RMweb Premium macgeordie Posted May 9, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 9, 2012 Hi Rich There was a thread on an earlier incarnation of RMWeb where one of the Forum members had done some research on the Hornby crane and found the jib is scaled significantly shorter than the real thing. He had made a new jib master and cast some in resin, unfortunately I have searched for this thread and can;t find it any more but it will be worth bearing in mind if you decide to go ahead with your project. In any event good luck, I have to say breakdown cranes always look good on an exhibition layout and attract a lot of attention. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich34 Posted May 10, 2012 Author Share Posted May 10, 2012 Hi Rich There was a thread on an earlier incarnation of RMWeb where one of the Forum members had done some research on the Hornby crane and found the jib is scaled significantly shorter than the real thing. He had made a new jib master and cast some in resin, unfortunately I have searched for this thread and can;t find it any more but it will be worth bearing in mind if you decide to go ahead with your project. In any event good luck, I have to say breakdown cranes always look good on an exhibition layout and attract a lot of attention. Ian Thankyou, ill investigate, the idea first came to me as part of my plan to get my 7year old nephews attention to modelling, but the ideas really grown on me, its the sort of train that looks good either running or just sat in a siding, and its a break from oil tankers or mk2s for my 40 and peak. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
darren01 Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 HI Have a look at this site may help out; http://www.bdca.org.uk/ Darren Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 Here is the Longsight crane in 1977, with ex LMS vehicles coupled at both ends. I will have to trawl the photo boxes for other shots showing more of the coaches. There was a road crossing into the repair shop behind me. Practice was to keep the crane as positioned and a loco at the ready on the other side of the crossing which was 40042 on this occasion. One day I was surprised to see the EX ROD 2-8-0 in unrestored primer & a missing wheel set buffered up to the crane set! Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted May 12, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 12, 2012 Hi Rich There was a thread on an earlier incarnation of RMWeb where one of the Forum members had done some research on the Hornby crane and found the jib is scaled significantly shorter than the real thing. He had made a new jib master and cast some in resin, unfortunately I have searched for this thread and can;t find it any more but it will be worth bearing in mind if you decide to go ahead with your project. In any event good luck, I have to say breakdown cranes always look good on an exhibition layout and attract a lot of attention. Ian I just happened to be looking at an old Railway Modeller (November 1969). In it, Peter Tatlow makes mention of an earlier article of his in RM for December 1960, where the Hornby (Dublo) model is modified with a longer jib. Says the original model is a hybrid based on the Cambridge 45 Ton Cowans Sheldon, by having a short jib, presumably to get around trainset curves. Kevin Martin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich34 Posted May 12, 2012 Author Share Posted May 12, 2012 Do you know, id totally forgot about radius of curves and clearence, what a dumbass, my curves are equall to 2nd 3rd and 4th radius, does anyone know if that may be a problam? Also if anyone has a Hornby breakdown crane could they tell me the overall height of the model from rail height. Got two road bridges to get it under too. doh Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madcaravanner Posted May 12, 2012 Share Posted May 12, 2012 In running condition -- that is with the chimney in the down position it is no higher than a coach or closed van but I will pop into the loft and get a reading for it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium kevinlms Posted May 13, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 13, 2012 (edited) Do you know, id totally forgot about radius of curves and clearence, what a dumbass, my curves are equall to 2nd 3rd and 4th radius, does anyone know if that may be a problam? Also if anyone has a Hornby breakdown crane could they tell me the overall height of the model from rail height. Got two road bridges to get it under too. doh Rich Peter Tatlow in November 1969 RM, stated that he took his lengthened jib crane to his friends layout with 15 inch radius (presumably 1st radius) curves, 'we found that the end-throw of the superstructure was positively enormous, following which it had to be barred from the line'. So not surprising that the original model had a short jib. Kevin Martin Corrected spelling of enormous. Edited May 13, 2012 by kevinlms 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted May 13, 2012 Share Posted May 13, 2012 In running condition -- that is with the chimney in the down position it is no higher than a coach or closed van but I will pop into the loft and get a reading for it Remembering that apart from Out of Gauge loads...everything had to fit within the loading gauge, and these also being used for accidents and the like would need to ba able to run just about anywhere to get to an accident etc. Khris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cga Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 Hello all Rather late in the day relative to the original posts but this item may be of interest regarding the water tanker https://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/yoursay/4517132.Letter_from_H_K_Carey/ In case the link disappears this letter stated: 'and a large long wheel base water tanker number ADB 998990' which belonged to the Stewarts Lane BDC Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted January 15, 2019 Share Posted January 15, 2019 'and a large long wheel base water tanker number ADB 998990' which belonged to the Stewarts Lane BDC Mike https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/stewartlanecrane/e3adf98c4 https://PaulBartlett.zenfolio.com/stewartlanecrane/e22a8ee99 - The class B tank recently available in several scales. https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/otpcranesetc Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kandc_au Posted January 16, 2019 Share Posted January 16, 2019 Thankyou, ill investigate, the idea first came to me as part of my plan to get my 7year old nephews attention to modelling, but the ideas really grown on me, its the sort of train that looks good either running or just sat in a siding, and its a break from oil tankers or mk2s for my 40 and peak. Rich, Here are links to 4 threads here that I have been watching: http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/137417-e-rs-cowans-sheldon-10-ton-crane/ http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/138982-Dapol-booth-rodley-crane/ http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/139558-ransome-and-rapier-30-ton-crane/ http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/135741-detailing-the-dublo-cowans-sheldon-45t-crane/ Khris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
w124bob Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 (edited) It's worth noting that some smaller depots in the late 70's early 80's lost their cranes but retained mess/tool vans. I've worked the Longsight toolvans which consisted of a couple of ex MK1 BSK coaches, the Bachmann pair are not perfect but close, or Southern Pride toolvan and mess coach are very close. At Buxton I seem to recall an ex LMS coach conversion in red running with a yellow MK1 ex BSK with the LMS toolvan lasting long enough to get a coat of yellow paint. Here is a poor photo of a combo mess/toolvan at Leicester circa '76, around the sametime I had a shot of a lone steam crane sandwiched between 2 BR brakevans being dragged south (for preservation?) This is 25032 arriving at Coalville, circa July 1980, only decent shot that would scan. Edited January 19, 2019 by w124bob 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted January 20, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 20, 2019 Breakdown cranes tended over time to be less used for their original purpose of clearing the line after accidents, as many of these situations could be dealt with by modern hydraulic jacks and road cranes, depending on the exact distance; fortunately there were less accidents as well, though one might have been forgiven for not realising this in Railtrack's 'glory' days in the late 90s and early noughties... In the time I worked at Canton in the 70s, the Canton breakdown was IIRC never deployed for a derailment (we were lucky not to have any bad ones), but it was in business several times for major civil engineering work, mostly lifting bridge girders into place. The vans, with jacks, lifting gear, and timber baulks for raising stuff and mess/tool facilities, were out at least once a week to some minor incident or other, very often on Cardiff Docks and sometimes in the Tremorfa steelworks, which had a very good free canteen... Probably the most difficult derailment recovery job in that time was a 37 that fell into the river Ebbw down a steep ravine at Cwm Colliery and took some time to deal with; this involved putting lifting beams across the ravine and winching the loco, and the 2 bogies separately, out of the hole they were in. The crane was not used for this; there was no room between the siding and the edge of the drop for the legs. There were claimed to be dead fishes in the cab when it was finally recovered; there was certainly a good deal of rather smelly sediment! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Probably the most difficult derailment recovery job in that time was a 37 that fell into the river Ebbw down a steep ravine at Cwm Colliery and took some time to deal with; this involved putting lifting beams across the ravine and winching the loco, and the 2 bogies separately, out of the hole they were in. The crane was not used for this; there was no room between the siding and the edge of the drop for the legs. There were claimed to be dead fishes in the cab when it was finally recovered; there was certainly a good deal of rather smelly sediment! 1200 Falcon was working one of the recovery trains for this. There was a published shot in Railway Magazine at the time. Mike Wiltshire Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rorz101uk Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 I’ve been trying to find photos of General consist of a breakdown train? Some have water tank and so do not. ive search google, I might not putting the right words in the search engine? anyhelp? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisH-UK Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 It might help to specify era, based on how you mention a water tank I would guess you are thinking steam era (because I've not seen a water tank as part of a breakdown train in any of my research) but I don't want to assume Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted February 3, 2021 Share Posted February 3, 2021 Haymarket's had a water tanker (converted I think from a beer tanker ?) but they don't seem to have been common. The gap between loss of steam infrastructure (water cranes) and a fully deisel fleet doesn't seem to have caused massive issues so presumably the crane carried enough in it's own tanks for normal use. Failing that, most stations are near a road and, therefore, a fire hydrant. General / typical consist as mentioned before - crane, tool van, packing van, riding van. The vans went under different names at different times and places but essentially the tool van was fitted out with jacks, ropes, slings, tools and a workbench, and the packing van (which could be a van, an open, a coach, or a well wagon) was used for timber packing and other stuff too mucky to go in the tool van. You don't always need the crane (a lot of smaller re-railing jobs could be done quicker by jacking and slewing) but you always need the riding van because that has the manpower and the kettle in it. Lots of variations on this theme. In my chosen period (60s) Kingmoor's 75ton crane had an LMS BT as a riding van, another LMS coach as tool van and what looks like a Gresley full brake as packing van. Hurlford's 30 ton crane had an ex L&Y saloon as tool van, a Gresley open third as riding van and an ex-HR 6 wheeled brake as packing/brake van, later replaced by an ex-NER six-wheeler. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montyburns56 Posted June 23, 2021 Share Posted June 23, 2021 Stockport 1977 by Hugh Searle 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montyburns56 Posted June 25, 2021 Share Posted June 25, 2021 Chester DMU Depot 1983 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montyburns56 Posted July 6, 2021 Share Posted July 6, 2021 The BR open wagon with the spare equipment in it is interesting. Low Moor Clitheroe 1976 Wigan Springs Branch Depot All by Martyn Hilbert 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold dmu 156 Posted July 6, 2021 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 6, 2021 Great picture of the Longsight crane on what is now a fuel road but there is still the sign on the wall 'Breakdown crane stabled here' Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
montyburns56 Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 Cambridge 1975 by Mister C 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamThomas Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 (edited) On 07/05/2012 at 18:29, 96701 said: Some of us are very happy working for Network Rail, and don't appreciate slurs like you make here. Please be more respectful. I used to do quite a bit of work on the domestic side of Railtrack (which was often called Snailtrack by many of their staff) & then the nickname changed to said offending name (again by their own staff. There are many other nicknames around such as ; Parcelfarce Totally Failled London British Telecon & so on - usually concocted by the companies very own staff. All very much TIC - some people are far too sensitive & could do with a GSOH. FWIW I am of the opinion that Network Rail & it's employees do a pretty good job under often diffecult circumstances. Edited July 23, 2021 by SamThomas 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted July 23, 2021 Share Posted July 23, 2021 Is there any merit in debating a perceived slur of almost a decade ago? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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