steve fay Posted December 15, 2016 Author Share Posted December 15, 2016 Two and 4 car sets, with additional single coaches to make either 3 or 5 car sets to follow Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welchester Posted December 15, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 15, 2016 Perhaps an aficionado of GWR coaching stock can tell me if the 'Birmingham' sets got spread about a bit after 1948? I have one on pre-order ('cos I'm lazy), so it would be useful to know if there are any reasons why they could not run around North Wales and Borders. Not specifically, but I have seen a photograph of a Taunton set at Cirencester Town, so it's not inconceivable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted December 15, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 15, 2016 Two and 4 car sets, with additional single coaches to make either 3 or 5 car sets to follow Thank you, I must have had the Heljan DMU forth coming release blouncing around in the old grey splodge. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 A Birmingham B set, which is I think what Lionheart and Dapol are referring to, is Brake 3rd + Composite + Composite + Brake 3rd. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 My enquiry is genuine, Larry. Everybody is referring to a 'B set', and I don't know what they mean. The GWR built non-corridor brake composites to be coupled together in pairs to form what they termed 'B' sets. The bow-ended stock as modelled by Lionheart/Dapol were built in the 1920's and were close coupled with no inner buffers. They ran on 7' bogies. The flat ended 'B' set stock built in the 1930's had short buffers on the inner end, although some were built with long buffers both ends for working as normal brake composites. These mostly ran on pressed steel bogies except for those running on the Looe Branch (7'). The bow-enders lasted until around 1962, while the flat end 'B' sets lasted until circa 1965. There was one set working the Oswestry- Llanfyllin service almost if not right up to closure of that branch.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 I think we are talking at cross-purposes here, Larry. Birmingham division did not have 2-coach B sets, as other divisions did. So I assume that when Lionheart says "The Great Western 'B' set coaches including the London 'A' sets and the Birmingham 'D' sets are at the final sampling stage", they mean all of these are 4- or 5-coach sets. Which leaves me uncertain on Steve's reference to '2 car set'. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Ah, I see now. Maybe the manufacturer assumed BE stood for B set....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Ah, I see now. 'B' sets were pairs of coaches. Not in Birmingham, Larry. See #179. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted December 15, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 15, 2016 They are producing a 4 coach set (2 x D109 brake with windows in the end, sandwiching 2 x E141 composites) which they are calling Birmingham division B sets and London division A sets. Plus a two coach set (E140 without end windows) which they are calling Bristol division B sets and Birmingham / Worcester division D sets. I think I recall reading that the 4 coach sets were broken up and filtered around the system as single coaches later on so, for example, there are many photos of what I think is a "window ended" D109 at Coombe junction, which I had always assumed was from a broken up 4 coach set rather than built as a single. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Not in Birmingham, Larry. See #179. I must have missed the statement in the GWR carriage books that 'B' sets are sometimes not pairs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 Ah, got it, thanks Hal Nail. It's a non-Birmingham B set of two E140s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshall5 Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 I'm getting confused now! I had always thought that B sets were pairs (sometimes semi-permanently coupled) of brake compos - seemingly not! LOL. So have I got it right? Brake composites of diags E129, E140, or E147 were formed into the 2 car B sets? Were there any others? E140's had bow ends, recessed guards' doors and ran on 7' bogies whereas E147's had flat ends and 9' bogies. E129's and E147's were semi-permanently coupled (the former with a centre buffer/coupler, the latter with short side buffers and a drawbar). Were the E140's also coupled similarly? Were the 4 car sets of 2x D109 & 2x D141 also semi-permanently coupled? If so when the sets were broken up in the mid 50's they must have been rebuilt with ordinary drawgear. Despite what it says on the JLRT website a pair of D98 brake thirds does not constitute a B set! Is it my imagination that, once you discount the unavailable Blacksmith range and the CPL "etches only", there is quite a dearth of Collett non-corridors and almost no Hawksworth ones in 7mm scale. BTW does anyone know where the former range of Sidelines G.W. carriage kits went? More questions than answers this time, I'm afraid. Cheers, Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted December 15, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 15, 2016 Brake composites of diags E129, E140, or E147 were formed into the 2 car B sets? Were there any others? E140's had bow ends, recessed guards' doors and ran on 7' bogies whereas E147's had flat ends and 9' bogies. E129's and E147's were semi-permanently coupled (the former with a centre buffer/coupler, the latter with short side buffers and a drawbar). Were the E140's also coupled similarly? Also E145 - basically an E140 but on 9ft bogies (photos in Russell appendix vol 1). Have a look back at page 4 of this thread - the drawing seems to suggest the E140 has short inner buffers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 The E116 was the first elliptical roof B set diagram. I don't know the shape of the centre coupling of the E140, but an E147 centre coupling can be seen here.I think/assume the Birmingham 4-coach B sets were semi-permanently coupled. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted December 15, 2016 Share Posted December 15, 2016 [duplicate post deleted] Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted December 16, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 16, 2016 My heads spinning.....I might just run a Mk3 A/C coach behind my Prairie and be done with it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
two tone green Posted December 16, 2016 Share Posted December 16, 2016 My heads spinning.....I might just run a Mk3 A/C coach behind my Prairie and be done with it It can go along side my Deltic with 8 plank private owners wagons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
south_tyne Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 It can go along side my Deltic with 8 plank private owners wagons. Why not, it's your train set! On a more sensible note I do find the arrangements around the Dapol/Lionheart tie up quite confusing. If I had a deposit/money committed I'd want complete clarification on the status. Maybe I'm naive but can that order simply be transferred to another company without the buyers say so? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted December 17, 2016 Share Posted December 17, 2016 I imagine that most customers would prefer that to the other option of cancelling the order and starting again But if you prefer that, I'm sure they'd refund your deposit - I think they'd be obliged to Best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium boxbrownie Posted December 17, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 17, 2016 On a more sensible note I do find the arrangements around the Dapol/Lionheart tie up quite confusing. Worked out great for me so far, joined the Dapol Collectors Club (didn't know there was one!) and saw an offer for members for Dapol POW wagons, only £30 so ordered one that might have lost it's way down here on my proposed line, opened the box just a few days after ordering and......whoohoo....not a Dapol box but a Lionheart branded box, so got a LH wagon for just £30.......result I thought. I like the Dapol wagons, they make great "train fodder" but the Lionhearts are a big step above that Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JelleJan Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Today the postman brought me my first four steel opens, all rivetted, 305A-4, 305B-4, 306A-5 and 306B-5. Most of the three link chains are loose in the box. Can I get them in the hook, without bending them open? I don't find any flat part on the outher links. Thanks in advance for your help. Kind regards from the Netherlands, Jelle Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steam69 Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Today the postman brought me my first four steel opens, all rivetted, 305A-4, 305B-4, 306A-5 and 306B-5. Most of the three link chains are loose in the box. Can I get them in the hook, without bending them open? I don't find any flat part on the outher links. Thanks in advance for your help. Kind regards from the Netherlands, Jelle Jan I've had the same problem, they will just clip back into the slot behind the hook (they dropped out in transit so should go back) Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JelleJan Posted December 30, 2016 Share Posted December 30, 2016 Many thanx, Richard, I just tried to clip them in with in bit more pressure and they are all in place now. Jelle Jan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hal Nail Posted January 4, 2017 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 4, 2017 joined the Dapol Collectors Club (didn't know there was one!) and saw an offer for members for Dapol POW wagons, only £30 so ordered one that might have lost it's way down here on my proposed line, opened the box just a few days after ordering and......whoohoo....not a Dapol box but a Lionheart branded box, so got a LH wagon for just £30.......result I thought. Just spotted Dapol have a couple of the ex Lionheart coke wagons on offer at £30 on the website under Specials without needing to join - says available till around this time tomorrow. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
slg Posted January 9, 2017 Share Posted January 9, 2017 Dapols advert in this months Model rail shows the B sets as January. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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