Hayfields turnout workbench

[hayfield]

Paul

 

No problems posting on this thread at all, sadly when Len Newman drew the plan he failed to highlight the Set at the beginning, there should be a physical bend just before the start of the planing, should make no issues with a straight turnout.

 

For years I used an Antex 25 watt iron, I now use a solder station with a digital read out, they are more expensive than standard irons and as you would expect much better, but a luxury

 

I use thin solder wire, no idea of the melting temperature, but if you quickly tin the switch blades and tiebars, then using some pliers over the center if the tiebar to act as a heat sink quickly solder the tiebars to the switch rails, dont forget the bonding wires between the switch and stock rails marked E

[down the sdjr]

The set is in the instructions under optional extras, i will give it a go on the next one.

[Siberian Snooper]

I would advise that you practice soldering on some off cuts of brass and get the hang of soldering before you do your switches. Rule one for soldering is to clean the areas that are to be soldered before you start. I use a glass fibre pencil,  some people prefer to use other tools as the fibres irritate their skin, I'm lucky and rarely have a problem with it.

 

 

[down the sdjr]

56 minutes ago, Siberian Snooper said:

I would advise that you practice soldering on some off cuts of brass and get the hang of soldering before you do your switches. Rule one for soldering is to clean the areas that are to be soldered before you start. I use a glass fibre pencil,  some people prefer to use other tools as the fibres irritate their skin, I'm lucky and rarely have a problem with it.

 

 

Funny thing is, im a plumber by trade so have done a fair bit of soldering in my time, but that has made me aware of heat spread and damage. Going to practise on some off cuts of track before i attempt anything on the point.

Thank you for all the advice, i am here to learn.

[hayfield]

Paul

 

The trick is to go in and out as quickly as possible, so as not to melt the plastic, I normally don't fit the 2 slide chairs either side of the solder joint as the switch rail will melt a ridge in the plastic slide chair base. At worst you will have to cut off the odd damaged chair and fit a new one.

 

Its a knack which is quickly learnt

[down the sdjr]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

Paul

 

The trick is to go in and out as quickly as possible, so as not to melt the plastic, I normally don't fit the 2 slide chairs either side of the solder joint as the switch rail will melt a ridge in the plastic slide chair base. At worst you will have to cut off the odd damaged chair and fit a new one.

 

Its a knack which is quickly learnt

 

I guess damage is inevitable but can repair and replace. Good advice,thank you.

[hayfield]

Actually getting down to some track building

 

 

A couple of copperclad turnouts, building board out (Its been on the board for a month or so and the masking tape is about to give up)

 

 

First I cut the strip to length, then mark out where the isolation breaks are needed. I then take each timber off in turn and neatly break the foil with a junior hacksaw, and rest for electrical isolation, whilst it takes a lot longer firstly its a lot neater hacking away with a grinding wheel, secondly a lot quicker than looking for a fault

[hayfield]

A second project started

 

 

Again in copperclad, an A6 single slip, its missing most of the timbers as its a test piece for an inset track

[hayfield]

Household and gardening chores took preference as did a bit of painting a loco body, I have a GER L77/ LNER N7 in undercoat also have a new airbrush I am itching to use, whilst looking for a tin of paint I found an unopened can of GER blue, I needed no further encouragement to get out into the shed, the body and wheels are now in blue, also I have an old Jamieson SR E2 which had been painted green some time ago but had got scratched, this also was sorted out.

 

 

The two vees were formed and fitted as was one of the stock rails, Just about to fit the other two stock rails

 

 

[hayfield]

 

Nearly finished, no check rails on these as they are for and early LCDR goods yard

 

As for the switch rails they are of unequal length, just need to fit the tiebars and test

[martin_wynne]

35 minutes ago, hayfield said:

no check rails on these as they are for and early LCDR goods yard

 

Hi John,

 

Care to explain?

 

Presumably that means they are using USA-style self-checking crossings? How have you modelled them?

 

Looking at the sharp curves they will certainly need some means of checking to avoid derailments.

 

Also, what's the explanation for the unequal switch blades?

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

Sorry way above my pay level here on information, its for someone modelling Bricklayers arms very early on, no check rails and staggered switch rails. Think two or three years back saw some early drawings confirming it, only 4 wheeled wagons and vans and small 0-4-0 locos. Concentrates the mind when fitting the wing rails

[martin_wynne]

10 minutes ago, hayfield said:

Sorry way above my pay level here on information, its for someone modelling Bricklayers arms very early on, no check rails and staggered switch rails. Think two or three years back saw some early drawings confirming it, only 4 wheeled wagons and vans and small 0-4-0 locos. Concentrates the mind when fitting the wing rails

 

Hi John,

 

I know nothing about the LCDR, but I would be extremely surprised if they were in the habit of constructing pointwork without any form of checking. If there were no check rails, it's almost certain that they would be using American-style self-checking crossings instead.

 

You will need to replicate that to have much hope of avoiding derailments. Also the user will need to use only one wheel profile, on both the wagons and locomotives. The need for that is the reason self-checking is not much used in the UK.

 

Assuming you are using code75 bullhead rail, you could probably create the checks by adding short bits of code 100 flat-bottom on each side of the knuckle. You will probably need to file off the foot on one side. Also file or bend a flare angle on the end of them. You will need one of the user's wheels to use as a gauge in setting them.

 

linked from: https://www.proto87.com/media/frog-sg-proto-300-300.jpg

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

[hayfield]

Martin

 

Thanks for the info, I have built a couple before, as I said its for a late 1800's layout and a goods yard. As I said I was send drawings from the builder and the specification. I see if I can get more info as the previous details are long lost on my old computer which is now defunct

[hayfield]

 

The single slip is progressing, just the centre slip rail now being formed and check rails to finish, thoughts now on how to make the infills especially around the switch blades. Also as a belt and braces approach  a few small bits of copperclad will be addedat the ends of wing and check rails

[hayfield]

 

I spent the evening trying to carefully cut out some thick card to see the possibilities of building a small layout with some inset track, for a first attempt the cutting out is a 5/10 as it got better as I went along, but needs to be so much better for the layout. The card being 1.9mm thick is nearly the correct thickness, but no good for shaping, plastic would be far easier to shape, but looks like plastic, I am leaning towards either ply or balsa/harder wood, as it can be worked but is a softer surface than plastic

 

 

Building in P4 allows thin flangeways, all check rails can be on a flatter angle, I can cut wood slightly oversize then work it to the correct profile, gaps on the non running side of the rail can be filled with filler. 

 

I think the experiment worked by flagging up a couple of issues. I think the next stage would be to build a turnout and try ply as a filler. Looks like a P4 mini layout is finally in the offing 

[hayfield]

Decided to pus on with the second turnout, still an A6 crossing on a slight curve

 

 

This time rather than flaring the check rails I have machined the ends, now to find some ply or balsa as infill 

[Andy Reichert]

On 27/04/2020 at 05:24, martin_wynne said:

 

Hi John,

 

I know nothing about the LCDR, but I would be extremely surprised if they were in the habit of constructing pointwork without any form of checking. If there were no check rails, it's almost certain that they would be using American-style self-checking crossings instead.

 

You will need to replicate that to have much hope of avoiding derailments. Also the user will need to use only one wheel profile, on both the wagons and locomotives. The need for that is the reason self-checking is not much used in the UK.

 

Assuming you are using code75 bullhead rail, you could probably create the checks by adding short bits of code 100 flat-bottom on each side of the knuckle. You will probably need to file off the foot on one side. Also file or bend a flare angle on the end of them. You will need one of the user's wheels to use as a gauge in setting them.

 

linked from: https://www.proto87.com/media/frog-sg-proto-300-300.jpg

 

cheers,

 

Martin.

 

Assuming the UK prototype actually used similar cast Self Guarded back then, there is no need to bodge making a realistic model as the full link to my hand building track SIG website  shows that a straightforward and inexpensive kit is available for hand building track with such frogs/crossings.

 

 

 

However, as Martin has mentioned here, you cannot mix the two common model wheel widths if you practice significant gauge narrowing.  That means that Templot's designation of HO-SF and 00-SF as being suitable for mixed model wheel standards cannot work with self guarded frogs.  Which is why HO-SF at least should be removed from Templot's list of proposed "standards", as it is obviously significantly not fully functional in at least a US HO setting.

 

Andy Reichert

[hayfield]

 

Andy

 

I am not gauge narrowing I am building it in P4,

 

Its not based on anything prototypical, just something to run a few small locos on. I assume that I will unknowingly be breaking all the railway and maritime rules, and it would be something that would never have existed.

 

The main objective is to have a simple inset track layout which works. and have a bit of fun in doing so

 

Thanks anyway for the suggestion

[martin_wynne]

9 minutes ago, Andy Reichert said:

Which is why HO-SF at least should be removed from Templot's list of proposed "standards"

 

Templot doesn't have a list of proposed "standards".

 

It has a list of gauges which folks actually use, and want to print a template for.

 

H0-SF by default prints as a 3.5mm/ft model of UK bullhead 4ft-7.23/32in gauge track based on the REA/SRE design, which doesn't use self-checking crossings.

 

Martin.

[Andy Reichert]

On 30/04/2020 at 13:42, hayfield said:

 

I spent the evening trying to carefully cut out some thick card to see the possibilities of building a small layout with some inset track, for a first attempt the cutting out is a 5/10 as it got better as I went along, but needs to be so much better for the layout. The card being 1.9mm thick is nearly the correct thickness, but no good for shaping, plastic would be far easier to shape, but looks like plastic, I am leaning towards either ply or balsa/harder wood, as it can be worked but is a softer surface than plastic

 

 

Building in P4 allows thin flangeways, all check rails can be on a flatter angle, I can cut wood slightly oversize then work it to the correct profile, gaps on the non running side of the rail can be filled with filler. 

 

I think the experiment worked by flagging up a couple of issues. I think the next stage would be to build a turnout and try ply as a filler. Looks like a P4 mini layout is finally in the offing 

 

From your picture  (top right) it looks as though you might be using the crossing flange way and and check rail widths for the running clearances. If so, your vehicles will end up using the filler as check rails, with serious rubbing and rail climbing issues. The clearance should be the wider span clearance instead as used at level crossings and the like.

 

If you or anyone else is interested in a simpler building method, I do have P4 inset track rail and individual parts available, including #6 crossings and now even the #6 K frog (unannounced but available in limited quantities).

 

Andy

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[hayfield]

Andy

 

Thanks for your offer,

 

If you read the thread you would see that firstly the infills at the moment are purely for trial purposes, secondly I have discounted the approach in using card as it has proved unsuitable. Using balsa wood for the infill looks promising and I am about to try using cork, also I have decided to change the style of check rails

 

The turnouts are both curved as is the plain track and I doubt if your infills would fit without a lot of alteration. Hopefully by the time I get to making usable infills I will have found a material best suited to being worked, and am able to build to the appropriate tolerances. All infills will have to pass having a wagon running through them without rubbing against the infill, I may even build a non motorised test loco chassis. The aim though will be to have the smallest gaps between rail and infill, will it happen in practice lets see. Thanks for the interest

 

I am also trying to think of a way in keeping the baseboard as light as possible, I have a few thoughts, but nothing firm yet.

[Andy Reichert]

 

Just in case I confused anyone. I don't make infills to insert between rails. Instead I came up with a model form of girder rail which, like the prototype, has a built in flange way with a metal inner checking edge. So it can be safely used at check flange way dimension.

 

 

As you can see, any subsequent modelled infill is completely separated from the wheels by the inner rail edges. In these particular examples, I'm showing gauge narrowing to allow for the use of standard HO wheel sets with the stated limitations of reduced running clearances.  I don't use or have any P4 gauged track myself. But using it at 18.83 mm gauge would have no limitations other than those of P4 itself.

 

In terms of traditional hand building, it can be used in the same way except you are laying girder rail instead of BH or FB rail.

 

Andy

[mullie]

Where do you buy girder rail?

[hayfield]

11 minutes ago, mullie said:

Where do you buy girder rail?

 

 

No idea, at one time I think it could be bought for use for trams, there was and perhaps still is a supplier in the midlands or the north. Have a recollection PC coaches did some tram stuff

 

A quick search on here came up with these

 

http://www.trolleyville.com/catalog-ho.html

 

Do have a recollection of either someone laying code 100 FB on its side into copperclad sleepers, or was it using code 75 laid vertically with code 55 on its side, but this is for trams rather than railways