RMweb Gold 46444 Posted December 16, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2009 As I said in an earlier post I'm thinking of detailing a Bachmann Manor but the one major area that lets this loco down is the chassis. I'm no GWR expert but am I right in saying the Manor's were similiar to the Grange's with a smaller boiler and same size wheels? This statement is probably enough for Collett to turn in his grave! I do stand to be corrected! Other than the Comet chassis I have a Hornby Grange which is a beautiful runner and was wondering whether anyone had mated a Bachmann Manor shell with a Hornby Grange chassis? Guess the other question would be is Bachmann planning to revamp this model or will Hornby do it? Be good to see some pictures if anyone has done this conversion or has detailed a Manor with a Comet or other chassis. Thanks, Mark Apologies to GWR fans for any offence caused through my ignorance! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 16, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2009 As I said in an earlier post I'm thinking of detailing a Bachmann Manor but the one major area that lets this loco down is the chassis. I'm no GWR expert but am I right in saying the Manor's were similiar to the Grange's with a smaller boiler and same size wheels? This statement is probably enough for Collett to turn in his grave! I do stand to be corrected! Other than the Comet chassis I have a Hornby Grange which is a beautiful runner and was wondering whether anyone had mated a Bachmann Manor shell with a Hornby Grange chassis? Guess the other question would be is Bachmann planning to revamp this model or will Hornby do it? Be good to see some pictures if anyone has done this conversion or has detailed a Manor with a Comet or other chassis. Thanks, Mark Apologies to GWR fans for any offence caused through my ignorance! Yes the wheels are the same 5' 8''.I would also like to see a Bachmann upgrade on whats basically a Mainline model.I'm not sure I would be prepared to sacrifice a Hornby chassis on the Bachmann body though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted December 16, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2009 Yes the wheels are the same 5' 8''.I would also like to see a Bachmann upgrade on whats basically a Mainline model.I'm not sure I would be prepared to sacrifice a Hornby chassis on the Bachmann body though. Hi Rob, Thanks and I'm glad my memory served me correctly. I have seen Hornby Grange chassis on e-bay being sold separately so wouldn't have to sacrifice a whole loco. Have you detailed the Bachmann Manor? Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 16, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hi Rob, Thanks and I'm glad my memory served me correctly. I have seen Hornby Grange chassis on e-bay being sold separately so wouldn't have to sacrifice a whole loco. Have you detailed the Bachmann Manor? Mark How much do they go for on ebay Mark ? I've only done a rename to 7804 Baydon Manor and coaled the tender on mine . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Bachmann have said that the split chassis units will all be phased out in time, and are underway on the process, but it seems to be proceeding at about one a year. Even then that won't help with your exisiting model, as they don't usually sell the new type chassis as separate spares. Since you already have the Grange, you can measure up for the chassis fit. The one location where there may be trouble is fitting the motor inside the significantly narrower firebox and boiler of the Manor (the height should be OK, the boiler centreline height and firebox crown height and shaping appear identical in vertical elevation). Bachmann's mouldings for these older products sometimes have pretty hefty wall thickness, so you may find that even though though the external dimensions will acomodate the motor with room to spare, you need to get busy with a rotary cutting tool to thin the mouldings down sufficiently. The coupled wheelbase is identical, Hall-Grange-Manor, the Manor's frames slightly shorter at the cab end so a small mod will likely be necesary there. Undoubtedly there will be other adjustments necessary, but in general provided the motor can be got to fit width-wise, I would be confident that this transplant will work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted December 16, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 16, 2009 Hi both of you, Rob, off the top of my head I can't remember the prices but I'm certainly going to keep an eye out. Recently there was a Grange without a tender for sale and a complete tender from another loco. What's frustrating me at the moment is the prices Manor's are going for on e-bay. Even if you want a non-working or body and tender only the prices go through the roof. A decent BR version is going for ??45 or more and Frilsham Manor (Ltd Etd) is going for ??80 or more! Saying that, I'm after any version preferably a non-runner as I want to change the chimney to a BR pattern one and repaint it. Thanks also for the dimensional guides. I agree with the comment on the old Mainline models having thick plastic. Sounds like the Dremel could be busy! Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 16, 2009 Share Posted December 16, 2009 Mark, I misread your OP and assumed you actually had a Manor, sorry about that. Have you thought about asking in 'Wanted' here? I have had success sourcing bits and pieces this way for my various bashing projects over the past few years. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talyllyn1 Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 I've managed to put a Bachmann Manor body on a Hornby Grange chassis. A lot of filing and cutting involved. You need to reduce the length of the chassis at the back and reshape it at the front. Also, the edges of the firebox need to be filed to get the motor into the body - a bit of a "trial and error" job. The motor spindle fouls the firebox backhead, but I also wanted a "glowing firebox" LED and there is insufficient room to do this, so I hacked off the firebox backhead and used a plastic one from an old Airfix City of Truro and positioned it slightly further back in the cab. Not strictly accurate, but the easiest way I could think of to do it! This one has a sound decoder and I've used a Comet etched front bogie. The BR chimney came from Markits and I've filed off the too-thick cladding sheet on the firebox top (looking at the photos I wish now I'd filed down those awfully thick cladding bands on the firebox sides - I did the boiler ones before relining). Nice slow crawler but it won't pull much more than 4 coaches - there's not a lot of room to add weight. I bought the GWR green version of the Grange (LLanfair Grange?) and this has the bonus of coming with the correct tender for the Manor. I'm now holding my breath to see if Bachmann upgrade their Manor in 2010 and make all this work a waste of time! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted December 17, 2009 Share Posted December 17, 2009 Neat looking end result, that gives no clue to the internal carving required. There's an evens chance you will have at least five years to enjoy this conversion, before Bach revise their Manor; this on the basis that they seem to be updating one existing split chassis model a year, and they have at least ten to go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted December 17, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2009 Neat looking end result, that gives no clue to the internal carving required. There's an evens chance you will have at least five years to enjoy this conversion, before Bach revise their Manor; this on the basis that they seem to be updating one existing split chassis model a year, and they have at least ten to go. Hi Talyllyn, That looks superb and 7802 as well! I used to live in Newton Abbot so Bradley Manor was a stones throw away. This and 7823 Hook Norton Manor are my favourites though the latter may have something to do with the fine ales! I really like the look of this model-it captures the lines of the Manor so well and goes to show what can be done with an older model. It would be hard to tell it from a current mainstream model. Thanks for the hints and tips as well. Now just need to find that Manor shell and the GWR Grange you used. It's crazy really. All Hornby need to do is produce a new Manor bodyshell and bingo! A state of the art Manor! Thanks once again. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted December 17, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 17, 2009 Hi once again, What lining transfers did you use? Especially those inside the splashers? Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 18, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2009 Just for comparison purposes heres my renamed Bachmann version.Fox probably do the transfers Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted December 18, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2009 Hi Rob, Nice model, a fine picture representative of the class and your layout looks good too. There's something about the Manor-it's proportions and lines are just right. You're not tempted to try this Talyllyn's conversion now are you? Thanks, once again. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 18, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2009 Hi Rob, You're not tempted to try this Talyllyn's conversion now are you? Thanks, once again. Mark Only when I definitely know that Bachmann aren't upgrading theirs . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talyllyn1 Posted December 18, 2009 Share Posted December 18, 2009 Hi once again, What lining transfers did you use? Especially those inside the splashers? Mark Hi Mark, The boiler bands,cylinders cab and tender sides are Modelmaster No 8870, which is a finer scale version of their No 4081. The splashers and name and numberplates were done with good old HMRS Methfix, cut into small sections and applied under a strong magnifying lamp - a bit tedious and nearly resulting in the first "Flying Manor"! Since these pictures the loco has gained a Fox "Cambrian Coast Express" headboard, front lamps, crew and fuse wire fire-irons. I've now started on 7812 "Erlestoke Manor". This will use the existing split-chassis and I'm going to see what I can do to improve it. Truth to tell, I don't want to go to the time and expense of doing another Grange conversion. Why 2 Manors? Well, back in 1965 I travelled on the Talyllyn RPS special AGM train from Shrewsbury to Towyn behind 7802 and 7812. Little did I realise then that they would both be a few miles away from me now, at Bridgnorth! Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted December 18, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 18, 2009 Hi Dave, Hope you're going to keep us up-to-date with 7812. I'd be pleased to see how this project progresses. Thanks for the story as well-and yes you are fortunate to be close to these two engines. What a coincidence! Cheers, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy M Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Mark, Here is another conversion combination for you to consider. The pictured model of 7814 used the Bachmann body sat on the revised Comet Chassis with a few other refinements, most notably the rebuilt firebox top. As I model in EM Gauge messing around with the original split frame chassis was never going to be an option, so Comet seemed the most straight forward choice. I have a second loco (7809 in lined green) nearing completion on the workbench, again using the new sprung version chassis kit. I had never thought of using the Hornby Grange mechanism but having seen Talyllyn's model of 7802 earlier in the thread I could be tempted to do a third loco using this and an Ultrascale replacement wheel set. After all you can't have too many Manors sat on shed now can you! Anyway here is Fringford Manor with the original image that provided the inspiration. Regards, Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 23, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2009 Mark, Here is another conversion combination for you to consider. The pictured model of 7814 used the Bachmann body sat on the revised Comet Chassis with a few other refinements, most notably the rebuilt firebox top. As I model in EM Gauge messing around with the original split frame chassis was never going to be an option, so Comet seemed the most straight forward choice. I have a second loco (7809 in lined green) nearing completion on the workbench, again using the new sprung version chassis kit. I had never thought of using the Hornby Grange mechanism but having seen Talyllyn's model of 7802 earlier in the thread I could be tempted to do a third loco using this and an Ultrascale replacement wheel set. After all you can't have too many Manors sat on shed now can you! Anyway here is Freshford Manor with the original image that provided the inspiration. Regards, Andy. Which ones the model Andy ? :icon_thumbsup2: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted December 23, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2009 Hi Andy, I agree with Rob-I had to look twice thinking they were both prototype pictures. Well done and a superb model. Be good to see it in colour as well. Rob was right about East Kent Models for supply of Manor bodyshells (All types) and matching tenders. The shell for 7823 Hook Norton Manor was ??10-not bad. My local model shop E J Models and More in Wellingborough was clearing out some older models including 6818 Hardwick Grange in GWR shirt button livery and 3500 gallon tender for ??55 so I snapped it up. She looks beautiful and it will be a shame to sacrifice her! Just compared the Manor to the Grange and yes I agree with what Tallylyn said about modifying the front and rear of the chassis. One other thing I have noted and forgive my GWR ignorance is that the Manor's cab is shorter than the Grange's when comparing these two models. I would have thought the cabs were a standard size so should be the same-or is this the smaller cab on the Manor correct? The Manor is one of my favourite loco designs and not being a GWR modeller makes a refreshing change from BR MR/ER steam and Cornish Class 37's adding a bit of class with all the copper and brass trimmings and those beautifull nameplates set against the green-or am I just romantasising? Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 23, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2009 Hi Andy, I agree with Rob-I had to look twice thinking they were both prototype pictures. Well done and a superb model. Be good to see it in colour as well. Rob was right about East Kent Models for supply of Manor bodyshells (All types) and matching tenders. The shell for 7823 Hook Norton Manor was ??10-not bad. My local model shop E J Models and More in Wellingborough was clearing out some older models including 6818 Hardwick Grange in GWR shirt button livery and 3500 gallon tender for ??55 so I snapped it up. She looks beautiful and it will be a shame to sacrifice her! Mark Glad to be of help Mark.Thats a good price for the Grange.Is that other model shop still going in Wellingboro ,its a while since I was in that neck of the woods. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted December 23, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2009 Hi Rob, Do you mean T & R Models? Martin and Rose retired recently and Eric has taken over the business. He's pretty forward thinking and has major plans for the shop and developing the website business. Be good to see some more images of your layout posted on the site as well. Cheers, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted December 23, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 23, 2009 Hi Andy, Quick question for you re: 7814. What BR pattern chimney and whistle guard did you use? Also as Talyllyn and yourself have modified the top of the firebox-can you identify the inaccuracies in this area? Thanks, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy M Posted December 24, 2009 Share Posted December 24, 2009 Hi Andy, Quick question for you re: 7814. What BR pattern chimney and whistle guard did you use? Also as Talyllyn and yourself have modified the top of the firebox-can you identify the inaccuracies in this area? Thanks, Mark Hi Mark, The chimney on 7814 is the original version with the capuchon on the lip which some of the class retained well into the late 1950's. It is a DMR Models turned brass part. I'm pretty sure he also does the later concave version you are after. For whistle shields I tend to use the etched Alan Gibson version, although some are the long lost Crownline parts that have sat in the spares box for an age. With regards to the firebox top, the moulding on the Mainline/Bachmann body is way too pronounced. In reality it sits almost flush, compare with the Hornby Grange which is much more accurate. You can either file it down as Talyllyn has done or cut it out and replace with plasticard as on 7814. At the same time remove the cladding bands which again are much too thick and replace with brass strip. A bit of a daunting task if you are wary of hacking up your body but well worth it for the final improved look. Hope that helps, Andy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold gwrrob Posted December 24, 2009 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 24, 2009 Hi Rob, Do you mean T & R Models? Martin and Rose retired recently and Eric has taken over the business. He's pretty forward thinking and has major plans for the shop and developing the website business. Be good to see some more images of your layout posted on the site as well. Cheers, Mark Thats them Mark.I'm glad they're still going.I'm working on doing some more photos but my station area lacks buildings and looks bare.Doing some trees at the moment and if the weather improves I will be out planting them ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 46444 Posted December 24, 2009 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 24, 2009 Hi both of you, Firstly, Andy thanks for the information. I'll chase up the DMR chimney in the new year as it looks very finely detailed compared to some of the others I have seen. What is it made from? Does it have a representation of the copper cap also? Thanks Rob, tree planting eh? Sounds a bit cold for that and the grounds frozen! Hope you've got a mini-excavator handy? From what I can see of your layout it's coming together and just needs those finishing touches-like tree's! I'm working tomorrow then away for three days. I'm packing up one of my Ivatt 2mt's to put the lining on to it after respraying it. Not sure yet if it's going to be a 15B or 31A engine. Best take some books as well! Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to you both. Is that a Manor Hornby are producing next year? Cheers, Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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