42xx Hornby 42xx& 72xx - first glimpses

[gwrrob]

Any complaints can be addressed to K's .

 

Heres another one to have a go at Mike. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GWR-72-xx-Nu-Cast-Part-Built-Kit-/320899666320?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item4ab71c5190

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GWR-72-xx-chassis-parts-Etched-Brass-Alan-Gibson-Comet-/320899665792?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item4ab71c4f80

[Sidecar Racer]

Heres another one to have a go at Mike. http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4ab71c5190

 

http://www.ebay.co.u...=item4ab71c4f80

 

Thanks Rob, but one will do for now , though I will have a look at the Hornby ones , if the current prices

quoted are about right then its will be cheaper than doing another kit one .

 

 

Edited because I cant spell kwote .

[Coach bogie]

A 42xx model will be done up by me as that 52xx that was on the NYMR. So Ive given in and plan to get one of these.....

 

( Will fast be loosing that NER preference reputation if more people find out about these purchases... )

 

David. You could have 5225.

 

It ran in your area in 1925 (and it was fully lined for the occasion) along with 4700 and 2 x Castles.(S&D Centenary)

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Coach bogie]

But they did run to Salisbury and, if I'm not mistaken, on to Eastleigh on occasion!

 

JE

 

There was a weekday return working from South Wales to Salisbury booked for a 72xx. I am not aware of any runs to Eastleigh.

 

MIke Wiltshire

[The Black Hat]

David. You could have 5225.

 

It ran in your area in 1925 (and it was fully lined for the occasion) along with 4700 and 2 x Castles.(S&D Centenary)

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Lets not get ahead of ourselves here! Maybe your example could be done as a limited edition by someone.... you know. Special for 1925 - the engine that went from one end of the country, "to go from the other decent line, to the that was built first!"

[The Stationmaster]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves here! Maybe your example could be done as a limited edition by someone.... you know. Special for 1925 - the engine that went from one end of the country, "to go from the other decent line, to the that was built first!"

ooh, that was norty

[gwrrob]

Talking of limited editions.I wonder if the Paignton and Dartmouth steam railway might commission a 52xx in full lining complete with a Goliath nameplate.Totally wrong but I'd buy one anyway just for the holiday memories I have down there.

[The Stationmaster]

Talking of limited editions.I wonder if the Paignton and Dartmouth steam railway might commission a 52xx in full lining complete with a Goliath nameplate.Totally wrong but I'd buy one anyway just for the holiday memories I have down there.

 

I don't know how to what extent Hornby are wise to the opportunities the 42XX/5205 offer for such delights as 'special' liveries - and completely authentic of course. I hope they're up to the mark on this as they can do some really good livery jobs when they try and I would think the S&D Centenary and the two Paignton locos would be pretty good sellers into the modeller market and the RTR collector market (to the extent the latter still exists) while the Torbay locos are obvious 'treats' for those of us familiar with them - and they've got some Pullmans to go with them.

 

[dantimmy]

There was a weekday return working from South Wales to Salisbury booked for a 72xx. I am not aware of any runs to Eastleigh.

 

MIke Wiltshire

 

What era was that do you know? Could they have taken goods past castle cary in mid 30's. If not then i've saved some dosh.

[The Stationmaster]

What era was that do you know? Could they have taken goods past castle cary in mid 30's. If not then i've saved some dosh.

I wouldn't rule it out completely but according to the RCTS history their earliest work was on coal trains from South wales to Exeter and London and as they only appeared in 1934 I doubt they would have been seen on regular workings via Castle Cary at that time (or later). Their use on the Salisbury trains was well known (and not wholly popular with the men who worked them as it happens) and although I don't know when it started I would guess they were probably on that working pre-war.

[dantimmy]

Thats enough for me then, they do look great but I am going to have to pass on them. Thanks station master

[OnTheBranchline]

How does the 56xx fit with the design/timeline of the 42xx and the 72xx?

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Literally 'in between'.

 

GWR pre group designs and commences building 42xx for its South Wales coal traffic routes on short hauls where the range of the 28xx is not required.

GWR post grouping designs 56xx initially as replacements/supplements for similar sized machines on the various absorbed S Wales coal hauls of the various Valley companies.

As the S Wales coal traffic contracts the 72xx rebuild is designed to extend the range of surplus 42xx for longer distance freight runs outside S Wales.

[Happy Hippo]

Literally 'in between'.

 

GWR pre group designs and commences building 42xx for its South Wales coal traffic routes on short hauls where the range of the 28xx is not required.

GWR post grouping designs 56xx initially as replacements/supplements for similar sized machines on the various absorbed S Wales coal hauls of the various Valley companies.

As the S Wales coal traffic contracts the 72xx rebuild is designed to extend the range of surplus 42xx for longer distance freight runs outside S Wales.

 

Those 3 sentences neatly paraphrase what it usually takes me at least three paragraphs when I try and explain to those who are ignorant, but eager to learn, about the SWales railway scene.

 

Thank you.

 

Regards

 

Richard

[The Stationmaster]

Literally 'in between'.

 

GWR pre group designs and commences building 42xx for its South Wales coal traffic routes on short hauls where the range of the 28xx is not required.

GWR post grouping designs 56xx initially as replacements/supplements for similar sized machines on the various absorbed S Wales coal hauls of the various Valley companies.

As the S Wales coal traffic contracts the 72xx rebuild is designed to extend the range of surplus 42xx for longer distance freight runs outside S Wales.

 

Basically the 72XX was conceived as a replacement for ageing tender locos (the 'Aberdare' 2-6-0s) by using, initially, the final batch of 5205 class 2-8-0Ts which had been in store since new due to a decline in the coal trade within South Wales. In effect it was history going full circle as the 'Aberdares' had in turn replaced the 0-6-0Ts which had originally handled, often double-headed, much of the coal traffic out of South Wales via any of the three routes used for such trains into England towards London etc. It might also be worth pointing out that the original idea of the 2-8-0Ts was to handle work which required more braking adhesion or was too heavy for the new large 2-6-2Ts which had been designed to replace 0-6-0Ts and, to some extent, even 0-6-0 tender engines; very easy to overlook the fact that GWR was very fond of using tank engines for a very wide range of duties hence its relatively small, and ever shrinking, fleet of 0-6-0 tender locos.

 

Another point worth remembering is that the 2-8-0Ts remained largely concentrated on ex GW sheds in South Wales and made minimal impact at the original Taff/Rhondda sheds of the TVR and those of the Rhymney. In fact the few which initially went to Cardiff Valleys sheds were displaced fairly quickly by new 56XX locos although of course later some Valleys sheds - such as Radyr, become associated with the type, although the 72XX were not much liked by the men on the Taff judging by what many of them told me over the years.

[OnTheBranchline]

Literally 'in between'.

 

GWR pre group designs and commences building 42xx for its South Wales coal traffic routes on short hauls where the range of the 28xx is not required.

GWR post grouping designs 56xx initially as replacements/supplements for similar sized machines on the various absorbed S Wales coal hauls of the various Valley companies.

As the S Wales coal traffic contracts the 72xx rebuild is designed to extend the range of surplus 42xx for longer distance freight runs outside S Wales.

 

And the 45xx is a completely different group all together (the small Prairie and the 61xx is a large Prairie)?

[The Stationmaster]

And the 45xx is a completely different group all together (the small Prairie and the 61xx is a large Prairie)?

Yes. The 44XX and later 45XX and then 4575 classes were the small prairies while the 31XX, 3150, 41XX and so on were the large prairies.

[robmcg]

Basically the 72XX was conceived as a replacement for ageing tender locos (the 'Aberdare' 2-6-0s) by using, initially, the final batch of 5205 class 2-8-0Ts which had been in store since new due to a decline in the coal trade within South Wales. In effect it was history going full circle as the 'Aberdares' had in turn replaced the 0-6-0Ts which had originally handled, often double-headed, much of the coal traffic out of South Wales via any of the three routes used for such trains into England towards London etc. It might also be worth pointing out that the original idea of the 2-8-0Ts was to handle work which required more braking adhesion or was too heavy for the new large 2-6-2Ts which had been designed to replace 0-6-0Ts and, to some extent, even 0-6-0 tender engines; very easy to overlook the fact that GWR was very fond of using tank engines for a very wide range of duties hence its relatively small, and ever shrinking, fleet of 0-6-0 tender locos.

 

Another point worth remembering is that the 2-8-0Ts remained largely concentrated on ex GW sheds in South Wales and made minimal impact at the original Taff/Rhondda sheds of the TVR and those of the Rhymney. In fact the few which initially went to Cardiff Valleys sheds were displaced fairly quickly by new 56XX locos although of course later some Valleys sheds - such as Radyr, become associated with the type, although the 72XX were not much liked by the men on the Taff judging by what many of them told me over the years.

 

Thankyou for that erudite and informative view.

It relates somewhat to the role of the ex-ROD 30XX locos., a weathered Bachmann model of 3036 which I have just photographed, and about which I asked a few questions in the Hornby thread about profit warnings. I am thinking that quite possibly 3036 and here surviving sisters at Pontypool Road shed and others may have worked primarily from the valleys to the north and Hereford or Gloucester, others from Newport maybe the same, as I have not seen many photos of the RODs in Severn Tunnel working... these most commonly shown in post-WW2 as 2-8-0T and 2-6-2T double-headers.

 

In any event the GWR tanks would make a fine modelling sight, ... here below is the ROD Bachmann version, with what I like to think of a nice coal-train scene....

 

 

 

Rob

[OnTheBranchline]

Thankyou for that erudite and informative view.

It relates somewhat to the role of the ex-ROD 30XX locos., a weathered Bachmann model of 3036 which I have just photographed, and about which I asked a few questions in the Hornby thread about profit warnings. I am thinking that quite possibly 3036 and here surviving sisters at Pontypool Road shed and others may have worked primarily from the valleys to the north and Hereford or Gloucester, others from Newport maybe the same, as I have not seen many photos of the RODs in Severn Tunnel working... these most commonly shown in post-WW2 as 2-8-0T and 2-6-2T double-headers.

 

Rob

 

Those RODs aren't actually pure GWR though.

[robmcg]

Those RODs aren't actually pure GWR though.

 

Indeed not! Some even kept their Gorton (foreign) chimneys for many years after they were purchased off the ROD.

[D605Eagle]

Indeed not! Some even kept their Gorton (foreign) chimneys for many years after they were purchased off the ROD.

You mean their propper chimneys?

[robmcg]

You mean their propper chimneys?

 

You might think that, but I couldn't possibly comment.

[MG 7305]

Taking another look at the photographs, I notice that the 72xx is a first batch locomotive except for the gutter on the cab roof. This should be a very shallow curve rather than the flat V which is correct for the 4201 as shewn in the model of the 2-8-0. Happily the cab roof appears as a separate piece and the error is easily rectified.

Best regards

[coachmann]

I've been looking at GW 2-8-0's, 2-8-0T's and 2-8-2T's on DVD this week. GWR-knocking is popular sport but lets face it, this company was light years ahead of the rivals once Churchward took over and one company in particular didn't even see the light until the mid 1930s (LMSR).

[Penrhos1920]

Another point worth remembering is that the 2-8-0Ts remained largely concentrated on ex GW sheds in South Wales and made minimal impact at the original Taff/Rhondda sheds of the TVR and those of the Rhymney.

 

But the 2-8-0Ts did make it up the Rhondda on a regular basis. Newport had a few which were rostered over the PC&N for the Rhondda coal to Newport trains. Whether that was an everyday or occasional duty I don't know, but the Alexandra Dock Railway locos were generally old and decrepit except a couple of new prairie tanks. Another odd thing about these workings is that they appear to break the chimney first up the valley rule.