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gwrrob

SR Van B (misnamed as Gangwayed Luggage Van)

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Got the pliers but have never used them. Generally i like to get the knuckles spot on which sometimes means ripping out the whole NEM pocket and putting in a Kadee gearbox instead. In this case it looks a little tricky.

 

I have been running my 2 for around 2 weeks now apart from bending up the trip pin less than half a smidge!! absolutely no problems at all, a little extra weight in the van is recommended, if a lot of actual uncoupling is involved :yes:

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My weathered blue example has now been completed, it's all right I suppose, chassis may need a bit more weathering and the Railmatch Faded Rail Blue seems to have done the trick whilst the weathering does bring out the nice moulding on this model:

 

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post-6910-0-61173200-1339235641_thumb.jpg

 

I managed to crack one of the windows during the process of trying to remove the glazing (one side was fine, the other was stuck fast!) but left it as it was as it added to the overall level of grot that I was trying to achieve.

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I just installed Kadee #18's on brand new SR Olive Van B received last night in post and they were spot on with Kadee coupler height gauge. No tight curves so can couple closer than #19.

Edited by autocoach

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I saw these at the Chatham show today, but didn't buy one (although all the BR liveried ones had gone by the afternoon).

 

Surely I can't be the only person who thinks the "GUARD" is way too large (cf that on a Maunsell coach) - it looks to me as though it is in the same size font as the vehicle number

 

I suppose I can look for the Ratio transfers for my half-built kit ;-)

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The rail blue is Railmatch 451 'Faded Rail Blue' that was then weathered with Railmatch 402 'Frame Dirt' applied wiped down with cotton buds. Before weathering however the transfers were applied which are Replica rub on coach numbers whilst the capacity/dimensions in the upper right (placed according to the positioning found on one shot of the Van 'B's) was one I found on a Fox Transfers sheet I had, they were meant for a BR GUV but I amended them by cutting out the 30 of the tonnage weight and replacing with a correct 28 again using the Replica numerals. The NFV code came off the same sheet using a cut and shut of individual letters.

 

The 'Guard' lettering (which actually I think should not be there!) is standard Fox Transfers coaching stock embelishments sheets. All transfers were sealed with satin varnish before weathering to stop them coming off.

 

The periscopes were removed and the resultant holes filled with milliput, filed to profile when set and then a dab of paint after which roof weathering hid the scars to a satisfactiory extent.

 

I have just taken apart a second Van 'B' which will be in ex works BR blue when I get around to painting it, there is a bit of a queue on my workbench at the moment!

Edited by John M Upton
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I just got an olive green one. Very nice, but the olive is a different shade from the Maunsell coaches and Van C. Not a big issue, because there was likely a variation in the paint anyway, but more of a 'What were you thinking?' comment.

 

Adrian

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Is anyone able to say how easy it is to remove the bogies on these, please? (I have one that I want to convert to P4).

 

Thanks.

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Is anyone able to say how easy it is to remove the bogies on these, please? (I have one that I want to convert to P4).

 

Thanks.

 

I put some Bedford Bogies on mine. If I can find it I'll take some pics tomorrow. Once the body's off to allow you access to the top of the bogie pivot it just needs the lugs pressing together for the complete bogie to drop out.

 

hth,

Porcy

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I put some Bedford Bogies on mine. If I can find it I'll take some pics tomorrow. Once the body's off to allow you access to the top of the bogie pivot it just needs the lugs pressing together for the complete bogie to drop out.

 

hth,

Porcy

Thanks, that would be really helpful!

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There are two methods of removing the bogies.

1. push a flat screw driver  into the side and twist.

2. remove body and pinch from above.

 

I am converting one to EM with AJ coupling. I am going to post a photo essay on this topic when done showing removal and replacement of the bits.

 

By the way, does anyone know/have a picture of one of these in 1960 condition. I want to weather mine but trying to find a good picture is proving hard.

My impression is that they were green and fairly clean. Any help appreciated.

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Here's a picture of a Maunsell Bogie i converted to P4 recently using the method described on the ScaleFour website. The bogie looks very similar to the Van B so i guess the same conversion should be ok.

 

post-11105-0-13159500-1358017121_thumb.jpg

 

I used 'brightspark's' method 1 (above) to remove the bogie. A lot easier than removing the body i guess.

 

Hope this helps

 

Brightspark - look forward to seeing how you do the AJ coupling.

Ray.

Edited by tender

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Right here are a few pictures.

 

1. removing the bogie.

post-4587-0-81635000-1358032448_thumb.jpg

 

2. removed bogie, you can see how the relationship works with the bogie fixing. The screwdriver needs to be >2,5mm wide. The slot is not quite 3mm wide.

post-4587-0-07866600-1358032504_thumb.jpg

 

3. The slight damage to the plastic. I don't think this will affect performance as it doesn't appear to be a critical mating face.

post-4587-0-62627500-1358032468_thumb.jpg

 

4. and for tender, here is a before and after showing the fixing of the AJ.

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I hadn't thought about splitting the brake block assemble down the middle. I assumed that it was made of unglueable plastic. Ho-hum. I will explain how I did mine in the essay.

I also installed brass bearings for easier running.

 

I have found one colour picture of a B taken in 1961 on P62 of Steam on the South Western  by RC Riley. That is going to be my basis for weathering. It looks remarkably clean.

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As mentioned earlier here’s my method:

 

After doing a bit of maths to work out the correct buffer height with the Bedford bogies I filed the bogie boss down to be level with the bottom of the sole bars. (More about my maths later)

I then “m.e.k.’d” some disks of 0.020” plasticard into the hole in the boss.

Once all fully dry I used a scrawker to score a groove through the boss centrelines, one longitudinally the other transverse.

The plasticard disks in the boss were drilled 10BA .clearance.

 

post-508-0-87913100-1358087846_thumb.jpg

 

post-508-0-61018600-1358087872_thumb.jpg

 

I’ve never liked the idea of an etched bogie pivoting on a bit of thread so I tapped a bit of 2mm brass tube 10 BA and used the threaded tube to retain the 10BA setscrew in the boss. I can’t remember if I had to drill the Bedford bogie pivot to fit over the tube.

Next I cut four bits of 0.5 mm tube and superglued them into the grooves I’d made in the bosses. This meant once every thing was re assembled one bogie could pitch whilst the other was free to roll.

 

post-508-0-44758700-1358087958_thumb.jpg

 

So, once every thing was reassembled all worked well apart from my earlier maths and filing (No surprise there then.)  and the buffer height was 0.5 mm low at one end.

The tubes at that end were replaced with some 1mm tube bringing everything back level.

It rattles through an A5 turnout and along a “Wibbly Wobbly” test track at a scale 60mph! without a hint of roll or shimmy but that might have something to do with the additional 25 grams of church roof that’s over each bogie, so I’m happy.

 

Next up: it’s replace the rain strips and mirror Image all the brake gear on the underframe, as it’s going to end up a BR built version.

 

And for those who need to do a bit of renumbering the old SMS sheet B2 is a near (but not perfect) match. See below.

post-508-0-03857800-1358088130_thumb.jpg

post-508-0-12159300-1358088199_thumb.jpg

 

Porcy

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As promised, how I converted the Hornby Bogie B to EM and fitted Alex Jackson couplings.

The idea behind this is to show my thought process in approaching the modification and to demonstrate that it really isn’t that hard to convert to EM or P4. Although I did go up a dead end.

This model will be running on Swaynton as we need some quick and easy stock for availability. Although we would like to run very fine scratch built models we realise that we only have one lifetime. So we now think in broad brushstrokes to tell our story.

 I bought this at the Chatham show last year with a plan to run on Swaynton. At Scaleforum I obtained some EM gauge wheels from Alan Gibson and these were placed into the red box ready for the conversion.

 

Then I started looking for some prototype information...and looked and looked.

All I have is MRJ no 18 where there is a review of the Ratio Model. At least the Hornby model passes all of the points raised in that article. It seems to be a good model. However I am also looking for some nice pictures of the things in service in 1960 so that I can add extra detail and get an idea for weathering.

 

So on with the conversion...or conversion to EM how I dun it.

 

I don’t know about you but I always think it easier to get the model out of its box.

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What we get are the van and the little yellow packet that contain some “close couplers”. I had a measure and they really are not that close so we can safely discard them and continue with our plan to fit AJ’s. Remove the plastic packing and...

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Now this is where many people stop. The model goes onto the rails and they are away happily playing with their new toy. For some of us though the fun only just begins.

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This picture shows the nasty tension lock coupling. That will have to go! As will those shinny buffer heads. But nice little lamp irons and the writing on the labels is legible.

Fortunately Hornby now have NEM pockets so the coupling can be removed easily by pinching the back of the coupling.

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That should be better?

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No that NEM pocket looks awful. I will have to find a solution to that. The most obvious being to check for any “handing” detail on the bogie and turning it around, as the other end looks splendid.

Now I have removed the tension lock coupling I will have to think about how I am going to mount the AJ.

So I flip the model upside down and get out the ruler. I will need to find a point 65mm behind the buffers and ideally on the bogie so that the AJ follows the direction of the wheels.

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65mm seems to be sitting on the very back of the bogie. But if I turn the bogie around it will be sitting in the middle of the NEM box. Well that would be good but I don’t think that the box is actually attached to the bogie.

While I have the note book out let’s do some more measuring. Remember, measure twice-cut once!

post-4587-0-83233800-1358806149_thumb.jpg

While I have the model still assembled I will measure the distance between the frames using the internal callipers of a Vernier. Will I be able to get the new wheel sets in and will they foul anything else?

post-4587-0-92093100-1358806170_thumb.jpg

As you can see I prefer non digital callipers as although the digital ones are easier to read they can pick up errors and round up figures.

 

For those that are not familiar with a Vernier scale; Top row is in metric bottom row is in inches (or imperial). We want metric so we see where the 0 on the small scale is to the right of, that 22mm. Then look along the little scale to see line lines up with the big scale, so I make that 4 (well it is just over 4 see what I mean about rounding up?) so I make the width between the frames to be just a nadge over 22,4mm. My EM gauge wheels are 21,6mm wide and Captain Kernows' P4 wheels sets will be 21,75mm (max) wide. So no need to worry about thinning the frames to accept the wheel sets.

 

I also measured the width of the brake blocks. They are 16,5mm wide so I will need to widen them.

Now one thing I like is the way that Hornby have got the coupler to extend as the Bogie turns. I am wondering if this could be used for the AJ as coupling on curves less than five feet radius is impossible.

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post-4587-0-43449500-1358806206_thumb.jpg

Having had a good look around the bogie assembled and made sufficient notes, it is time to remove the bogie(s). I will do one at a time so that I can reduce the number of times I have to strip and rebuild and so avoid too much handling damage. I can also refer to the assembled end should I need further measurments.

 

From experience I have found that a screw driver with a head of around 2,5mm wide should fit into the slot at the top of the bogie hinge and a gentle twist will have it out.

post-4587-0-86662400-1358806231_thumb.jpg

This picture shows the relationship between the bogie and chassis. You can see the slot you are aiming for. It is about 2,9mm wide.

post-4587-0-75620200-1358806253_thumb.jpg

Unfortunately there will be a little damage as the plastic is soft. But this is not critical.

post-4587-0-71204000-1358806309_thumb.jpg

Underneath the Bogie we can see the mechanism for the extending coupling.

post-4587-0-76087200-1358806439_thumb.jpg

Unfortunately I cannot see how I can use this feature for the AJ which is a shame as it would help with uncoupling on curves. So it comes out and the rubbing plate is replaced. This is done by removing the two screws, lifting off the arm and spring. Then replace the plate with the screws.

Hmmm those springs might come in handy for something later, so they go to the spares box.

post-4587-0-35585500-1358806458_thumb.jpg

Here is the bogie and its new wheels.

But first we need to check the Back-to-back of those wheels. They should be 16,5mm +0,2mm -0mm. (that means that must be less than 16,5mm apart) To check this I have a gauge but first check the gauge using a micrometer!

post-4587-0-29920500-1358806477_thumb.jpg

I have been caught out before. I do have several gauges that I have acquired over the years and they do vary.

 

Please note that this is the correct way to hold a micrometer with your little finger hooked through the anvil. This way you don’t drop it!

post-4587-0-91855800-1358806502_thumb.jpg

Again you notice that it is not digital. It is also imperial so time for some math....

 

So for those not familiar with reading an imperial Micrometer scale.

This is a 0-1” micrometer. So we start with 0” it is bigger than 0.6” each mark represent one turn of the thumb screw and is 0.25” so we have 0.651” which is 16,5354mm. See no rounding so we are just above bottom limit for the B-B setting.

 

Now the gauge should fit nicely between the wheels...

post-4587-0-84545800-1358806527_thumb.jpg

But it seems that these have been set to OO.

Fortunately the wheel profile is correct. (Check against a wheel that is known to be EM or measure against the spec in the EMGS manual sheet 2.1.2.(1).)

Pull the wheels out by gently twisting until the gauge is a tight fit between them and check that they are the same distance from the ends of the axle.

post-4587-0-79972600-1358806544_thumb.jpg

Remove the old wheels from the bogie and also remove the brake gear moulding. This is glued in and can be encouraged to let go by gently pushing a scalpel blade underneath it.

 

On Swaynton we have had poor running with pin point bearings in plastic. So whenever possible we try to insert brass bearings. You can twist the side of the frame to get a 2mm drill in for the bearing.

You do have to go quite deep being careful not to break through. You also need to recess the shoulder of the bearing in quite away too. I use a 1/82 drill for this. It is a bit trial and error but the result should be that when assembled the wheels will spin freely.

 

Now I suspected, incorrectly, that the brake gear would be a plastic that would not glue very well. So I went off at a tangent here. I was thinking that I could use the same mounts as they are almost push fit and was even considering of taking a mould of the modified brake rigging and doing something clever with resin.

The simple method is to cut the moulding down the middle and glue the two halves on see the picture in post 63 by ‘tender’.

I chose to go down the route of drilling out the centre pin on the brake shoe. Cutting it off and remounting it. This was also in the hope that I could get the brake blocks closer to the wheels.

In all honesty it was not worth the effort.

post-4587-0-74845200-1358806559_thumb.jpg

post-4587-0-94524500-1358806581_thumb.jpg

Having wasted time doing that, I now considered the AJ.

The inside part of the bogies was now going to be on the outside. See what I mean, a nicely modelled bogie end.

post-4587-0-38851900-1358806615_thumb.jpg

That meant that I had a hole where I wanted to mount the AJ. The other problem I had was that normally the AJ sits above the wheels. But the moulding for the brake assembly got in the way so I couldn’t get the downward movement required to couple/uncouple.

 

So I drew out a cross section of the bogie showing all the bits that got in the way. Then plotted a route for the AJ. All done 1:1 so all I had to do was bend the coupling to shape over the diagram.

I have used the end brake rigging as the stopper for when the AJ is over a magnet.

Perhaps if I had split the brake gear I could have had enough room to get the coupling above the wheels. There may be just enough room. I am sure that “Tender” will give us his findings.

post-4587-0-19917200-1358806634_thumb.jpg

So bend up the Hook in your desired fashion then mount...

I decided that the simplest way was to drill a 0,4mm into the frame either side of the space where the NEM pocket was. There are two nice chunky vertical “L” sections. I soldered the AJ to another piece of wire horizontally and put that through the two holes. (This is the little anchor on my diagram)

Obviously the actuator (dropper) is much shorter so as to get the 1mm clearance above the railhead.

 

You should be able to see the AJ mounting here on the before and after picture.

post-4587-0-19737000-1358807425_thumb.jpg

I then glued using cyno the wire mount. Time will tell if it works in service.

Finally assembled and weathered.

I painted the bogies black and then set about weathering them and the body. I removed the body from the chassis to make it easier for handling during paint. I also added some weight to chassis. I use old car weights found around tyre fitting garages.

For weathering I only found one colour picture in period as posted above. I have found a few pictures of these vans in the distance dated1960(ish) and they always seem to be fairly clean.

post-4587-0-85253700-1358806716_thumb.jpg

I left the rain strips as is. Until I find a picture of this van in 1960 I won’t touch them. Study of the photos on Paul Bartlett’s site show them all over the place, although this maybe something that happened after they were painted blue.

Finally a close up of the rear end showing the AJ and the neater underframe. Oh and those buffer heads are now under a layer of greasy muck. Hopefully it doesn’t look too much like it has just fallen out of the box and will be acceptable as “exhibition standard”.

post-4587-0-14486000-1358806732_thumb.jpg

I hope that this hasn’t put you off conversions to the wider gauges. It should have been simpler and the next one will be. Remember I was feeling my way with this.

 

Andy

post-4587-0-40124300-1358806664_thumb.jpg

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I had to do something about those horrible white (silver) bars in the windows.

post-4587-0-31526400-1359752126_thumb.jpegpost-4587-0-86898800-1359752142_thumb.jpeg

 

I removed the painted on window bars using good old brake fluid. Applied with a cocktail stick.

Brake fluid does not appear to craze the plastic (Polestyrene?)

 

For those of you not familiar with this old tried and tested method...be careful as it removes paint everywhere it touches. Also warnings about the health effects. Wash hands, don't get in eyes etc.

 

I tried to add a bit of dust to the inside of the windows. I don't think I got quite the right effect.

The bars are from Roxey Mouldings Part number 4A121.

(No connection to the business)

Information as to the colour is a bit sketchy. With a suggestion that they could have been painted black or green. Definetly painted white in Blue days though.

In the photo I am working from they look brown, in fact the same colour as the buaxite plywood van next to it. So that is how I painted them.

 

Now that I have done it someone will come up with the correct colour.

 

Bars were glued in using 5minute araldite.

 

I also added a bit more weathering.

 

Now what to do with the "Guard" on the middle dooor. Any ideas?

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Having received my "scottish" blue model I got to looking at what needs to be done to fettle it a little bit, but I uncovered a couple of questions, which I'm hoping the Southern expertise on here might be able to answer.

Hornby have numbered the model as one of the BR built S251 -  S280 batch, but, from what I can gather from studying pictures, this lot had low vac pipes and a slightly different arrangement of underframe details, so, is the model actually a representation of one of the SR built versions?

Also, did the SR built versions have the solebar pipe, and was it consistently on the same relative side of the van?

 

TIA.

Mike.

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Hello,

 

I missed out on the first batch of these SR bogie utility vans and my BR Crimson version from the recently released second batch has just been delivered. On close inspection it looks to me that the body has not been fully painted and the body sides rely on the self-coloured red plastic of the bodyshell. Fair enough the roof and ends are painted but the body sides look a bit toy like. I saw the new LNER long type CCT in BR Crimson livery the other day and that looked the same.

 

Do the body sides rely on self coloured plastic or are my eyes deceiving me?

 

I think that I will give the body sides a weak diluted coat of matt or satin varnish and see if that improves the look.

 

Happy modelling, Stephen.

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post-17621-0-29454900-1388614349_thumb.jpgThere is a lot of information about the Van B in An Illustrated History of Southern Coaches by Mike King. It is in Chapter 11 Passenger Brake Vans.

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I missed out on the first batch of these SR bogie utility vans

Olive livery ones are on ebay just now, at inflated prices.

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Hello,

 

I missed out on the first batch of these SR bogie utility vans and my BR Crimson version from the recently released second batch has just been delivered. On close inspection it looks to me that the body has not been fully painted and the body sides rely on the self-coloured red plastic of the bodyshell. Fair enough the roof and ends are painted but the body sides look a bit toy like. I saw the new LNER long type CCT in BR Crimson livery the other day and that looked the same.

 

Do the body sides rely on self coloured plastic or are my eyes deceiving me?

 

I think that I will give the body sides a weak diluted coat of matt or satin varnish and see if that improves the look.

 

Happy modelling, Stephen.

I picked up one of the crimson models as well and I agree that the body is coloured plastic, this is becoming a worrying trend from Hornby at the moment, the LMS cct was only £13 but this is supposed to be a full spec model retailing at £28 its not a railroad price. I am going to give mine a heavy coat of dirt but I feel that this is step back back to the 70s with the Sentinals the ccts and now this model all using coloured plastic bodies! 

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Shame, the book only costs about £80-£90 at the moment!

 

 

Have you tried your library?

 

Where do you think the sellers get their stock from?

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Hornby red and blue B Vans at Corfe Castle station. The Sygnets, a group of young volunteers on the Swanage Railway, have restored a blue B Van in a siding at Corfe Castle Station and are using it as their headquarters.

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post-17621-0-47460200-1388684216_thumb.jpg

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For those interested, a certain Sheffield based emporium has them available for pre order at the very reasonable price of £22.95! Needless to say i have just submitted an order for a BR liveried one which, once weathered will go nicely in my rake of fish vans behind an A4!

 

Cheers

 

J

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