Stephen Freeman Posted November 8, 2019 Share Posted November 8, 2019 On 06/11/2019 at 14:41, Dominion said: Dear John and Stephen, many thanks to both of you for your help. Stephen, sorry I didn't find that myself. I also discovered something else. I was getting a bit of bumping approaching the common crossing. It turns out that the C8 chairs are for outside of the rail, so assuming designed for the wing rail to run as far as the C timber, where as on my Templot plan the wing rails finish between the B and C timbers. So I have shaved the tops and on future builds will have to find some chairs suitable for the inside of the rail for the C position. I will check the D ones. Thanks again for you help. Tom Thats because as I understood it, Exactoscale's configuration of the common crossing differs due to production requirements of their kits. As I don't use the kits myself I follow the Templot positioning on this as I think it is more prototypical.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilks Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 On 23/10/2014 at 22:33, hayfield said: Once all the timbers are laid its the common crossing I fit next, with the crossover I fit both at the same time Initially I fit the straight roads using solvent ensuring the tip is in line with the plan, by looking from all sides. Then once set I use gauges to set the turnout roads, then the special chairs. Here is a close up of the chairs, there are enough chairs for a 1 in 5, 6, 7, 8 &10 Now I thread the stock rails, you can see the two turnout roads being gauged with each other as well as the check rail chairs Close up view of the check rail chairs I thread one of the additional switch rail chairs prior to fitting the stock rail A close up of the additional switch chairs, there are enough chairs to make a left and right hand turnout and both can be either A, B or C switches I have missed taking a photo of a bridge chair which are also used in a standard turnout, will take a photo later to show them I hope this shows those of you who are either unaware or not too familiar of these items. I may use Martin Wynn's Templot plan of a Peco size turnout given a scale make over, just to show what can be achieved These are much better than chopping up standard chairs, pity they are not available in 7 mm scale John I am just about to embark on building EM turnouts using ply sleepers and glued plastic chairs. I have purchased (I think) the necessary chair mouldings - C&L mouldings supplied by the EM gauge society. The mouldings have small numbers by each chair moulding. What do these numbers relate to? Thank you Paul 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted November 11, 2019 Author Share Posted November 11, 2019 Paul Sounds like you have some of the special chairs either for turnouts/crossings or slips. What description is on the packets? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilks Posted November 11, 2019 Share Posted November 11, 2019 8 minutes ago, hayfield said: Paul Sounds like you have some of the special chairs either for turnouts/crossings or slips. What description is on the packets? John I have packs of : E4CH 501A - A,B and C switches E4CH 502A - common crossing chairs I also have slide, bridge and check chairs but these are not numbered and are not as bemusing!! Thankyou Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted November 11, 2019 Author Share Posted November 11, 2019 Paul Easy, here is a link to the chair details. Just study the plans and the numbers become relevent https://exactoscale.com/track-components/chair-positions/ On the common crossing the center part of the 2PL chairs are missing as in the kits there is a link between the switch and stock rails. Also on some of the block chairs on both the switch and common crossing chairs need a 0.5 mm packing under them Look on the check chair sprues CCL is the left hand end, CCR is the right hand end. Always looking from outside the stock rail 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dominion Posted November 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) Dear John, you invited me to post work in progress on your thread occasionally. I would not have attempted anything like this if I hadn't worked my way through your previous builds so many thanks to you and to others that have posted helpful advice. Please forgive the loose bits of copper. They are just temporary as I am experimenting with a different tie bar arrangement and I want to test it before the slide chairs go in. Edited November 12, 2019 by Dominion 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) Dominion Do feel free in posting what you like, tiebars are the bane of most folk, The 3 way turnout looks very good A big heads up. Exactoscale are going to stop supplying their products directly from the end of the month, in 4 mm scale they will be available from either the EMGS of Scalefour Societies. & mm from the Scale Seven Society Edited November 12, 2019 by hayfield Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 Just thought I would show the new 3 bolt chair sprues which will be available very soon from C&L which will be followed quickly by a new 2 bolt sprues. Cannot remember if they are test shots or 3D prints The new sprue will have 10 x standard chairs, 2x S1J chairs, 2 Bridge chairs plus one standard H shaped fishplate and one reinforced version Bridge chairs still work in progress on the tool but as you can see on a standard sprue 4 extra chairs At the other end a choice of functional fishplates Couple of close ups The CAD Drawing showing the fishplates will also be available separately 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dominion Posted November 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 12, 2019 Really great to see Phil getting new things going at C&L. What is an S1J chair and or where would you use it ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dominion Posted November 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 12, 2019 (edited) Sorry. I should have looked it up before posting. J for joint. Edited November 12, 2019 by Dominion Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold martin_wynne Posted November 12, 2019 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 12, 2019 11 minutes ago, Dominion said: What is an S1J chair and or where would you use it ? Great pic of one on the right here: https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78411-prototype-for-everything-corner/&do=findComment&comment=3652791 Discussion about S1J joint chairs here: http://85a.co.uk/forum/view_topic.php?id=3508&forum_id=22 cheers, Martin. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted November 12, 2019 Author Share Posted November 12, 2019 39 minutes ago, Dominion said: Really great to see Phil getting new things going at C&L. What is an S1J chair and or where would you use it ? In many instances at the end of panels (where there are 12" sleepers and at the ends of turnouts and crossings and some rail joints in between the S1J (large) chair is used. Just a larger chair for added strength at rail joins On reflection I am surprised these were not included in the Exactoscale range. They have been available in 7 mm scale for some times from Off The Rails on the Shapeways 3D printing site Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 9, 2019 Author Share Posted December 9, 2019 The latest piece of work to hit my workbench, two facing crossovers the lower having a single slip. Its an approach into a station. The part that needed thinking about was the order of the build. Usually I like to start with the middle and work outwards, this case one of the common crossings (top center) could not be positioned until the non slip stock and top left turnout curved stock rails were in position. As usual the center of the slip will be built in situ, temporarily wooden timbers are in position and as you can see I have jotted down chair numbers/types. The other difficulty is that the slip is on a slight curve plus its a 1-6 slip and the chairs are designed for a 1-7 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 11, 2019 Author Share Posted December 11, 2019 The past couple of days I have been finishing of the two upper turnouts and making a start on the single slip. The trouble now is as I like to test my work as I go, to enable me to test the slip thoroughly I need the remaining turnout to be a bit further on Next up will be to splice the common crossing in place, followed by the lower stock rail 6 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dominion Posted December 11, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 11, 2019 Looking very good John. I have a question about the cosmetic fishplates in the middle of the stock rails. I have tried to use the C&L or Exactoscale cosmetic ones, I don't remember which but I mean the dark brown plastic ones. I have found the wheel flanges on RTR wheels hit them. Does anyone else have the same problem ? John I think you use etched ones, which I suspect are much thinner. May I ask where you source them from ? Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Siberian Snooper Posted December 11, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 11, 2019 Try Brasssmasters. http://www.brassmasters.co.uk/track_details.htm 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 12, 2019 Author Share Posted December 12, 2019 17 hours ago, Dominion said: Looking very good John. I have a question about the cosmetic fishplates in the middle of the stock rails. I have tried to use the C&L or Exactoscale cosmetic ones, I don't remember which but I mean the dark brown plastic ones. I have found the wheel flanges on RTR wheels hit them. Does anyone else have the same problem ? John I think you use etched ones, which I suspect are much thinner. May I ask where you source them from ? Tom I think you are talking about the older 2 part C&L items. I tend to put a notch in the top of the rail and solder etched fishplates into the web. You could cut Exactoscale ones in half, remove the centre connecting strips completely, or even sand the C&L ones thinner (do you remove the slight peg on the rear. The new C&L ones do look very much better and will be available soon, 2 styles normal (upper) reinforced (lower) available separately or on the new 3 bolt sprues along with bridge and J chairs 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dominion Posted December 12, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 12, 2019 Thanks John, yes I cut the ridge of the back before adding. Have tried splitting the exactoscale functional ones and they are indeed a little thinner. Those ones seem fine in some places I have glued them and not others. Still need to figure out why. I am looking forward to trying the new C&L ones in your photo when available. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stephen Freeman Posted December 12, 2019 Share Posted December 12, 2019 In 4mm scale, the old Colin Waite etched ones were the best in my opinion. However if you are a member of EMGS they do an etch. Not in opinion as good but until I finish the design for my 7mm scale ones (it's a little tedious and demanding of time), I 'll probably do a 4mm scale version too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 12, 2019 Author Share Posted December 12, 2019 Stephen I do agree with you, Colin Waite were by far the best Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Dominion Posted December 13, 2019 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 13, 2019 May I ask a question about correct gauge usage ? My gauges are turned brass, not the type I see in some photos with springs. So there is a small amount of play when the rail head is in the grooves. Am I right in thinking that ideally your would push the rail to inside when setting track gauge ? And what about the check gauge ? If the purpose is to keep the wheels just off the nose of the vee should the checks rails be pushed away from the common crossing with what ever play there is in the gauge slots ? The problem with that is at least one of the gauges is positioned with the outer flat on the crossing nose so if pushing the check rail to the outer edge of the gauge tolerance it is really setting it from the wing rail, which may or may not be in exactly the right spot. So i am guessing the gauges are designed to be used with the check rails pushed up against the inside of the slots. Any guidance welcome. Thanks Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 Tom I will try and give it a go, but those more knowledgeable like Martin are better qualified The gauges with a spring can if the spring is set too strongly and the flanges are too deep quite possibly will set chaired rails too close to each other once the chairs relax back into the correct position. On the other hand if building copperclad turnouts the strength of the gauge could be a benefit, ease the tension back. When building P4 track I use the later version of Exactoscale track gauges which have no backs. If using a roller gauge for chaired track, it must allow the head of the rail to rotate in the slot so that the base of the chairs sit flat on the timbers/sleepers. (the latest design of C&L roller gauges have been designed to do this) Just check how your gauges work with an electronic calliper As for the check rail gauges, providing your common crossing is built to the correct specification, the gauge will hold your check rail in the correct position. If your wing rails are set incorrectly then either the gauge will not fit or the check rail will be set wrongly. Though I assume the relationship of the back to back between the wing and check rails will remain correct 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted December 13, 2019 Author Share Posted December 13, 2019 The rails are all now in position, still quite a few chairs need fitting, the obtuse/slip crossing is in place, before I can fit the remaining chairs in place the crossing needs fine tuning. I need to dismantle it and take the odd thou of the crossing rails. I was going to hinge the switch blades, but they seem quite supple. The numbers relate to which where each slip chair part fits, some being in 3 parts others 2, plus the switch chairs have not been fitted yet 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hayfield Posted January 1, 2020 Author Share Posted January 1, 2020 Christmas and the new year have got in the way, or rather I have just chilled out and not done much Untidy work bench but over the past 2 days I have finished fettling the slip The crossing now works very well and just needs the chairs fitting, I can then sort out the centre part of the slip, install bonding wires on the turnouts and test thoroughly During my week of inactivity I built an old Wills Finecast Jinty (tender loco version) to EM standards so I had a rolling chassis to test the trackwork. Ideal as it has no brake gear. Its very free running Had some issues with some of the Markit wheels needing fettling, but its a super runner now I have added some lead. I have both a Collet Goods and a SR Q class it can fit. The spacers were a bit of a pain as I used Perseverance ones, The Southeastern Finecast up dated chassis has EM/P4 spacers and brake gear. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
down the sdjr Posted April 20, 2020 Share Posted April 20, 2020 (edited) Hope you dont mind me posting this here, great thread, wonderful work and very informative. I am currently building my first CL Finescale kit. I have never done anything like this before as i was modelling in Peco 00 streamline up until now. The kit has a great set of instructions with it perfect for a beginner like me, much less daunting than i thought it would be. I have to move the switch blades a bit and i am not looking forward to the soldering. I have ordered some Carrs 145 solder and flux but a bit nervous to say the least. Should i buy a adjustable tempature iron? as i only have a cheap one at present. Thanks Paul. Edited April 20, 2020 by down the sdjr 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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