Hayfields turnout workbench

[hayfield]

Quite a few months since I have added to my workbench thread, most of the turnouts I have built since have been run of the mill. I am currently building a 3 way then have to make a replacement double slip in code 100 flatbottom for an old Graham Farish point.

 

Stil here is the 3 way built to P4 gauge with GWR 2 bolt chairs. The left hand exit is very slightly curved to the left where as the other 2 exits are right handers

 

 

All 3 common crossings were built first then cut to length before the timbers were layed

 

 

Once the 3 common crossings and firmly stuck down then the stock rails can be layed, but only as far as the end of the common crossings.

 

Since taking these photos, the other stock rail has been fitted and 3 of the 4 switch rails have been filed up.

 

I have used Timbertracks sleeper strip, C&L 2 bolt chairs and HighNi nickle silver rail. Colin Waite etched fishplates, Exactoscale plastic fishplates. And used C&L 3mm x 0.6mm copperclad strip to hold the common crossings in place. Quite a varied mixture of parts

 

 

[hayfield]

Quite a few months since I have added to my workbench thread, most of the turnouts I have built since have been run of the mill. I am currently building a 3 way then have to make a replacement double slip in code 100 flatbottom for an old Graham Farish point.

 

Stil here is the 3 way built to P4 gauge with GWR 2 bolt chairs. The left hand exit is very slightly curved to the left where as the other 2 exits are right handers

 

 

All 3 common crossings were built first then cut to length before the timbers were layed

 

 

Once the 3 common crossings and firmly stuck down then the stock rails can be layed, but only as far as the end of the common crossings.

 

Since taking these photos, the other stock rail has been fitted and 3 of the 4 switch rails have been filed up.

 

I have used Timbertracks sleeper strip, C&L 2 bolt chairs and HighNi nickle silver rail. Colin Waite etched fishplates, Exactoscale plastic fishplates. And used C&L 3mm x 0.6mm copperclad strip to hold the common crossings in place. Quite a mixture of different makers

Edited March 10, 2013 by hayfield

[Colin parks]

Hi Hayfield,

 

Very nice point work!

 

I have just read that you are going to construct a double slip with flat-bottom rail.  Hopefully there will be some photos of its construction, as I am interested in seeing how the methods differ from working with bullhead rail and chairs.  I have quite a stock of Peco Individulay 'Pandrol' base plates and slide plates.  Would you say they are to be recommended?

 

All the best,

 

Colin

[hayfield]

Colin

 

Sorry I missed your reply, I have finished 2 lates and one early start in the last 3 days. Well thats my excuse.

 

The Slip is going to be a bit of a pig, Code 100 is like an RSJ against code 75 bullhead, secondly I have to make a plan and Templot cannot help me owing to the Geometry of the old single slip and the need for it to drop into an existing space. And to cap it off I have to find a way of hindgeing the switch blades.

 

I can't forsee a problem in using code 82 flatbottom, Peco do a flat track gauge for the rail. I have been told that the Peco Pandrol are slightly oversize (I have some Pandrols but not looked at them too closely), but they should work fine. What are you going to use for sleepers? . And I would be interested in seeing some photos of a turnout using these chairs.

 

I shal put a couple of photos up on the slip.

[martin_wynne]

I have to make a plan and Templot cannot help me owing to the Geometry of the old single slip and the need for it to drop into an existing space.

 

Hi John,

 

if you take a rail rubbing from the existing double slip, you can scan it and display it in Templot as a background guide for the new one. You may even be able to scan the actual slip, if it has been lifted from the layout.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

Hi John,

 

if you take a rail rubbing from the existing double slip, you can scan it and display it in Templot as a background guide for the new one. You may even be able to scan the actual slip, if it has been lifted from the layout.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

Martin

 

Thanks for that, I am afraid I dont have the slip, I have been given a photo and some basic dimentions

 

Distance between V tips 183mm

length of V 42mm

Distance apart (center to center of rail ) at end of the V is 9.5mm (between the 2 rails 8mm)

Length through the diagonal 266mm

 

I have looked at a 1 in 5 which seems to have the correct size V, but a 1 in 5.5 has about the correct distance between the V's.

 

Any suggestions would be most welcome

[kandc_au]

What about the reverse of what Martyn said!

Take a rubbing of the area it has to fit into and draw it from there.

As much I have downloaded Templot I hav not had the time....nor knowledge or patience to fiddle about with it to learn it.

 

Just a thought..Hope it helps.

 

Khris

[hayfield]

Khris

 

Thanks for the input, I know there the rails have to stop. But the problem is that the angles of the V's  dictate the distance between them.

 

I think I may just draw the rails on a piece of paper and see how it lines up first. And take it from there, providing I can find how to transfer a scan into Templot etc

[martin_wynne]

Hi John,

 

I found this image on eBay showing a Graham Farish Formoway diamond-crossing: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-OO-FORMOWAY-LONG-POINT-CROSSOVER-LOT-5-/271151408894?clk_rvr_id=459004609208&nma=true&si=1N9HLYc%252BHVpYSyz5a3HeDuTk16I%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

There is some photo distortion, but I scaled it up in Templot to match the included tape measure for a best fit:

 

 

Putting the ruler on the diagonal shows your dimension of 266mm, so I think it's close.

 

Dredging the memory banks, I think the crossing angle for Formoway was 11.25 degrees (i.e. 1/8th of a right-angle), can anyone confirm?

 

If so, 11.25 degrees is 1:5.03 RAM, or 1:5 for all practical purposes. A 1:5 diamond-crossing seems to fit quite well, so I think you could go ahead and build one on a Templot template with reasonable confidence that it can be fettled to fit the site.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

 

[hayfield]

Hi John,

 

I found this image on eBay showing a Graham Farish Formoway diamond-crossing: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VINTAGE-OO-FORMOWAY-LONG-POINT-CROSSOVER-LOT-5-/271151408894?clk_rvr_id=459004609208&nma=true&si=1N9HLYc%252BHVpYSyz5a3HeDuTk16I%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

There is some photo distortion, but I scaled it up in Templot to match the included tape measure for a best fit:

 

hayfield_formoway_diamond.png

 

Putting the ruler on the diagonal shows your dimension of 266mm, so I think it's close.

 

Dredging the memory banks, I think the crossing angle for Formoway was 11.25 degrees (i.e. 1/8th of a right-angle), can anyone confirm?

 

If so, 11.25 degrees is 1:5.03 RAM, or 1:5 for all practical purposes. A 1:5 diamond-crossing seems to fit quite well, so I think you could go ahead and build one on a Templot template with reasonable confidence that it can be fettled to fit the site.

 

regards,

 

Martin.

 

Martin

 

Again I am indebted for your help, I have made a diamond out of an A5. It comes in at 260mm but I guess an extra 3mm at each end will be easy to do and make the end of the V nearer 9mm. The information box on  my template reads 00-BF  Half Diamond  -  5 LH  rather than your K5 + V5 LH

 

Second question I will convert the Template by hand to a Double slip, please what length should the central sleeper be please

Thanks

 

John

[hayfield]

A couple of photos of work to date on the 3 way

 

 

Working my way from right to left ensuring each of the 3 lines remain in gauge as some of the chairs have to be cut to shape

 

 

Just a few slide, crossing, and half chairs to fit along with the remaining check rail and tiebars remaining, should realy take the photos in better light to shaw up the chairs.

Edited March 16, 2013 by hayfield

[Donw]

Interesting problem with the double slip I suspect Martin is pretty close with his scans. If it was me I would have tried to make a drawing of the key area but it is not easy if the entry rails have beenmove a bit to line up. It makes measuring the crossing angles very difficult. Sometimes placing a ready made crossing of the imagined angle can confim whether it is the correct angle. The other thing I find useful for measuring angles is a carpenters bevel.

Don

[hayfield]

Don thanks for the advice, at least its in 00 gauge where there is a bit more leeway

[hayfield]

A couple of weeks since I last updated my workbench and just not had the time.

 

3 way in P4 finished and collected.

 

 

I also completed a P4 turnout using 100% Exactoscale parts, but either deleted or never took a photo.

 

Latest project is trying to build a replacement double slip in code 100 flatbottom rail (forgot how much metal needs to be filed off with this size rail

 

 

Thanks to a bit of help from Martin Wynn I made a template, but forgot to ask the width in the center between the rails. Now when it came to start to fit all the parts it looked a bit thin. I requested the measurement and I need another 5mm width, so I will strip it down again and build it a bit wider.

 

Here is one I have had a problem with in 00 gauge, its the center part of a 5 turnout scissors complex

 

 

Before even thinking about building it I wanted to see if I could get the center crossing which is curved to work. I tried to build it in 00 gauge but struggled, partly due to the plan not having any rail end detail in the middle of the crossing, I just could not adjust the rail ends enough to get it to work.

 

After talking through the problem a few weeks ago with Len Newman, he told me it would work in P4, should work in EM but doubted if it would work in 00 gauge as the gaps in the rails within the crossing are too large. Thinking cap back on, if it should work in EM then it should work in 00-SF. I had a chat with the person who wants it and I said I had 2 problems (the plan needs to be in 00-SF and rail end details would help) 

 

Well a revised plan followed in 00-SF and with rail end details, mk2 now works with 2 RTR tank locos and a scale chassis, not 100% silky smooth but as this is a test piece its working. I can now post it for trials with the persons own locos. As you can see the plan needs the sleepers tidying up, I am happy to do that initally in Templot, with the final adjustments by eye. 

 

Now back to that double slip, but first up into the loft to see if I can find some code 100 plastic fishplates 

[rovex]

I shall be giving it trial and reporting back

 

regards

 

Dean

[hayfield]

It has nearly been 2 weeks since my last post

 

I still have the code 100 double slip on the bench

 

 

Its starting to get interesting again, as its so different to building scale turnouts and crossings.

 

Well I have had 3 locos going through the diamond, and one after fitting the first slip. I have found that I made a mistake in the length of the switch rails, so the next step is to replace both curved stock rails. Has to be done in daylight because I need my bench vice which is in the garage and need daylight to see clearly. I also need to put some thought into the obtuse (K) crossing check rails.

 

An 00-SF B8 GWR turnout is also on the go

 

 

Getting as close to GWR practice as I can with the chairs available, still some to be fitted.

 

Wednesday after a pleasent lunch sightseeing on the Thames (birthday present from daughter and son in law) my wife put up with me going on the DLR (yes its taken me this long to have a ride). Loved the turnouts where both the V and switch blades move.

 

Also downloaded Templot 2 today, looks like a whole new learning experance.

 

 

[hayfield]

Still trying to get that code 100 slip silky smooth, Its had 3 pairs of stock rails and the switch rails have been altered 3 times. I should have got a template made by using the brass rubbing method. Still the Peco insulated rail joiners work well as hinges and I found a pair of SMP slip tiebars. Will try and iron out the 2 little glitches this afternoon.

 

I needed to get away from that slip for a bit, just to clear my mind and see the remaining problems afresh so I started another complex yesterday.

 

 

A 3 way with an additional turnout, built to 00-SF gauge using Timber Tracks sleeper strip and Exactoscale normal 3 bolt and special chairs

 

 

The common crossings were made up, two had to be built as one unit. I think from memory the polarity of both crossings is always the same, the units are electrically isolated from other rails as I use the Exactoscale plastic fishplates. Will just have to wait and see if my memory is correct

 

 

One untidy bench, using the special switch and check rail chairs needs a bit of forethought to be used when threading the chairs on. The long stock rail is to be built as 1 long rail, with 3 notches cut into it to represent rail joints, under these etchet brass fishplates will be soldered so all the different chairs will have to be slid on before the fish plates are soldered on.

 

Still out in the garden now as there are plenty of jobs that need doing.

Edited May 6, 2013 by hayfield

[hayfield]

Thought I would give this thread a bit of an airing, as it might give someone an inspiration to have a go.

 

Here is a complex which Dean has sent me, don't tell him but he's much better than me at using Templot, just the sleepers to tidy up which is easier on the board sometimes

 

 

Usual practice to stick the plan to the board, then build on top of tracing paper. Could not get any masking tape from Hobbytime so popped into Halfords and got some lo-tac stuff. A bit too lo-tac as finding it difficult to keep the tension up.

 

I am going to build it in 4 sections for posting to fit within the medium parcel limits which hopefully will be safer than a larger one going parcel post

[hayfield]

A quick update before I get the hoover out

 

 

All the sleepers cut and attached to the tracing paper with thin strips of double sided tape, a little rearranging of some sleeper/timber positions and changing some sleepers to timbers. No doubt not quite prototypical, but I think the overall look is right with spacing/angles

 

 

These are all the tools used to date except the cutting mat, the half round file is fine and I use it to flatten the cutting burs, though the heat fron the soldering iron coupled with a little downward pressure would have flattened them. Not many more tools will be used to finish it off so track building uses just a few simple tools that most of us have anyway

 

I think the first mistake a novice builder makes is trying to finish the work too quickly. I cut the sleeper slightly oversize, then file to length. As these are glass-fibre sleepers I use the same old medium cut file on them as glass-fibre blunts files

[Donw]

My understanding of three way turnouts is thet two of the crossings can be the same polarity and no break is needed between them but the third will be at a different polarity for two of the routes and so a break is needed between it and the middle crossing. Identifying the three crossings as L,M,R and assuming the right hand stock rail is +ve the sense is as follows

                   L        M       R

Left route    +        +       ?

Middle         -        ?       +

Right           ?        -       -  

 

? means it is not part of the route and could be either

Don

[hayfield]

Don

 

See the C&L wiring diagram   http://www.finescale.org.uk/pdfs/3way.pdf

 

Yes the first 2 are the same polarity, but the polarity changes depending on route chosen

[Donw]

The table shows the centre crossing can be linked to either of the other two but must be isolated from one. It saves having a third switch.

Don

[hayfield]

For those who are not sure about wiring, C&L do several diagrams with written explanations which simply explain how to wire up turnouts and crossings

 

Go to C&L home page, put the mouse indicator over Knowledge Centre, click on Data Sheets

http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=9

 

You will find single turnout, 3 way, single and double slip diagrams

 

Here is the turnout link    http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=9

[hayfield]

No pictures yet but just started to file up the first of the rails and found that there was no sleeper under the central bend in the middle diamond. Not a problem in modelling terms but from what I understand not prototypical. So I cut an extra sleeper and just rearranged the next eight to ten sleepers to fit as well as the plain sleepers below them.

 

Plan is not mine but that's no excuse, just goes to show that it is so easy to make mistakes and I bet there may well be a few more that may or may not come to light, still first principal is good running followed by a flowing apperance

[martin_wynne]

just started to file up the first of the rails and found that there was no sleeper under the central bend in the middle diamond.

 

Hi John,

 

That's correct to prototype for diamond-crossings 1:5 and shorter. This ensures that the diamond point tips can be fully supported on a timber each side of the centre.

 

However, if you are not building with exact-scale flangeways in P4, S7, etc., the wider model flangeways mean that the diamond point tips will be further from the centre, and there is then room for a middle timber. Click the real > timbering > half-diamond timbering > timbering as model menu option to have Templot adopt this non-prototypical arrangement and include a middle timber.

 

For more information about this, in Templot click the real > timbering > half-diamond timbering > ? half-diamond timbering - help menu item.

 

This is the prototypical arrangement for a short crossing in P4 -- narrow flangeways, no middle timber:

 

 

 

This is the non-prototypical model option in 00-BF -- wider flangeways, the diamond points are further from the centre, and there is room for a middle timber:

 

 

 

regards,

 

Martin.

Edited July 27, 2014 by martin_wynne