Jump to content

chris p bacon

Sandy, GN & LNWR, Sandy & Potton Tramway.

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

I made a start and within a few minutes had a large pile of plastic dust stuck to me and the bench!

 

If using a course wet and dry perhaps using it wet?

  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

 

 

I made a start and within a few minutes had a large pile of plastic dust stuck to me and the bench!

 

 

Wonderful, real model making. I find the vacuum cleaner is handy, less problems regarding the reaction of Mrs M finding the living room full of white dust when she gets up. Even working in the play room I tend to walk it all over the house. A file card is essential, not to placate Mrs M but to keep the files in clean and working as they should do. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

A plane, small or otherwise, is a tool designed to make or keep something flat and or square. Unless it's a molding plane which will have a profile ground into the blade and can only be used to make the molding profile it was designed for. It is not really suitable for profiling roofs. 

A spoke shave is the chappy you need and you can get them quite small as well. It's used by wheelwrights and coopers. You will need to practice with it a LOT before you put it anywhere near a model. Veritas make a very nice one for around £40 and is available new on ebay.

Regards Lez.   

Edited by lezz01

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

To be honest the best thing to use would be a belt sander or linnisher, but then again you will still have the problem of excess dust. You can either use it outside or build some sort of isolator around it out of perspex with arm holes and gloves and a port to attach a vacuum cleaner. It doesn't need to cost you a fortune just a sheet of perspex, a bit of flexible extractor pipe, a couple of flanges and some heavy duty gloves. There are all sorts of things readily available for kitchen extraction that you can use. It all depends on whether you are going to use it enough to warrant building it. I can knock you up a design for it using readily available components if you like but like I said how much do you think you will actually use it.

The real problem is that it will all get out of control when really you could have just used a sanding block outside on a nice day in the first place. It just depends how many ex- US/midland Pullman cars you intend to build or how many odd profile roof sections you need to fabricate out of plastic to make the time and effort and expense of automating the process worth while. Now if it was for a club workshop that would be a different mater it would be a godsend for that situation.    

Regards Lez.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I find its amazing how easy it is to use a normal scalpel blade to shape with. I use mine in a Swan Morton brass holder (the ones where the blade goes inside it), and if you hold the knife at 90* and vertically  to the bit you want to fettle, and then draw the blade towards you, it will peel a lovely bit off, and its much quicker than sanding to get the rough shape, which can then be final shaped by files or paper.

 

Andy G 

  • Like 1
  • Agree 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I only use files to get the shape. A bit of pre-planing, like measuring the end elevation to get the roof dimensions is a good idea. 

 

Quote

I take it you mean pre-planning, as opposed to pre-planing?

Thank you for embarrassing me. Try living with dyslexia.

 

919098847_Picture018b.jpg.ca70083020bf2cf8b496dba86cc1cc76.jpg

Make your ornamental steps

 

768396646_Picture022b.jpg.3e4905ae1be81b4891a9ad56e07c7a42.jpg

File to shape

 

285527432_Picture025b.jpg.ad571893e6e8eb0b3f1d6ec437e577ff.jpg

Fill the gaps. and refile, when filler is dry.

 

241498316_Picture040.jpg.5630039c88b36e60ab1095031add5c89.jpg

sit back knowing you made it yourself.

Edited by Clive Mortimore
  • Like 9
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I only use files to get the shape. A bit of pre-planing, like measuring the end elevation to get the roof dimensions is a good idea. 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_07/919098847_Picture018b.jpg.ca70083020bf2cf8b496dba86cc1cc76.jpg

 

 

I tried making a profiled roof with laminated plasticard like that for a railcar (I was using 10thou, I think) - it looked fine for a few days, but as the solvent worked its way through it warped horribly over the next week. How do you get yours to not warp? 

 

In the end I made a roof out of wood. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Clive Mortimore said:

I only use files to get the shape. A bit of pre-planing, like measuring the end elevation to get the roof dimensions is a good idea. 

I take it you mean pre-planning, as opposed to pre-planing?

 

41 minutes ago, uax6 said:

I find its amazing how easy it is to use a normal scalpel blade to shape with. I use mine in a Swan Morton brass holder (the ones where the blade goes inside it), and if you hold the knife at 90* and vertically  to the bit you want to fettle, and then draw the blade towards you, it will peel a lovely bit off, and its much quicker than sanding to get the rough shape, which can then be final shaped by files or paper.

 

Andy G 

Agreed in principle. The point being that scraping or planing produces shavings rather than filings / dust

 

2 hours ago, lezz01 said:

A plane, small or otherwise, is a tool designed to make or keep something flat and or square. Unless it's a molding plane which will have a profile ground into the blade and can only be used to make the molding profile it was designed for. It is not really suitable for profiling roofs. 

A spoke shave is the chappy you need and you can get them quite small as well. It's used by wheelwrights and coopers. You will need to practice with it a LOT before you put it anywhere near a model. Veritas make a very nice one for around £40 and is available new on ebay.

Regards Lez.   

Why is it "not really suitable"? We don't need to go out and buy the allegedly "right" tool for every job, "right" as determined by traditional trade use, especially if it is a tricky tool to use. It makes no difference what a tool is traditionally used for, it's a question of how you choose to use it. If you happen to have one, or can get one cheaply, the relatively long flat sole of even a very small plane, run along the roof, will help the user to take even amounts off the whole length of the roof when profiling. The plane may be flat across its width, but it can be tilted bit by bit in order to produce the necessary rounding. Why take the risk of using a spoke shave without adequate practice, possibly producing a wavy surface or one with digs in it?

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I personally use a heavy duty craft knife and sandpaper to profile plastic. I do have a very old spoke shave which is about 6" long that I use for profiling wood but hey use anything that works for you.

Regards Lez. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, sharris said:

 

I tried making a profiled roof with laminated plasticard like that for a railcar (I was using 10thou, I think) - it looked fine for a few days, but as the solvent worked its way through it warped horribly over the next week. How do you get yours to not warp? 

 

In the end I made a roof out of wood. 

 

 

Hi

 

40 thou plastic card, and stuck together with Revel Contacta. All burrs must be removed because they can cause gaps which can lead to all sorts of problems. I very rarely get a plastic card loco, wagon, building etc warp unless I am expecting it to take a structural load beyond its capabilities. Last week I reading Geoff Kent's article in MRJ 222 on scratchbuilding coaches, and he states he doesn't seem to get the problems  everyone else says we plastic card modellers should.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I actually have a workshop with jack planes, smoothing planes and spokeshaves. It also has a dust extraction system for the rip saw and chop saw and have 40 years of kit in various toolboxes.

But for this the best tools I find are a selection of files, a couple of knives (Swann Morton & Stanley) for scraping, and a handful of emery boards from Claires Accessories,  I try not to pick up the ones with 'My Little Pony' or glitter as I get enough looks as it is, and trying on the earings was a step too far last time (They weren't my colour and clashed with my clothes....) 

  • Like 3
  • Funny 5
  • Friendly/supportive 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sort of thing I had in mind was the very small plane I have that fits in the palm of a hand and is useful for trimming / smoothing where no other plane can go. Given the need to work on the lower portion of the roof adjacent to the clerestory, I could not imagine how a spokeshave could be used. But these were only thoughts and speculative suggestions anyway. One way or another I imagine we need to be more careful than we once might have been about the creation and disposal of plastic waste.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That sounds like a Block plane, they're very handy tools but I think they're too big for this sort of work.

 

I managed to get a lot done last night, I remembered I had a small battery powered vacuum cleaner and used that to keep the dust down.

437.JPG.00b9a6e510c521eb691970da4648742d.JPG

There is still some filling and shaping to do to get the gentle curve of the roof.  The bending bars are used as a straight edge so the plastic doesn't bend, and the knife or file 'dig in' and take a chunk out.

  • Like 6
  • Friendly/supportive 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh, the clerestory is still removable - well that changes everything....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, gr.king said:

One way or another I imagine we need to be more careful than we once might have been about the creation and disposal of plastic waste.

 

Indeed, I feel positively guilty making my own track and considering the amount of waste plastic in the sprues compared to the amount actually in the chairs.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Another hour or so at the bench this evening and about 90% of the general shaping is done.

438.JPG.e1c80d1a1d7a179bddb8b7fe09f5cd11.JPG

I've just a bit more filling and sanding with some 800 grit to do then I'll flash another coat of filler primer over it.

439.JPG.4d3ce2cc03e8f635fd1e5fa8ad6776e6.JPG

I haven't figured out how to attach these to the coach yet. I did pick up some small magnets the last time we met at the 4D model shop and there is a screw hole which is accessible.

440.JPG.f8c64c442799ae7097a597b72be6d2a4.JPG

 

when it's primed and ready to cast, I'll start the bogie side frames. I've already drawn them out for the silhouette to give me a head start.

Edited by chris p bacon
  • Like 13
  • Craftsmanship/clever 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave,

What I do on my coach builds is to fit a bit of plasticard on the inside of the roof which sits tight against the inside of the ends of the carriage body, making the roof a force fit. Can you not employ something similar here?

 

Andy G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can try that, but it will be in resin so it may just shave a bit off when it's forced in. I intend making the other 2 (3 if I include the one wrecked) so it needs to be a reasonably easy fix.

 

One thing I'm not 100% sure of is the colour. As these came over from the USA as flat packed kits they wouldn't have been in 'Teak' but likely painted in a flat 'brown' colour. 

This earlier picture of 2992 shows the intricate lining over what looks like a flat colour

50064222_2992PullmanDiningcopy.jpg.461b428b63d61ab4a1bb7b496065b1ca.jpg

And this later picture of it at Lincoln shows very faded paintwork of a flat colour.

1044572932_ECJS1stdinerasstore@Lincolncopy.jpg.ce9362e82d6c3c9d81557805d04f5c01.jpg

 

It's difficult to determine colour from B&W pictures but you can get an idea.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The build is looking good and it’s an interesting prototype.

 

That lining also looks like it will be “ interesting” to do! 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, Jon4470 said:

That lining also looks like it will be “ interesting” to do! 

 

I was hoping no one would notice that....

  • Funny 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave,

 

The Stately trains site has pictures of Balmoral which shows bits of the original paintwork. Its a bit difficult to see what the base colour is but maybe some tech software might be able to tell you what it is (I can't decide if its a chocolate brown or a tarry black!):

https://www.statelytrains.com/balmoral.html#demo/img/balmoral/tw930.jpg https://www.statelytrains.com/balmoral.html#demo/img/balmoral/pullman(1).jpg

 

Maybe give Stephen Middleton a email and ask if he can tell you what he thinks the colour is on his Pullman?!

 

Andy G

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
30 minutes ago, uax6 said:

Its a bit difficult to see what the base colour is but maybe some tech software might be able to tell you what it is (I can't decide if its a chocolate brown or a tarry black!)

 

I see what you mean.  I'd forgotten Balmoral was at Embsay so I've sent an email to Stephen.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the link Andy, I have had a reply back already from Stephen.

 

Yes, it is a very dark maroon brown.  There is some original on and original lining etc if you wish to visit.

Kind regards

Stephen

 

Now I have to find a suitable colour as with 2 more to do I don't really want to mix it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is it like the old humbrol track colour, but glossy then? Or is that not quite red enough? I suppose you could get a new tin and add maroon into it until you get a colour you like...

 

andy g

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not much to report on progress. The day job gets in the way and it's renewals time for the society so that takes some of my evenings.

 

I did manage to make a couple of wagons for a mate who is dabbling in EM, his current exhibition layout is Little Salkeld in 2mm which I made a couple of items for, so the step up to 4mm was very much appreciated!   This evening I managed to get back onto the Pullman and fitted the truss rodding. This was .55 Nickel Silver rod and was a little easier than I anticipated.

 

441.JPG.02f11bcfeb6f8f7316b3d94c87361081.JPG

 

I'm itching to do the verandas, but think I ought to wait until the roof is done as they'll be delicate.

  • Like 11

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.