Guest Belgian Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 It's been said several times, hightlight your text (Ctrl+A on windows), and copy to the clipboard (Ctrl+C on Windows), if you don't do anything else it's in the paste buffer, or open notepad and paste into there (Ctrl+P on Windows) - then if it goes wrong, it's a copy and paste exercise to repeat your posting. Yes, that's what I've been doing since the first time it happened but sometimes I just get bored with the whole thing! JE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 23, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 23, 2012 Yes, that's what I've been doing since the first time it happened but sometimes I just get bored with the whole thing! JE I'm sure Andy and everyone else is too - but we have to be patient, Andy has already mentioned that plans are afoot to help resolve things, I'm happy with that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Hi, Trecle mode is on again and the following SQL error message .... An error occured with the SQL server: mySQL query error: SELECT m.*, m.member_id as my_member_id,p.*,pp.*,g.*,ccb.cache_content FROM ip_members m LEFT JOIN ip_pfields_content p ON ( p.member_id=m.member_id ) LEFT JOIN ip_profile_portal pp ON ( pp.pp_member_id=m.member_id ) LEFT JOIN ip_groups g ON ( g.g_id=m.member_group_id ) LEFT JOIN ip_content_cache_sigs ccb ON ( ccb.cache_content_id=m.member_id ) WHERE m.member_id IN (6950,6683,136,7010,1191,158,12887,4034,1107,7197,9070,9335,13979,5224,6902,9071,14836,3775,6662,46,9016,243,7138) This is not a problem with IP.Board but rather with your SQL server. Please contact your host and copy the message shown above. HTH Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I keep thinking that it could be a case of missing indices on one or more tables, possibly from initial installation, or possibly because of troubles suffered. However, I'd expect it to be worse when the site's heavily loaded and Andy say's that's not always the case. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I keep thinking that it could be a case of missing indices on one or more tables... Why? The absence of an index would normally only slow down a query because it might then need a full table scan. The wide range of query statements and tables involved in these error messages doesn't really support any explanation at that level. My inclination is to think that it is more likely to be some form of connection problem between the application and the DBMS, either because maximum numbers are being exceeded (not because of loading, but failure to close or release connections), or because queries time out due to some cause such as locking or the DBMS being busy with some form of housekeeping. It's all speculation, though, as we don't get to see any error logs and those that do haven't found anything... Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 I was thinking temp table more than full scan for the issues. It could also be both, a slow query hogging the connection, preventing others from using it... However, as you say, it's all a mental exercise without access to logs, and even then not straight forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Why? The absence of an index would normally only slow down a query because it might then need a full table scan. But wouldn't the full table scans simply use up processing resources (and probably table locking) ? Some indexes may not be optimised (indeed probably some tables may not be, given the ad hoc design of the software I doubt if the tables are particularly clean). Even moving to a dedicated server may not cure the problem just simply postpone it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted June 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 25, 2012 The fact that these error messages are so random suggests that they are not the real errors. Jim has spent many hours on diagnostics for RMweb. It seems that there is no obvious problem with the database structure or the SQL engine or the server settings. The problems seem to be in the IPS software which is such a mish-mash of modules, hooks, templates, updates, patches and fixes that it is near impossible to understand the program flow. It's likely that it is getting lost in infinite loops until a time-out breaks the loop. I purchased my own copy of IP.B version 3 a few years ago and I found the code just utterly impenetrable even then. Since then there have been several upgrades, patches and bug-fixes, so I can only imagine what it looks like now. Extra server capacity must certainly help of course, and may indeed transform the performance, but ultimately a full solution surely lies with IPS. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 But wouldn't the full table scans simply use up processing resources (and probably table locking) ? As with anything in a DBMS, the impact would be mostly on disk i/o, more than processor resources, but they might lead to table level locking. Not sure what you mean about indexes being optimised but you could well be right about the design being a little ad hoc. Nevertheless, when not in its error mode, the system responds reasonably quickly so if the problem were at that level you'd need to explain why the same queries perform differently at different times. Hence my speculation that the problem lies at the connection or application levels. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardEyre Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 If the query/index aren't well matched, MySQL can go beyond a full-table scan, and actually create a copy of it in memory with additional fields from other tables. Obviously this is a lot more arduous than scanning the index, or even the whole table. Considering this DB has a 'read' state per user per post (for the 'next unread post' feature), you can imagine the volume of data. It would be interesting to see if new users (or even logged out users) see the errors as frequently, or at all. As Martin says, the issue is always with the software - MySQL is only doing what it's told in the only way it knows how! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 but ultimately a full solution surely lies with IPS. Or without Never liked it from Day 1, and my impressions on its programming "team" are well known. They are far too focused on what they want rather than on what the users need (want). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted June 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 25, 2012 Or without But what would you suggest as an alternative? If you want blogs, gallery, and all the rest the only real alternative is vB. And since that is now owned by a company whose main focus is internet advertising, you can imagine where their programming is leading. For example visitors on many vB boards now see topics where every third post is an advert, apparently posted by a dummy member. Built-in spam! And then would come the task of conversion. RMweb is now 3 times the size it was at the last conversion, and remember how much grief that caused. Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Martin, As we discussed before in this thread that is an "old canard" that does not have to happen! I urge you to contact Brian Scherzer owner of The Gear Page. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted June 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 25, 2012 Martin, As we discussed before in this thread that is an "old canard" that does not have to happen! I urge you to contact Brian Scherzer owner of The Gear Page. Hi Pete, I didn't suggest it had to happen, you can turn that feature off, or make it unregistered visitors only. I was simply illustrating the direction future vB developments are likely to take. Of course, now that RMweb is owned by Warners, a vehicle for internet advertising may be what they are looking for. So far that doesn't seem to be the case, and the latest issue of BRM is very promising. There is no point in my contacting anyone, because I'm not looking to change. I'm very happy with Jim's software which I use on Templot Club and I have no intention of changing to anything else. I don't believe Andy is looking to change either. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 But what would you suggest as an alternative? If you want blogs, gallery, and all the rest the only real alternative is vB. I really don't know it is a bit like jumping off the titanic into a row boat in the forlorn hope that a more seaworthy tub might appear on the horizon. As for all the gizmos on IPB the blogs haven't worked since just after we moved to the platform I can't remember when I last posted to one and they have become a big muddle on the screen due to their reliance on javascript. Equally so I have no use for the gallery finding it of little use, despite in both cases I know there must be great stuff to view in there. I struggle to get half of the basic functionality of topics to display and spend a ridiculous amount of time having to edit almost every post due to the useless editor supplied - it never used to be like this even in earlier versions of IPB. But some programmer got it in his head to mess with the code and here we are - a working forum broken by incompetent programing or project management. I believe the original decision to nail the flag to the IPB pole was a big mistake, though I understand the reasons and outward appeal of do so. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 As for all the gizmos on IPB the blogs haven't worked since just after we moved to the platform I can't remember when I last posted to one and they have become a big muddle on the screen due to their reliance on javascript. Equally so I have no use for the gallery finding it of little use, despite in both cases I know there must be great stuff to view in there. I struggle to get half of the basic functionality of topics to display and spend a ridiculous amount of time having to edit almost every post due to the useless editor supplied - it never used to be like this even in earlier versions of IPB. But some programmer got it in his head to mess with the code and here we are - a working forum broken by incompetent programing or project management. For the benefit of bystanders it's worth clarifying that this isn't necessarily the experience for all users; most of those issues are manifested for you because you've made an active decision to disable so much of the scripting. It feels a bit like I bought a car and you've taken the indicators off, poked a big stick in the electronics circuitry marked 'do not touch', urinated in my petrol and then complain I can't give you a lift to the station. It's a different thing if anyone finds blogs/galleries and anything else confusing and I know it's not everyone's cup of tea but some of my favourite stuff on here is in blogs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 ...As for all the gizmos on IPB the blogs haven't worked since just after we moved to the platform... Of course the blogs work for most of us, Kenton. You can tell they are working by the SQL errors... Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 For the benefit of bystanders it's worth clarifying that this isn't necessarily the experience for all users; most of those issues are manifested for you because you've made an active decision to disable so much of the scripting. It feels a bit like I bought a car and you've taken the indicators off, poked a big stick in the electronics circuitry marked 'do not touch', urinated in my petrol and then complain I can't give you a lift to the station. A bit strong perhaps, however the pervasive use of javascript to enable functionality when it (javascript) is most certainly not required is a also a fact of life, no more like a religion, with IPB. Probably 90% of the use of javascript can be avoided by intelligent programming. To continue your analogy it is a bit like you borrowing my car (computer) to drive to London before picking me up to to drive me to the station. I have no requirement to go to London. I think the Javascript message needs changing to "Very few basic functions will work". As indicated in my post, it is not just that they do not work it is that they used to work perfectly well (even i have a couple of blogs in suspended animation) it is that IPB have changed the code from something that did work to something that doesn't. The layout of the blogs, the editor and even the simple link "Follow/unfollow a topic" are perfect examples of change when it is not required. All because the IPB programmer has an absurd love-in with javascript. I hate the mentality of programmers who change code simply because they can and have sacked at least 2 for just that. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted June 25, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 25, 2012 At times my computer will run a lot slower, largely due to having to share the cable(s) with a nearby school. This seems to be the times when I have the greatest number of SQL errors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buffalo Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Phil, It's been said several times before but probably bears repeating. The SQL errors are a problem at the server. They have nothing whatsoever to do with our computers or the fibre, copper or damp string between us and the server. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 A bit strong perhaps, Possibly. No malice intended or suggestion you have weed on the server. it is a bit like you borrowing my car (computer) to drive to London before picking me up to to drive me to the station. I tried but the gates wouldn't open to let me off the drive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nth Degree Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 or damp string between us and the server. Oh, thank goodness. I was worried I would have to pay for an upgrade to dial up. Hang on, isn't string a fibre network?... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted June 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 25, 2012 Probably 90% of the use of javascript can be avoided by intelligent programming. Hi Kenton, Maybe, but great swathes of the internet now use javascript, the jquery library and other Ajax functions. It's not really fair to blame IPS for going with the flow and using the prevailing technology. Many users have become familiar with such web sites and can reasonably expect RMweb to look and feel similar. This is a hobby web site primarily intended for home computers. The vast majority of such computers do not have javascript turned off. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a site about toy trains to be designed for high-security corporate or government environments. regards, Martin. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meld Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Seems that I have opened a large can of worms - rest assured that I won't be passing on any more errors that start fights ... all I was doing was reporting a, in my mind, fault. Sorry to have been a PITA ( MIke Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 Not a problem Mike; it's an ongoing PITA for everyone. I daresay my brain will go into meltdown speaking tech stuff tomorrow with the new company. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.