Jol Wilkinson Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 Andy, whatever the cause it is both frustrating and damaging to RMWeb's (and now Warner's) reputation. I am sure we all understand and appreciate the tremendous effort you have put in to set up and maintain RMWeb. Now that Warners are involved, perhaps you can use a bit of their clout to sort out the software/server providers. Jol Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold SHMD Posted May 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 18, 2012 Yesterday I had a few memory errors. One was when ever I hovered over my SHMD screen name to view my profile. I t would do nothing, (except 3white dots on a green background), for quite a while and then a memory error message would pop up saying there wasn't enough memory when trying to allocate 8202bytes. The second error message was generated when I tried to open my profile in a new TAB. (Win7 IE 9.0.8112.16421) The New TAB only contained the following one line:- Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 268435456 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 1 bytes) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/ips_kernel/classDbMysqliClient.php on line 488 Kev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 18, 2012 The peculiar thing in this case it's not like previous hang-ups where there was a steady decline in performance resulting in a lock-up which would take 5-10 minutes to clear. This time it's sudden but short with a quicker recovery time leading me to believe it's within the software rather than stressing the server. I know nothing about all this software stuff but here's something you might like to try (not a cure but the results may be interesting). I have acquired the habit of browsing RMweb with 2 open windows - both in VNMC with one starting from the newest post and the other starting from where I was at the end of my previous session. I occasionally miss things as a result but I find it a bit quicker when trying to catch up. Right what can then very easily happen - now far more frequently than it ever used to be until the software change - is that should I happen to come out of the two threads at more less similar times (i.e. in quick succession) I get at least one SQL error or get booted out and have to sign in. Also if I try to open two threads in quick succession I can get the same happening but in this case being booted out is the predominant result. To software numbskull me this suggests that 'the system' is suffering some confusion about my electronic identity - i.e it can't keep pace with what I'm doing although it has no problem with me looking at two different threads simultaneously, it just gets 'thrown' when I move about. Yesterday I stuck with a single screen open and the number of SQLs plummeted although freezing and slow responses remained the same, the number of booting off occasions also seemed to reduce but were still enough to be a nuisance. Sorry not to express anything in computing this or that terminology but the 'dumbo' explanation of what I've experienced might help? PS The first time I tried to post this it 'hung' and was lost - trying to open another window told me, eventually, that there was an error with the database. I then closed both windows, emptied the Safari cache and opened a new window - which got me to here and the second attempt to post this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 ...The peculiar thing in this case it's not like previous hang-ups where there was a steady decline in performance resulting in a lock-up which would take 5-10 minutes to clear. This time it's sudden but short with a quicker recovery time leading me to believe it's within the software rather than stressing the server. That's interesting, Andy. I can't say I noticed the change but, looking back, that is exactly how it appeared from this end. Most of the time the response is very good but, if there's any delay, I can be almost certain that an error message will eventually appear. Refreshing after that will either lead to another delay and error, or a quick reponse. It seems to be the app or extension that uses the WHERE query. Most of the problems stem from this source. Hope it helps. By Heaven, sir, I think you've cracked it! I don't remember seeing an SQL statement in the error messages that didn't have a WHERE clause. Mind you, whilst statements without such are possible, they tend to be a very small minority... Yesterday I had a few memory errors... Fatal error: Allowed memory size of 268435456 bytes exhausted (tried to allocate 1 bytes) in /home/rmwebco/public_html/community/ips_kernel/classDbMysqliClient.php on line 488 Interesting. I haven't seen one of those for several weeks. Nick edit to add smiley in case anyone thought that part was serious... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 The strange thing is the site racing along one minute and slow to freezing the next. One evening I attempted to upload some pictures with captions twice and got test-card-pink , which promted her indoors to come in and ask me who I was talking to! Now I just pop over to Facebook to code-break the things the teen-numpties in my family post before returning to RMweb. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 edit to add smiley in case anyone thought that part was serious... Just counting up how many smilies I'd have to add to my post in response to that. I'll let you know when I've finished counting... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 I have acquired the habit of browsing RMweb with 2 open windows .... Right what can then very easily happen - now far more frequently than it ever used to be until the software change - is that should I happen to come out of the two threads at more less similar times (i.e. in quick succession) I get at least one SQL error or get booted out and have to sign in. ... Also if I try to open two threads in quick succession I can get the same happening but in this case being booted out is the predominant result. To software numbskull me this suggests that 'the system' is suffering some confusion about my electronic identity - i.e it can't keep pace with what I'm doing although it has no problem with me looking at two different threads simultaneously, it just gets 'thrown' when I move about. That sounds like a 'write conflict' - that is the two connections you have open in the two windows are trying to update the same record in the database at the same time with different info... Best advice is to try and stagger closing threads a bit more to give the DB chance to apply one change to the record before the next update instruction is sent... I also often have multiple pages open (usually separate Tabs in same window rather than separate windows). I don't usually get errors or get thrown out like that but it sometimes fails to mark threads as read... Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 That sounds like a 'write conflict' - that is the two connections you have open in the two windows are trying to update the same record in the database at the same time with different info... Best advice is to try and stagger closing threads a bit more to give the DB chance to apply one change to the record before the next update instruction is sent... Avoiding such problems is not up to the user, it is a standard feature of any multi-user database system. Even MySQL has an adequate concurrency control mechanism. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted May 18, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 18, 2012 Avoiding such problems is not up to the user, it is a standard feature of any multi-user database system. Even MySQL has an adequate concurrency control mechanism. Nick It's normally down to the designers, on a web based system where data cannot (normally) be locked to prevent other users updating optimistic locking will be used. For example a thread can be edited and you will occasionally see a message such as "2 replies, click to see" appear, this is because the thread is free for others to "edit" (add to for example). However if you login twice and edit the same item (say a posting on a thread), only the last update will be applied and you won't receive any warnings telling you that someone is already editing the data, to do this requires pessimistic record locking which prevents multiple people (people here meaning sessions / connections / .. ) updating the same item. (The database design decides what "the same item" actually means) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 My god, there's some low flying birds on this thread. About half a dozen have just missed me today. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted May 18, 2012 Share Posted May 18, 2012 It's normally down to the designers, on a web based system where data cannot be locked to prevent other users updating optimistic locking will be used... Quite so, but I was trying to keep it simple... I hope you're not suggesting we discuss the characteristics of optimistic vs pessimistic concurrency? If we start going into the details, most people will lose the will to live reading these posts. Sometimes I wonder whether it's worth saying anything at all here beyond just repeating that "SQL errors are not your fault" every few hours. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted May 21, 2012 Share Posted May 21, 2012 I've been reluctant to post earlier, here...But, I must admit,... I did expect better, from the new set-up,... SQL / Fatal errors, as well as stodgy access and mid-view / post curtailment, seem to be the norm,... for now ?.... In the meantime, I'll go along with whatever this excellent site presents me with . As Robbie Robertson once sang " You've gotta play the cards that're dealt Ya" Regards, Frank. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Cram Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 There doesn't seem to be any progress on resolving the issue as I regularly get the SQl error by that I mean several each and every day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mod5 Posted June 10, 2012 Share Posted June 10, 2012 As do most of us Paul. Rest assured that it is being worked on and when there is any progress we will be quite happy to let everyone know. It isn't a simple task and the fact that it is taking this long to resolve by Andy, Jim and the software people is telling in itself. We accept it is frustrating for everyone and that includes us as a team who have to deal with it daily when trying to do any admin, housekeeping or even just post in our own right. Patience is being tested we know but there isn't a quick fix otherwise we would have done it quickly! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Trainshed Terry Posted June 20, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 20, 2012 I recived this error message at 10:00 today. I am not complaining just bring it to your attention Terry. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Many of us see them several times a day, Terry. The latest version of Firefox has yet another fairly pointless "because we can" feature where when you open a new tab it presents you with thumbnails of your most frequently or recently visited pages. Fortunately it can be disabled, but I was slightly surprised to see that the SQL Error and Driver Error pages were presented as if they were amongst my favourite pages Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Max Stafford Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Don't know if it'll help any, but I'm getting plenty of these at the moment. Just info, not a whine. mySQL query error: SELECT * FROM ip_skin_cache WHERE cache_set_id=12 AND cache_type IN ('css', 'replacements') Dave. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Yes, we must be patient - has anyone seen an improvement of the past 6 weeks or so? An Example: Wrote post with link to another site with photo. Hit post. Dreaded flashing green thing. Nothing happens. Hit reload to retrieve lost message - get SQL message. Eventually get back in and message totally disappeared... couldn't be bothered to re-write. Best, Pete. Edit: Sorry that was today approx 30 mins ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted June 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2012 I have a spare server with 'adequate' spec's if Jim's interested Jim can provide whatever server capacity Andy/Warners request (and pay for, of course). He has other customers with boards which are as big or bigger than RMweb, running without problems. The difference is that they are not using the IPS software. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave777 Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Yes, we must be patient - has anyone seen an improvement of the past 6 weeks or so? Nope, and I was going to ask if there had been any progress earlier in the week. I'm jealous of Tony though, his connection must be great if the SQL error is rare enough to post up - I could take loads of those screenshots every day! Any news Andy? Appreciate you've got Member's Day and Modelling Inspirations going on, just feels that reliable board access is pretty fundamental to RMweb Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cromptonnut Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I'm jealous of Tony though, his connection must be great if the SQL error is rare enough to post up - I could take loads of those screenshots every day! I don't think that anyone's internet connection makes a difference - it's server side where the problems seem to be occurring, I get plenty but just accept it as 'part of the experience' at present. That's why I always copy every post to clipboard before hitting "Post", just in case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Any news Andy? Appreciate you've got Member's Day and Modelling Inspirations going on, just feels that reliable board access is pretty fundamental to RMweb I can't go into full details yet but yes, a plan is now in place for significant investment and development. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 Ho! It took me three goes and one SQL to read your post, Andy. All I have to say is: Hooray! Thanks, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 All I have to say is: Hooray! More than anyone I've been frustrated with the increased incidence of SQL errors. Martin's right in that the bulk of the problem lies with the software but it's also true to say there are some much larger sites on the same software and it's also used by the NHL, NASA, Bethesda and NBC. As I've now notified Jim I can confirm the following: A decision has been made to move our hosting to an Irish based provider, whose director is a site member, based on their proposal to use three servers, one to solely host the database, a second the forum software and images and the third to host archive material and other software (including the old site) which will give increased performance and stability into the future with 24/7 support. Jim has been fantastic to work with but there's only so much one man can do. The transition has been planned for one of our quietest times towards the end of July/early August. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted June 22, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 22, 2012 Great news Andy. If anyone doubted the wisdom of the move to Warners, the sense of that move is now clear. None of this development would have been possible on donations alone. The IPS software can work well, but it's not server-friendly and demands massively more server resources than some other board software. On the other hand, for the full range of add-ons with a full-feature gallery and blogs, there isn't a lot of choice. Since Internet Brands acquired vBulletin they have steered it towards being mainly a vehicle for advertising as their name suggests, with the members treated mainly as click-fodder. See for example the range of automotive boards run by the Verticalscope group in Canada. Many of those were started as enthusiast-based boards, before being bought out, moved to vBulletin, and plastered with advertising. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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