructions were concerned it was just another station with a junction.

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Thanks beast 66606 for the additional signalling info. All extra snippets are welcome.

 

Just been doing some research on the buildings which form the scenic background; there are lots of residences which front Marine Drive up on top of the bank. Many of these are going to be represented more figuratively than actually, because I don't have enough lifetimes! Dapol's bungalows are probably going to be there in number - not accurate, but I think that anyone with local knowledge might still recognize it and that's really the whole idea.

 

Just found that Google maps street view facility is brilliant for getting a handle on what buildings are where, so this has helped in placing models on the layout.

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Hi Terry,

 

I recall talking to you about Hest Bank, several years ago now, at some exhibition or other when you were a regular member of the Stoke team. It's nice to see the progress you are making - it's looking good, particularly your arrangement with the storage sidings. I'll look forward to further posts as development continues.

 

On a different point, i noticed Gilbert (great northern) commenting that you probably have more locos than him. I know Gilbert well, take that with a pinch of salt, nobody has more locos that Gilbert!

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Hi Terry,

 

I recall talking to you about Hest Bank, several years ago now, at some exhibition or other when you were a regular member of the Stoke team. It's nice to see the progress you are making - it's looking good, particularly your arrangement with the storage sidings. I'll look forward to further posts as development continues.

 

On a different point, i noticed Gilbert (great northern) commenting that you probably have more locos than him. I know Gilbert well, take that with a pinch of salt, nobody has more locos that Gilbert!

 

Hi HerbertHopkins

 

Thanks for the comments. Yes, knowing Gilbert too, I think you're probably right; why would he even refer to Locoholism otherwise.

 

One little point; I can't agree with your motto about "not having buses". How else are passengers going to get to the railway station to catch a train?

 

ATB

 

Terry Davis

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The project looks very interesting!

 

The prototype was replaced by an LMR standard cabin at the level crossing hence the demolition of the old structure !

 

This is where a friend of mine works - he always says how lovely the location is! It'll be a bit of a shame when they're moved into Preston Power Box...

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One little point; I can't agree with your motto about "not having buses". How else are passengers going to get to the railway station to catch a train?

 

 

There's a couple of reasons why I chose that particular motto. First, it always seems, to me at least, as something of a cliche to always have a bus on a layout. I've seen a good number of beautifully modelled small, wayside stations that, in reality, probably only had a few passengers each day, yet there is always a bus conveniently waiting on the forecourt to take these passengers further. To illustrate the point, I often get off the tube (I think that qualifies as a railway - and it does have stations!) at Elephant & Castle, from where I have a choice of about eight different routes for my onward journey. It is not unusual to wait several minutes for one of them to arrive.

 

Secondly, I used to belong to a local club, along with Richard Wilson, where we had a member who was absolutely obsessed with buses, both real and in model form. He would come to the club with his latest EFE or whatever and proudly show it off to all and sundry, despite the fact that most other people were not the slightest bit interested. If you told him you were contemplating building a layout based on a certain place or area he would instantly be able to tell you who the local bus operator was and what sort of buses they used during the period of your proposed layout. When we were building a layout, that subsequently appeared at a number of shows over several years, he was constantly telling us what buses we needed, despite us politely pointing out that this did not figure in our plans. Eventually, when he was going on about it for the umpteenth time I said, more in desperation than anger 'We are not having buses on this layout. Got that?' He seemed rather upset by this and our relationship was never the same again!

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I am very much indebted to Peter Rigby for a very comprehensive extract from the working timetable for Hest Bank which will enable me to ensure that freight movements on the layout are as much in accord with prototype practice as can be achieved.

 

Thanks for reminding me Terry, I was more than happy to help.

 

All the very best for the future with the Hest Bank Project.

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