RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 2, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2012 You don't need a starter next to the bridge, it's perfectly acceptable for the ground signals to be released by the block, just as running line signals would (possibly) be, it would depend on where the next signal box, and it's signals, were located, it might be there, it might be slotted as a joint starter / home for the next box, or it may simply be not there at all. As you've commented, there is no requirement for a ground signal at the base of the home, as there isn't a route there. The LNWR provided plenty of ground signals at some locations at other locations they seemed to almost despise them, and the LMS who followed could also then add some of the missing ground signals to aid shunting, but again in some locations they didn't, the reasons for this are lost in time, but to say the LNWR were frugal with signalling is one of those myths - the converse could be said at some locations. For example at Chester the LNWR originally provided distant signals for all the boxes, and some splitting routes, despite there being a permanent speed restriction of (a maximum of) 30mph through the station, the LMS removed all these superfluous distants as soon as they could. If you feel you need my help further then please feel free to drop me a PM - you have quite a few mistakes. I'm happy to help, my knowledge of signalling can be readily seen through this, and previous incarnations of the forum but it gets silly if we have several people attempting to signal the layout, I don't want to spend time correcting others mistakes. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyingsignalman Posted June 3, 2012 Share Posted June 3, 2012 (edited) Looking at the signal plan I realised it was similar to this diagram of Port Sunlight Sidings in its rationalised state with regard to the main line connections. Port Sunlight Sidings was also an ex LNWR box. Edited June 3, 2012 by flyingsignalman 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 3, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 3, 2012 That was my thinking too Keith ... the main difference being there would be little contraction in the layout (I know you know this but it's for other readers) - Port Sunlight once controlled 4 tracks, the frame, levers 1-48 + A and B (50T) was therefore a carry over from happier days. I actually own the original LNWR diagram for this box, complete with ringed slow line signals and lots of ground signals. This means the box was far too large for the 1970s plan (as per Keiths photo) Looking at Littletons the main difference was it had a starter and a home on the branch, despite these being on the line after hand points, presumably they were simply to force trains to stop as they approached the sidings, the bobby would then check what was happening and only clear the signal when there was no shunting occurring - or possibly after getting permission from a shunter. I assume the starter was similar, except permission for it to be cleared would be given from the colliery. I suspect this would have been altered by the end of the time period modelled but would have been present at the start, so to make life simpler they could be dispensed with and "Stop boards" provided as suggested With some (important) tweaks and moving/alteration of signals the plan presented is workable. The provision of a starter near the bridge would really depend on the distances, I'm guessing on the model there is little distance between the points and the bridge - an alternative would be to provide a banner repeater which would mean shunting could occur without worrying about providing a shunt ahead, or other methods of working, and could be used to simulate trains with a clear road, or trains getting checked. This would depend if the group fancy making a working banner repeater of course, if they were really brave, this could be a home and distant repeater ... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 4, 2012 OK, couple of questions for the group before finalising the signalling. Whats the thoughts on the banner idea ? Having said that two crossovers are not typical of LNWR practice, which they aren't, it is now apparent from the plan I've obtained, that Littleton did in fact have a second crossover - at the position originally drawn - typical. Now is the time to make a final decision as to whether the second crossover will be required - the option to reinstate it is still available. Is it in, or is it out ? hth 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted June 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 4, 2012 While we plan to run the layout with stock from (at least) 3 different eras, with the limited time we have available, the 1970s was chosen as our initial focus as this was the era which had the most reusable stock from other projects. While I have more than enough stock to fill Foundry Lane, this project still needs much more and in this thread we'll describe what we are building and converting as well as discussing the prototypes.The move to the mid-70s (Foundry Lane is predominately early 70s) also means there are types of wagon which have been out of scope previously - it also means some of the group who are more familiar with the steam era railway are having to come to terms with TOPS codes and air brakes Just to whet your appetite, here are a few photos of some of the Foundry Lane fleet which will be migrating over to the Black Country Blues stock boxes; some of these will also be getting an upgrade to improve or repair the battle scars of exhibition life. 15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Phil Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Mark, can i make just the teensiest comment about the supervan you have in your last picture - in respect of the brakepipe on the end. I may be wrong, but I believe quite a few of the first series of "supervans" were airbraked but also were vacuum "blowthrough". This means that as well as the air brakes they carried a vacuum through pipe on the buffer beams. On the headstock this vacuum pipe would technically have the metal part which the rubber hose was fastened to, painted white thus indicating a through pipe. The vast majority of BR owned ABN vehicles were fitted from new with the two pipe air brake system - red cocks for the train pipe and yellow cocks for the resp pipe. Although brackets were mostly provided for securing the free ends of the pipes, this wasn't often done. The difference between air and vac is that air pipes tended to hang vertically, whereas vac pipes were more curved, often fitted to the dummy stopper to achieve vacuum in the brakes. This really useful image of Paul Bartlett's excellent collection shows far better than my words, the pipes on a van similar to yours. http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/brventilatedvaa/h8c1f1ef#h8c1f1ef Hope you dont think I am nitpicking !!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pennine MC Posted June 4, 2012 Share Posted June 4, 2012 Mark, can i make just the teensiest comment about the supervan you have in your last picture - in respect of the brakepipe on the end. I may be wrong, but I believe quite a few of the first series of "supervans" were airbraked but also were vacuum "blowthrough". This means that as well as the air brakes they carried a vacuum through pipe on the buffer beams. On the headstock this vacuum pipe would technically have the metal part which the rubber hose was fastened to, painted white thus indicating a through pipe. The thing with that particular Bachmann model is that it's not numbered as a run of the mill COV AB, but one of the prototypes for what became the VDA. Production VDAs were AB only, but that one, having been converted from an early van (the type that later became VAB/VBB), may well have been vac piped. I can't say for certain because I've never seen an early period photo of it - it would be interesting to know what image Bachmann have worked from for that one. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted June 5, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 5, 2012 OK, couple of questions for the group before finalising the signalling. My preference would be to exclude the crossover - I think that on a layout based on a fictitious location it is better to have a "typical" arrangement rather than something unusual. I think a banner repeat would be great, not that often modelled, suggests there is more going on beyond the baseboard end. We just need to run these decisions by the rest of the group to see what their thoughts are - especially as it won't be me who is making the banner repeater - will let you know ASAP. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted June 5, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 5, 2012 Thanks both for the van info. Must confess, it hadn't occurred to me that this van wasn't numbered in the normal VDA series - 200077 would have become a VBB, if it had not been converted, I think. Guess this might also explain the COV AB code, as I would have thought the production VDAs would have been delivered with TOPS code from new? For this particular model (which was done as a bit of a quicky to allow me to experiment with some Bill Bedford spring units) - a renumbering into the "normal" VDA series is probably the next step - I want to try to get away from modelling atypical vehicles and add more mundane run-of-the-mill stuff to the fleet. Cheers 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 5, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2012 OK - I'll await confirmation and then work on the plan. Obviously everybody is invited to make comments, but let's get the stake in the ground first please. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium rprodgers Posted June 5, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 5, 2012 Definitely the BC Langley Green but a bit later 1990ish...the signal box that was boarded up for so long has gone 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold big jim Posted June 5, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 5, 2012 (edited) regards watery lane, it controlled the crossing at tipton and the goods loop iirc, the loop is still in use (as i saw a 66 hauled train from wolves steel terminal in there the other month) but as the crossing has now gone the box has too, as i only discovered a few months ago while i was route refreshing! as for iconic buildings/structures how about some iconic graffiti off the canal bridge by "the king building" between sandwell and dudley and dudley port, been there as long as i an remember...... http://allensregister.com/bp165_tojo.php it even has its own facebook page apparently! Edited June 6, 2012 by big jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted June 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 6, 2012 regards watery lane, it controlled the crossing at tipton and the goods loop iirc, the loop is still in use (as i saw a 66 hauled train from wolves steel terminal in there the other month) but as the crossing has now gone the box has too, as i only discovered a few months ago while i was route refreshing! When Wolves PSB was commissioned (1965) : "This signal box will become a shunting frame and will control the level crossing, the connections from the Up Stour to the Up and Down Sidings, the crossover between the Up and Down Stour lines also the connections to the Mond Gas Sidings (Tipton Works)" hth Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Williams Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 regards watery lane, it controlled the crossing at tipton and the goods loop iirc, the loop is still in use (as i saw a 66 hauled train from wolves steel terminal in there the other month) but as the crossing has now gone the box has too, as i only discovered a few months ago while i was route refreshing! as for iconic buildings/structures how about some iconic graffiti off the canal bridge by "the king building" between sandwell and dudley and dudley port, been there as long as i an remember...... http://www.flickr.co...aley/535170363/ http://allensregiste.../bp165_tojo.php it even has its own facebook page apparently! We used to chuck boulders off that bridge when I was a lad train-spotting at Albion station, just so we could see all the muck come to the surface from the bottom of the canal! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indomitable026 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 At last the magical smell of cut wood. Pictured are the 5 board tops and sides all out of 3/8 ply. Cross bracing next.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indomitable026 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 Cross members cut Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted June 6, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 6, 2012 Eerrrr that looks like sheathing ply, or is it just the board you are working on that is. Sheathing ply is poor quality and can (and does) de-laminate. just thought I'd mention it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Williams Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 The bridge can just be seen in this lovely photograph by Steve Jones: http://www.flickr.com/photos/tutenkhamunsleeping/5204194792/in/set-72157625459181136 My own pathetic attempt taken with a Kodak 44A can be seen here: http://www.flickr.com/photos/stevewilliams7/5204402212/in/set-72157623720723916 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indomitable026 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 Eerrrr that looks like sheathing ply, or is it just the board you are working on that is. Sheathing ply is poor quality and can (and does) de-laminate. just thought I'd mention it. Luckly its just the board i'm working on - but thanks anyway. I've laminated the long board supports now (in pairs), all ten are seen cramped up allowing the glue to dry 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indomitable026 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 I've just positioned all the component parts together to show how they go together - its upside down obviously.... Next job bolt holes and dowels before I fix this lot together 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indomitable026 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 I prefer to sort out bolt holes and dowels while the ends are not fixed to board/frame. This allows me use the pillar drill for the holes, but more importantly, it allows me to clamp the adjoining end to it and drill right through to ensure they line up perfectly - well as near as I can get it. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveArkley Posted June 6, 2012 Share Posted June 6, 2012 That's a great days work, including the stops for photography 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indomitable026 Posted June 6, 2012 Author Share Posted June 6, 2012 That's a great days work, including the stops for photography Cheers for that. Note; I always leave a 1mm overhang on the top. This ensures the top pushes together with no gaps. If parts of the lower frame touch first you end up with very noticeable gaps. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Mark Forrest Posted June 6, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 6, 2012 OK - I'll await confirmation Confirmation from the group that they are happy to go with what I suggested above. The crossover is out; the banner repeater is in! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indomitable026 Posted June 7, 2012 Author Share Posted June 7, 2012 Board two complete - the first board (don't ask!) Board 3 next - I think 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now