RMweb Gold Donw Posted March 9, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 9, 2015 I dont know if it would be feasable to do a cut and shut job on two brake thirds to produce a full brake. I know Worsley Works offers a K22 toplight full brake in etched brass (may need some extra castings). I can remember building and ocean mails full brake from hayes developments not available now I think. The one shown in the photo is 0 gauge rtr from western wagon works. Don Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiggy1969 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Is it not a converted Mail stowage van just going by the recessed doors Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiggy1969 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Worsely sides on Hornby 57 foot bow ender https://www.flickr.com/photos/94451499@N05/12659819834/in/album-72157641274289734/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welchester Posted March 10, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 10, 2015 Here is an interesting picture although a little out of period for OnTheBranchline's request. It shows Caynham Court in Sonning Cutting with a milk train including a very elderly Dean Brake. I don't have a date for the picture but I suspect it is in the late 40s based on the freshly applied silver livery on the milk tanks that has not yet had a chance to turn the typical grey/brown. http://www.paxmanhistory.org.uk/images/CaynhamCourt.jpg I would have put in in the thirties, because of the shirtbutton and clean condition of the locomotive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I would have put in in the thirties, because of the shirtbutton and clean condition of the locomotive. Yes, perhaps, but late thirties. The rotary cam valve gear was fitted in 1931, shirtbuttons appeared in 1934, but the white head lamps put it in 1937 or later. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 I would have put in in the thirties, because of the shirtbutton and clean condition of the locomotive.You could well be right. The milk tankers might be in white United Dairies livery rather than silver. Are any of these prototypical vehicles in plastic kit form? I am assuming you are working in 00 here. I am not aware of all-plastic kits of any suitable vehicles. The easiest kit-build option I can think of would be starting with a Hornby B-set coach and attaching Comet etched sides to convert it into a K40 full brake. The K40s were introduced in the early 30s and were another type commonly found on milk trains. I have done the same conversion in N Gauge using a Dapol B-set and TPM etched sides and it came out quite well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 Are any of these prototypical vehicles in plastic kit form? K's used to produce a K15/16 plastic kit. I don't believe it is currently in production but you might be able to track one down if plastic is your preferred medium. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiggy1969 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 mailcoach ie coopercraft do a k22 in plastic can be found on ebay from time to time going back to the photo of the milk train what diagram is the brake as it looks to me to be a converted stowage van Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 mailcoach ie coopercraft do a k22 in plastic can be found on ebay from time to time going back to the photo of the milk train what diagram is the brake as it looks to me to be a converted stowage van It is a K17 ex TPO stowage van. During the 1930's the GPO paid to keep one as a spare with this one going into general service with corridor connections removed and boarded up. The only etches available for ths were from Trevor Charlton in Zinc. I have modelled this train as per the Maurice Earley shot. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
twiggy1969 Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 thanks Mike might be a job for allen at worsely is there any drawings around for it that you know of ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted March 10, 2015 Share Posted March 10, 2015 thanks Mike might be a job for allen at worsely is there any drawings around for it that you know of ? I do not have them myself but I can check with those with the big binders full of plans. Here is mine from Trevor Charlton Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted March 11, 2015 Share Posted March 11, 2015 In theory, if a branchline lacked a passenger service on a particular day (sundays in some cases), you might have got the trip working being made with a toad instead but I have not seen any photographic proof of this.Going all the way back to the very beginning, I have just found a couple of photos showing what may be the longest milk run with a Toad brake van. The photos are part of a sequence from the 60s showing the milk tankers being collected at Green Grove creamery on the Aberaeron branch and taken to Lampeter. Aberaeron closed to passengers in 1951 and the branch was left primarily to serve the creamery. I do not know the full details of the working but I strongly suspect that the tankers would have been tripped to the mainline at Carmarthen for their journey to London. Aberaeron - Carmarthen is the longest journey I can think of for milk tankers to be running at such low speeds. I would guess that the service also picked up tankers from further up the line at the Pont Llanio creamery. A couple of the photos with the standard 4 are probably this being done. Not clear what brake vehicle is being used at this point but there is what looks like a Collett BG on the other platform which may be the brake vehicle for the trip to Carmarthen. https://www.flickr.com/photos/31890193@N08/14080341797/in/faves-39347043@N07/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/31890193@N08/14080230258/in/faves-39347043@N07/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad_Hatter Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 I got one of the K's kits of flee bay a few months for a reassemble price, but you will find it is slightly too long as it is 40' over the headstocks and not over the body as it should be, so is a scale 6" too long. The old Mailcoach kit isn't about now unless you can get one second hand, but the ones the first thing you will have to do is scrap the roof as it is wrong profile and make the ends the correct profile as well as it is too high in the middle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scratcher Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Regarding the picture from an earlier post in this thread: http://www.warwicksh...r/gwrsrh281.htm Fairly sure this is the Dorrington milk that ended up at Marylebone having travelled via Banbury and Woodford. There are various pictures of the Dorrington milk in GC in LNER Days vol 2, but none with enough detail to identify the brake vehicle, which the text claims was an old 6-wheeler in the 1930s. Anyone have any more information on that vehicle or vehicles? As the train originated on the GWR I assume it would have been a GWR vehicle and not ex-GCR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 1, 2017 Share Posted July 1, 2017 Anyone have any more information on that vehicle or vehicles? As the train originated on the GWR I assume it would have been a GWR vehicle and not ex-GCR. I know that in 1937,the train acquired a Collett BG. Yes, the Dorrington milk normally had a GWR brake vehicle. Collett K40 1175 was branded "Dorrington & Banbury Milk Train" for this service (although I do not know if it always worked it). There is a shot of the IMS plant at Marylebone with a Collett brake in this shot from the exchange trials in 1948. Unfortunately it is only partially visible so I cannot tell it is is 1175 or not but the window arrangement looks right for a K40. http://www.geograph.org.uk/photo/2498878 Here is another 1937 shot, still with a GWR brake vehicle. http://www.warwickshirerailways.com/gwr/gwrbsh47.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
vonmarshall Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Really interesting thread and a great train to model. My focus is on the Kingswear line and I allow myself to cover some of the Dawlish trains too, all based in mid 30's. I really like the idea of a Castle or King hauled long milk train, maybe with a couple of Toads or Brakes mixed in. Does anybody have any photos or reference points for this period and area? I am also interested in whether the milk tanks at the time would have been branded (i.e. Express Dairies") or simply silver. Any input or thoughts would be much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 The dull silver livery (with a small owners plaque) started appearing after milk tanks were pooled by the MMB in 1942. The 1930s liveries were a lot more varied and colourful and depended on the company that owned the dairy in question. A slight complication arises here as some dairies changed hands over the years. For example, the Lothwithiel creamery was originally built by Nestle in the 1930s. Some time later it was acquired by Dried Milk Products (DMP) somewhere prior to 1956. Eventually it ended up in the Unigate family. Sadly I don't have dates for these changes and that is just one creamery. The creameries west of Exeter on the GWML were as follows: Totnes (Cow and Gate) Saltash (Daws creamery) Lostwithiel (Nestle > DMP > Unigate) Dolcoath Sidings (DMP) St Erth (Primrose dairy) Penzance (Newbridge diary) Saltash, Camborne and Penzance were not directly rail-served. In each case, milk was driven from the creamery to the railside and pumped into the tanks. I have not seen milk tanks in DMP livery. This was actually a subsidiary of Cow and Gate so they may have used their tanks although I am not certain about this. I have not been able to find out who ran the Newbridge dairy at Penzance but I know the 2 milk tanks they dispatched were sent to Queens Park and Wandsworth Road in London. I think these were also owned by Cow and Gate although I am not certain. Primrose Dairy eventually ended up as part of Unigate but whether it had its own tankers or was another Cow and Gate subsidiary, I am not sure. This suggests that most of the tankers coming out of the Dutchy in the 1930s would have been DMP/Cow and Gate. I haven't seen any photos of Cow and Gate milk tankers, all I know is they had a dark livery with white lettering but I cannot even tell you what colour it was. Dirty silver is always a safe bet but I do not know what proportion of the tankers would have been silver in the period you are modelling. The 1930s were the period when milk tankers really caught on. Prior to that, milk was conveyed in churns. The GWR built a sizeable fleet of Siphons to various diagrams to handle this traffic and I suspect most milk trains would still have included several siphons in the 1930s. Brake vehicles would have been passenger rated so I doubt you would have seen Toads on a mainline milk train. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium OnTheBranchline Posted December 3, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 3, 2017 As an aside, there is a picture of a Castle with fish empties in GWRJ 7 with a Siphon on the end (the article is Fish Vans Part 2) but there's no brake coach? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted December 5, 2017 Share Posted December 5, 2017 As an aside, there is a picture of a Castle with fish empties in GWRJ 7 with a Siphon on the end (the article is Fish Vans Part 2) but there's no brake coach? If it is the photo on p285 to which you are referring then it looks like a Toad on the end to me. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium OnTheBranchline Posted December 9, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 9, 2017 If it is the photo on p285 to which you are referring then it looks like a Toad on the end to me. Ray. So an empties working wouldn't need the full brake coach treatment? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted December 9, 2017 Share Posted December 9, 2017 So an empties working wouldn't need the full brake coach treatment? The Empty working might be timed to travel at lower speeds than the Full one, so a fitted Goods Brake Van might be used. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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