Hayfields turnout workbench

[St Enodoc]

10 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

I think it was Norman Solomon who showed me this method, its soldering them to the tie bar that stops movement, in this case the tiebar is for testing purposes only, which ever method you use (under baseboard etc) will restrain them. Something like the latest C&L product where wires come up through holes in the baseboard and soldered to the switch blades.  The problems with the switch blades is due to their length they lose their flexibility, then get even stiffer when there are 4 blades rather than 2.

 

The main issue is electrical continuity, I have taken off the electrical bonding between the switch rails and the stock/closuresuer rails as these stiffen up the blades too much, plan B is to have dropper wires going under the board or that very fine wire used for loco motors would be fine, you still need a bonding wire between the stock rails and the obtuse crossings

 

Here are a selection of methods, many make their own using plastic (square tube which fits inside each other) or aluminum or brass extrusions. Just go back to the old days of using things designed for other purposes 

 

 

This is an old Studiolith product made from curtain tracking dating back to the early P4 days

 

A very useful Exactoscale product again sadly unobtainable for years

 

 

These is the current Exactoscale product, whilst designed for the Tortoise motor can be adapted for others including manual operation

 

Link to the new C&L product

 

https://www.clfinescale.co.uk/?lightbox=dataItem-jy77k01w

 

Its multi scale/gauge as there is a host of pilot holes drilled  into the copperclad strip

 

 

Thanks John. I hadn't realised that your tiebars are only temporary. I like the look of the Exactoscale and C&L designs.

[hayfield]

14 hours ago, St Enodoc said:

Thanks John. I hadn't realised that your tiebars are only temporary. I like the look of the Exactoscale and C&L designs.

 

 

For single slips and turnouts an alternative method is to use the timber under the points of the switch blades as the tiebar

 

Replace the plastic timber with a copperclad one (gapped for electrical insulation

 

Cut two brass slide chairs so the slide plate separates from the chair half

 

Solder the slide plates to the copperclad timber then the switch rail points to the slide plate. The chair outers are soldered to the stock rails

 

Don't know how the photos are so large  but show the method. Cosmetic tie rods can be made from plastic rod

[St Enodoc]

34 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

 

For single slips and turnouts an alternative method is to use the timber under the points of the switch blades as the tiebar

 

Replace the plastic timber with a copperclad one (gapped for electrical insulation

 

Cut two brass slide chairs so the slide plate separates from the chair half

 

Solder the slide plates to the copperclad timber then the switch rail points to the slide plate. The chair outers are soldered to the stock rails

 

Don't know how the photos are so large  but show the method. Cosmetic tie rods can be made from plastic rod

Yes, that's more-or-less what I do John. On slips, where space is very restricted in 00, I use C&L ply timbers with the rails soldered to bent brass pins, Norman Solomon style. As well as avoiding the need to create gaps in very small spaces, that provides a bit more flexibility where it's needed.

[hayfield]

 

The single slip is now finished with temporary tiebars installed

 

 

Kere I have temporary folded back the central 3 timbers and filed the copperclad strips holding the obtuse crossings together back flush with the side of the rails

 

 

The timbers are back in place prior to fitting the remaining chairs

 

 

A couple of photos of the slip and obtuse crossing chairs

 

[hayfield]

 

Three of my purchases from Scalefour yesterday, following the repair on a ply and rivet a few weeks ago my next project just for the fun of doing it is to build a ply and rivet turnout, ply timber strip, etched droppers and slide chair bases

 

 

The one advantage I have is a rivet press/hole punch, and a tin of brass rivets

 

One thing I am not certain is whether to make it a full rivet turnout, or use selective rivets at intival with plastic chairs in between the rivets

 

 

[hayfield]

I have put the ply and rivet turnout on the back burner, I just cannot get the rivets as neat as I would like, plus even though I am using a rivet press I cannot maintain a uniform height

 

For 2+ years I have had in mind an idea to build my version of how Bodmin General station would have evolved into the preservation to utilize my stock, the buildings will be either kits or kitbashed items and track plan will be slightly different. Initially it was to be built to 00SF standards, however if I am going to build the track myself I thought it might as well be to either EM or P4 gauge. EM won out as my carpentry skill may lack the level required to run P4 stock. I have a length of appx 14' to play with so there will be a few compromises

 

I have plenty of track parts in stock with 30 odd meters of PSM NS  rail, C&L 2 bolt chairs and 2 meters of Exactoscale EM fasttrack bases. And at Scaleforum I bought off the s/h stall loads of Exactoscale plastic timbers (equivalent to 3 complete sprues)

 

 

I have made a start on the platform trailing crossover, the 6' way has been increased to 10', which will allow water stand pipes to be installed between the tracks and give a more realistic separation between the tracks. Initially this crossover will be temporally fitted to a test plank, to test loco chassis I am both building or converting to EM. Also it will allow me to test out heights and distances of platforms with underlay

 

 

Close up of the common crossing partially built

 

 

[Pannier Tank]

On 30/09/2019 at 13:21, hayfield said:

 

Three of my purchases from Scalefour yesterday, following the repair on a ply and rivet a few weeks ago my next project just for the fun of doing it is to build a ply and rivet turnout, ply timber strip, etched droppers and slide chair bases

 

 

The one advantage I have is a rivet press/hole punch, and a tin of brass rivets

 

Who manufactures the Rivet Press / Hole Punch and is it still available?

[polybear]

1 hour ago, Pannier Tank said:

 

Who manufactures the Rivet Press / Hole Punch and is it still available?

 

No longer manufactured I'm afraid - it's either Ebay or sometimes available S/H from the S4 society stores

[N15class]

4 hours ago, hayfield said:

I have put the ply and rivet turnout on the back burner, I just cannot get the rivets as neat as I would like, plus even though I am using a rivet press I cannot maintain a uniform height

 

For 2+ years I have had in mind an idea to build my version of how Bodmin General station would have evolved into the preservation to utilize my stock, the buildings will be either kits or kitbashed items and track plan will be slightly different. Initially it was to be built to 00SF standards, however if I am going to build the track myself I thought it might as well be to either EM or P4 gauge. EM won out as my carpentry skill may lack the level required to run P4 stock. I have a length of appx 14' to play with so there will be a few compromises

 

I have plenty of track parts in stock with 30 odd meters of PSM NS  rail, C&L 2 bolt chairs and 2 meters of Exactoscale EM fasttrack bases. And at Scaleforum I bought off the s/h stall loads of Exactoscale plastic timbers (equivalent to 3 complete sprues)

 

 

I have made a start on the platform trailing crossover, the 6' way has been increased to 10', which will allow water stand pipes to be installed between the tracks and give a more realistic separation between the tracks. Initially this crossover will be temporally fitted to a test plank, to test loco chassis I am both building or converting to EM. Also it will allow me to test out heights and distances of platforms with underlay

 

 

Close up of the common crossing partially built

 

 

The town is a good choice but you picked the wrong companies station.

[hayfield]

11 hours ago, N15class said:

The town is a good choice but you picked the wrong companies station.

 

 

Peter

 

In one way you are correct, but as I intend to run it as a preserved railway as and when needed I can have the best of all worlds as I can run my LSWR & Southern locos as well as GWR and have any livery I like. Just wait for the liberty I will take with the station building

 

Edited October 12, 2019 by hayfield

[hayfield]

14 hours ago, Pannier Tank said:

 

Who manufactures the Rivet Press / Hole Punch and is it still available?

 

I think some may drill holes  for timbers now and its far easier to buy pre-drilled/punched sleepers.

 

Somewhere I have a less robust rivet punch which needs repairing. The punch is made from a rod with the end turned down to the correct diameter, the thin end has snapped off and a new end needs turning down on a lathe

[Pannier Tank]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

I think some may drill holes  for timbers now and its far easier to buy pre-drilled/punched sleepers.

 

 

I believe EM Gauge Timbers are pre-punched for P4 and use a larger diameter Rivet which is off-set at EM Gauge making fixing of chairs requiring additional work. As the use of Rivets will be supplemented with glued chairs I will probably drill the holes and use smaller dia Rivets making the fixing of chairs slightly easier.

[hayfield]

Can I firstly say I think trackwork made this way is a work of art when done well, and should be left in the raw to be admired for the craftsmanship that has gone into it. I will also apologize if any of the following comments offend those who advocate the use of more traditional methods. No offence is intended

 

I do question though if it still has a place in modern track building!!  My rational is that at my last club we had 2 P4 layouts which were built 20 years apart both suffering similar problems. The oldest one being built with steel rivets and of course suffered from rusting, both suffered from soldered joints failing, half chairs coming adrift and issues with longer rail lengths with expansion during hot weather

 

Going to the other extreme, if a modeller is going to use lengths of flexi/fast track with plastic bases, why then use ply timbers of the turnouts and crossings ? When a timber/sleeper is covered in paint you cannot tell if its ply or plastic anyway

 

I totally accept that nothing looks like wood better than wood, providing it is not covered in a thick layer of paint !! Ply stained does look the part, but with modern adhesives do we need to drill/punch holes in it,then burn it whilst trying to solder rail to rivets. Its common practice now to build common and obtuse crossings as subassemblies, plastic chairs can be attached to timbers with either the correct solvent or modern adhesives, plastic chairs allow the rail to expand and contract through them

 

If using plastic timbers what I have said about subassemblies and expansion is the same as I have stated above, but the bond between the chair and timber/sleeper is far stronger and more flexible than any of other methods, plus if using the Exactoscale special chairs (switch, slip, obtuse ) these will work functionally without the need for soldered sub assemblies if used in conjunction with plastic timbers. I guess the correct thing to do is to build a diamond or slip this way. On the crossover I am building the vee is soldered together, but the wing rails are held in place with plastic chairs, a bonding wire will be needed to connect the wing rails to the vee electrically

[kandc_au]

John,

You may probably mentioned this in the last few months when I haven't had much access.
Where do you get the rivets from please?

 

Khris

[hayfield]

I got mine from eBay after buying several lots over the years, Certainly the EM gauge society sell them in 2mm & 2.5mm heads @ £16.50 a pack, I think that is per oz though no idea how many you get. They are out of stock at the moment.  I expect the Scalefour Society also sell them.

 

Are you considering using this method?

[kandc_au]

Just curious at the moment.
Thanks for that John!

Khris

[Dominion]

With Exactoscale special switch chairs do you find you need to add a sliver of material under the 3P and 4P centre parts to increase their height to get them to sit correctly ?

[Stephen Freeman]

Hi,

I think this is covered in the instructions. From memory it's to accommodate the design of the kits.

[Dominion]

Thanks Stephen. Much appreciated. I don't actually have the Exactoscale rail or kit, just the chairs, building to Templot plans. I will try some plastic 0.5mm strip and see if that works with them.

[hayfield]

Dominion

 

Sorry for any delay in answering, domestic chores took priority. I have just used an old sprue with spare chairs to double check out my answer

 

1PL chairs are supplied

2PL only the outer two chairs are supplied as the stock and switch rails are joined together

3PL, 4PL & 5PL are functional, if you look at the base on chairs 20 through to 35 you will see the base is there on all chairs.

 

I have fitted an outside chair (6) and a middle chair (23 I think) to an off cut of a timber, holds the rail fine

 

As you can see with the rail taped to a bottle top the chairs support the timber which is hanging in fresh air. Make sure you are fitting them the correct way round to stop wheels bouncing off the keys

 

The 2PL chair should be similar to the 1PL in that the stock rail is held in the chair but the slide chair is on the slide plate, as I said earlier in the kits this is where the stock rail is joined to the switch rail. The work round is to splice a standard chair and slide chair together. There are a couple of central parts of the block chairs in the common crossing packs which have to be packed up (I find a liberal dose of solvent sticks the parts to the rail Webs)

 

 

[Stephen Freeman]

Just checked, its on the website, under chair positions - Exactoscale Special chairs. 0.5mm is the requirement.

[hayfield]

Stephen

 

You are correct I failed to factor in the rail has to be held up 0.5 mm above the rail, so yes it needs a packing, 

 

These special chairs were designed primarily for their turnout and crossing kits and whilst most can be used functionally the kits do have some preassembled subassemblies, common crossing besng one, switch rails attached to the stock rails being the other in a turnout. The switch assembly must cover !,2&3PL positions. The common crossing certainly are joined at the X, A & B  positions . Also there is a difference between between the base on some centre parts of the C & D block chairs, some are 0.5 mm bases others 1 mm, again those with thinner bases require packing

 

Thanks for the clarification 

Edited November 6, 2019 by hayfield

[Dominion]

Dear John and Stephen, many thanks to both of you for your help. Stephen, sorry I didn't find that myself.

I also discovered something else. I was getting a bit of bumping approaching the common crossing. It turns out that the C8 chairs are for outside of the rail, so assuming designed for the wing rail to run as far as the C timber, where as on my Templot plan the wing rails finish between the B and C timbers. So I have shaved the tops and on future builds will have to find some chairs suitable for the inside of the rail for the C position. I will check the D ones.

Thanks again for you help. Tom

[hayfield]

Tom

 

You have plenty of alternatives, 15 through to 19 on the switch rail sprues are for fitting inside the rails, likewise 5 through to 14 are for the outside of the rails

[hayfield]

After the realisation that some of the parts do need a bit of packing I have a P4 A5 turnout on the bench

 

A strip of 2mm x 0.5 mm strip was found to which the center parts of the 3 & 4 PL block chairs were stuck to, then separated

 

 

The microstrip was then trimmed to fit and stuck in place, the stock rail was added

 

                                                                                                     

 

The outer parts of the block chairs were then added. I mus admit they are now far more visible. Still have to fit the 2PL slide bases as well as the slide chairs

 

I also did the same at the common crossing with the center part of the C position chair