Meat by rail in the 1940s and 1950s

[65179]

As the title suggests I'm interested in what was used to transport meat by rail post-war and into the 1950s. Would it have been mostly containers or would vans still have been mostly used, and would they have been largely refrigerated? I'm largely thinking of trains conveying imported meat.

 

Also would trains e.g. from Liverpool have run essentially as block trains (e.g. as for bananas) or would the meat just have been a just a small proportion of trains leaving the docks?

 

If anyone has or can point me in the direction of photos then that would be great.

 

My query comes about as I was reading E.M. Johnson's Great Central Locomotives Vol.2 and it makes reference to meat trains of refrigerated wagons from Huskisson (Liverpool), but I've not come across any photos of these.

 

Thanks,

 

Simon

[AMJ]

I think that you'll find that the meat was sent as rare as it gets. Post war most meat was still sent in it's natural form, on the bone with the animal still being alive. Sent in many of the cattle wagons that existed until well into the 1960's.

 

Frozen or chilled distribution of food is a comparably recent scenario with the introduction of refrigerated rather than ventilated vehicles.

[coachmann]

I freely admit I am not a wagon man, but research shows the LMS were building meat vans that were refridgerated in 1924 using ice boxes. This melted leaving a mess and so the next batch used dry ice (solid cabod dioxide) that changed from solid to gaseous state. Their duties were later taken over by containers and no more vans were built after 1930.

[Charles]

I don't have a reply to your original question about wagons and trains/block trains in the

40's and 50's, but your question, and Coachman's response, prompted a quick look

at Wikipedia to see what could be found about the origins of the trade.

 

In February 1882 the sailing ship Dunedin sailed from New Zealand to London with

4331 mutton, 598 lamb and 22 pig carcasses, 246 kegs of butter, as well as hare,

pheasant, turkey, chicken and 2226 sheep tongues and arrived in London UK after

98 days sailing with its cargo still frozen.

 

Presumably, in arriving in London with the cargo frozen. no further distribution by

rail would have been necessary, but this serves as a pointer to when things began

to get underway.

 

During 1900, Great Britain imported over 360,000 metric tons of refrigerated meat:

220,000 tons from Argentina, 95,000 tons from New Zealand, and 45,000 tons from

Australia.

 

By 1935 refrigerated imports into Britain totaled 1 million metric tons of meat,

500,000 tons of butter, 130,000 tons of cheese, 430,000 tons of apples and pears,

and 20 million stems of bananas.

 

The Midland Railway built their first batch of meat wagons in 1881.

 

I seem to recall meat wagons were generally built for inclusion in express passenger

train formations, presumably so as to limit deterioration of the cargo due to

fairly rudimentary provision of on-board 'static' refrigeration (ice/dry ice).

 

I think the carriage of refrigerated cargo by rail, and how it was handled at loading

and unloading would be a fascinating subject in itself.

 

As a personal aside, I have long wondered how fish and milk which seem to have

arrived at Glasgow, St.Enoch in large quantities each morning would have been

unloaded and delivered.

.

Best regards

[Fat Controller]

BR built small batches of vans for both the conveyance of fresh meat (basically a version of the standard van, but with multiple end vents and side louvres, as modelled by Airfix/Dapol), and chilled (again based on the standard van but with no vents at all, and lined with insulation; available from Parkside). They built much larger quantities of containers for both traffics. Previously, the GWR had built quantities of MICA insulated vans, from the end of the 19th century onwards, for imported meat traffic from Avonmouth and other docks. The GWR ran trains of meat-carrying wagons from Acton Yard along the Metropolitan Line as far as Faringdon, where there were sidings for Smithfield Market. The Southern had similar vehicles to the GWR, as well as containers, and handled quantities of fresh meat from various abattoirs around the South-West. Both the GWR and LMS had numbers of passenger-rated vehicles, often 6-wheeled, for the conveyance of sausages (and bacon) from factories in the Wiltshire and West Midlands respectively. The GWR ones had diagrammed workings to centres well off the GWR, such as Newcastle and Sheffield, which lasted well into post-Nationalisation days.

[coachmann]

The frozen meat trains I saw on the North Wales line working out of Holyhead in the 1950s/60s mostly consisted of white containers on 4-wheel flats. I use the term 'white' loosely. For some reason, Stanier 2-6-0's were the most common motive power.

 

The meat vans built by the LMS tended to retain maroon with yellow lettering right to the end of their days on BR. The 4-wheel meat vans built by BR in the 1950s were white with black or red lettering. There were a multitude of well-known designs built for fish traffic, not to be confused with meat traffic.

[Fat Controller]

The frozen meat trains I saw on the North Wales line working out of Holyhead in the 1950s/60s mostly consisted of white containers on 4-wheel flats. I use the term 'white' loosely. For some reason, Stanier 2-6-0's were the most common motive power.

 

The meat vans built by the LMS tended to retain maroon with yellow lettering right to the end of their days on BR. The 4-wheel meat vans built by BR in the 1950s were white with black or red lettering. There were a multitude of well-known designs built for fish traffic, not to be confused with meat traffic.

The BR insulated meat vans were white, later powder blue; the fresh (ventilated) meat vans built by BR were originally in crimson or maroon with yellow lettering, going over to 'freight stock brown' when declassified for other traffic.

Here are some links to photos of the various types:-

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmeatvan/h31b6bf19#h31b6bf19 ventilated meat van, declassified to 'vanfit'

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brmeatvan/h31b6bf19#h32485cbe insulated meat van, in departmental use.

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bmfmcontainer/h236ae733#h236ae733 insulated meat container

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bmfmcontainer/h3eb77806#h3eb77806 fresh meat container

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/srconflat/h2ea05d60#h2ea05d60 SR Insulated container

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/srvan/h31f0bb9b#h31f0bb9b SR Fresh Meat Van body

http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnercoveredmerchandise/h34de9760#h34de9760 LNER Fresh Meat Van

[65179]

Thanks for everyone’s replies. I may have caused some confusion by sloppy use of terminology. I used the wording in the book I referred to which refers to refrigeration. The correct railway term would be as suggested above insulated. The insulated container diagrams of the sort Coachmann referred to in his first post to are shown in Essery’s LMS Wagons Vol.2 as “for imported meatâ€.

 

The trains referred to in the E.M. Johnson book are evening Huskisson-Dringhouses (York) express freights. Being evening trains (and goods) they seemed to have largely escaped the camera, but there is a 1930s view of what I assume to be one of these trains at Padgate Jct in Bob Pixton’s book Liverpool and Manchester Vol.2: Cheshire Lines. It shows an LNER B7-hauled train about half of which is container flats/chassis (i.e. a mixture of LNER and LMS container wagons), a good proportion of which seem to be carrying insulated containers.

 

By contrast there is a photo on the contents page of Essery’s LMS Wagons Vol.2 showing an LMS Western Division Black Five-hauled freight in the 1930s which seems to consist entirely of LMS container chassis carrying what are stated to be BR and BM containers (there’s also the odd, but very few insulated containers as well). This train is stated as likely to be conveying imported meat from the docks (which docks?).

 

Thus I’ve two views of the sort of train I’m thinking of, showing two very different distributions of containers and wagons. However, these are pre-war so I don't know if the same sort of thing would be seen in my period of interest particularly in view of rationing. A best guess in view of Coachmann's comment about the later 1950s/60s might be to go with something like the B7-hauled freight, but with more containers most of which are insulated.

 

Simon

[hmrspaul]

There are plenty of pictures around the web of trains of insulated and fresh meat containers, and the rarer wagons. As already mentioned they ran from the principal docks serving South America and Australasia (and probably North America). Many also worked from the freight ports serving Ireland - BR reports mention the considerable difficulties they had getting their containers back from Ireland. Photos on the North Wales coast show these.

 

Some of the containers, looking very poorly are at http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/bmfmcontainer

 

An early use of Freightliner was meat for Sainsbury's from Scotland - this was included in Modern Railways. Insulated Freightliner also worked to Ireland from early days http://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/brfreightlinercontainer/e116b83e2

 

Paul Bartlett

[The Stationmaster]

There were also imports via the London Docks (most likely Tilbury at a guess) into the late 1960s as Danish Bacon came that way (loaded in ordinary Vanfits on BR as it happens).

[Tim H]

How much meat traffic was there in the West Country? Seen pictures of 50s/60s fitted freights with quite a few conflats in the formations; would these have been carrying meat?

[Pennine MC]

How much meat traffic was there in the West Country? Seen pictures of 50s/60s fitted freights with quite a few conflats in the formations; would these have been carrying meat?

 

Depends what type they are Tim. As mentioned above, if they're white or ice blue, it's a dead giveaway. Non-insulated meat containers (BM) would be conventionally liveried but have additional ventilation grilles in the sides and ends.

[chrisf]

How much meat traffic was there in the West Country? Seen pictures of 50s/60s fitted freights with quite a few conflats in the formations; would these have been carrying meat?

 

Enough in winter 1961-62 for there to be a Class C train headed "perishables" from Penzance to Paddington at 3,40 pm and one on Mondays to Fridays headed "Meat to Acton" at 4.10 pm. The timetable does not show clearly how the empty vans returned to the West Country but there were enough parcels trains and rakes of milk empties for it to be accomplished.

 

In the same timetable there is also shown a 3.13 pm Padstow to Templecombe passenger and perishables which only conveyed passengers as far as Exeter Central.

 

Chris

[flyingsignalman]

I was told by an old shunter from Morpeth Dock (GWR, Birkenhead) that the "Smithfield Meat" train used to run each day from there to London. He told me it was thought that the proceeds from one of the trains would pay the weekly wages of the staff at Morpeth Dock. It was usually hauled by a 47XX and 4704 (IIRC) was stabled at Birkenhead at that time (post war).

 

Another clerk at Birkenhead told me he understood there was a "Gentleman's agreement" that the GWR would handle slaughtered meat and the LMSR the livestock from Birkenhead.

[The Stationmaster]

I was told by an old shunter from Morpeth Dock (GWR, Birkenhead) that the "Smithfield Meat" train used to run each day from there to London. He told me it was thought that the proceeds from one of the trains would pay the weekly wages of the staff at Morpeth Dock. It was usually hauled by a 47XX and 4704 (IIRC) was stabled at Birkenhead at that time (post war).

 

Another clerk at Birkenhead told me he understood there was a "Gentleman's agreement" that the GWR would handle slaughtered meat and the LMSR the livestock from Birkenhead.

 

Most likely a formal traffic pooling agreement by that time - quite a lot of those about over the years.

[coachmann]

Saw some old cine of a 'meat' train for Holyhead, and it consisted of 4-wheel wagons typical of the 1950s and 60s with white containers on flats, bauxite vans then more containers and some white and what looked to be pale blue vans. The loco was a Stanier 8F.

[Fat Controller]

Saw some old cine of a 'meat' train for Holyhead, and it consisted of 4-wheel wagons typical of the 1950s and 60s with white containers on flats, bauxite vans then more containers and some white and what looked to be pale blue vans. The loco was a Stanier 8F.

The pale blue vans would have been repainted white Insulated Meat vans (post-1963 livery)- I saw one of these, albeit in a seasonal fertilizer train, in 1972 or so. It had blue livery, though it was largely obscured by dirt.

[Peter Bedding]

Halwill Jn slaughterhouse regularly shipped out fresh meat carcases in van trains as late as the 1960s. Sheep were certainly a part of the trade, presumably beef as well.

 

PB

[65179]

Once again thanks for all the replies.

 

There are plenty of pictures around the web of trains of insulated and fresh meat containers, and the rarer wagons.

 

 

Paul where have you found these photos on the net? I know of your very helpful ones of individual wagons, but my various web searches have failed miserably to turn up any general view of meat trains (particularly for the early 1950s) – I’m obviously looking in the wrong place and must hone my picture searching skills!

 

I have a vague plan to model a Huskisson-York train as it might have run circa 1950.

 

A bit of digging on the web has at least confirmed that Huskisson Dock was still dealing with meat until the early 1960s at least. So something along the lines of Coachmann's post without the blue wagons and relying essentially on pre-nationalisation designs seems reasonable.

 

I turned up a few interesting photos of the actual handling of meat at the docks:-

 

Loading of an FM container on a Conflat S at Huskisson No.3 dock in 1962:

 

http://archive.liver...ge=22877_75.jpg

 

Link to a page covering other views of meat inspection and unloading at Huskisson (This link doesn't work for me from RMWeb, but is ok if pasted into a broawer):

 

http://archive.liverpool.gov.uk/dserve.exe?dsqIni=Dserve.ini&dsqApp=Archive&dsqCmd=Overview.tcl&dsqSearch=((text)='meat')&dsqDb=Catalog&dsqPos=4

 

A 1959 view of meat unloading at Liverpool Docks:

 

http://www.20thcentu.../2813/index.htm

 

It certainly shows what a different world it is to today’s containerised freight!

 

Simon

[Pennine MC]

 

Paul where have you found these photos on the net? I know of your very helpful ones of individual wagons, but my various web searches have failed miserably to turn up any general view of meat trains (particularly for the early 1950s) – I’m obviously looking in the wrong place and must hone my picture searching skills!

 

 

You wont find them by searching for anything like 'meat trains', because the photographer won't have thought to caption them as such, but there are literally dozens of Flickr sites with 1960s steam shots, that might have a few perishables trains. Or ask Mike Delamar, he can find anything

[65179]

You wont find them by searching for anything like 'meat trains', because the photographer won't have thought to caption them as such, but there are literally dozens of Flickr sites with 1960s steam shots, that might have a few perishables trains.

 

Thanks Pennine MC. Yes, if only it was that simple! I find I trawl Flickr etc sites with particular blinkers on (normally concentrating on locos or locations relevant to my interests) so have yet to find anything relevant to my query having only relatively recently broadened my search from the North West and the very early 1950s. Hopefully with the help provided on here my future searches will be more fruitful now that I've got a slightly better idea of what I'm looking for. I certainly didn't mean to suggest I was asking to be provided with the fruits of years of someone's research, but if anyone has stumbled over an 1950 view of a Huskisson-Dringhouses freight I'm not going to say no to them telling me where they found it!

 

Simon

[carlislecitadel]

There were also regualr block meat trains from Scotland do London. In the recently published book 'The Caledonian in LMS Days', there is a photo in the late 20s/early 30s of one train leaving Carlisle headed by a Royal Scot with a 6w Caledonian meat van behind it. Some of the LMS meat vans were branded 'Return to Northern Division'. In the Bradford Barton series 'Steam Around Carlisle' volume there are a couple of shots of lengthy meat trains heading from Symington in south west Scotland to London, mainly composed of containers.

[65179]

Thanks carlislecitadel. I'll have to have a look for those books.

 

The frozen meat trains I saw on the North Wales line working out of Holyhead in the 1950s/60s mostly consisted of white containers on 4-wheel flats. I use the term 'white' loosely. For some reason, Stanier 2-6-0's were the most common motive power.

 

I've also come across a photo of just the situation Coachmann describes in Coach's own thread on Abergele (see half way down the 1st post):

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/28644-a-brief-look-at-abergele/

 

 

Simon

[jonhall]

There would also have been imports (or exports? ) via the train ferry to continental Europe in STEF, Interfrigo or Continental administration wagons.

 

Certainly the odd MAV insulated ferry van turns up in photos at Hampton, and I'm led to believe it was horse meat for a pet food factory.

 

There is an interesting article in Ferrovisme magazine showing 3 STEF ferry vans, all lettered on hire to SR - I wonder if there were ferry wagons hired for domestic traffic?

 

Jon