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PECO turnout design change


panzerjaeger

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The 'new' type certainly go a long way in improving appearance. I'm currently preparing things ready to start track-laying on a new project and had already decided to use handbuilt track mainly because of the clunky, unprototypical appearence of the Peco product. This new design, however, could tempt me into changing my mind and going for Code 75. The point is, when are they going to be commonly available? Someone mentioned previously about checking at point of purchase. How many retailers will be willing to open each box to find out? Not many I would imagine. After all, they have a lot of money invested in their stock with a comparatively small profit margin at the end of it, and they need to clear those items before reordering. It strikes me that this will be a golden opportunity to support the smaller, local model shops who will have a faster turnover of stock. Perhaps someone from Peco could advise us of a suitable timeline. I for one would certainly be interested, for the simple reason that I like Peco products. They've made life much easier for us lesser mortals when it comes to our dream layout but this is a long overdue improvement to a generally fine product.

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The 'new' type certainly go a long way in improving appearance. I'm currently preparing things ready to start track-laying on a new project and had already decided to use handbuilt track mainly because of the clunky, unprototypical appearence of the Peco product. This new design, however, could tempt me into changing my mind and going for Code 75. The point is, when are they going to be commonly available? Someone mentioned previously about checking at point of purchase. How many retailers will be willing to open each box to find out? Not many I would imagine. After all, they have a lot of money invested in their stock with a comparatively small profit margin at the end of it, and they need to clear those items before reordering. It strikes me that this will be a golden opportunity to support the smaller, local model shops who will have a faster turnover of stock. Perhaps someone from Peco could advise us of a suitable timeline. I for one would certainly be interested, for the simple reason that I like Peco products. They've made life much easier for us lesser mortals when it comes to our dream layout but this is a long overdue improvement to a generally fine product.

 

Why would a reputable dealer (regardless of size) take offence to a polite question as to whether or not the stock is to the latest type? They might not even know that the design has changed. You as a customer have the final choice as to whether or not you're going to buy them, unless your happy to confirm they are the new version.

 

The retailer is unlikely to be 'stuck with the old ones', as the next customer probably doesn't know the design has changed. If he does get stuck with them, all he has to do is ask Peco for replacements as swap overs.

 

Kevin Martin

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How many retailers will be willing to open each box to find out?

 

Any worth their reputation, most will be able to palm off old ones on the unsuspecting/uncaring customer. The fact that you come to a reputable retailer with additional knowledge should normally mean that you are a potential regular customer worth cultivating. It is a bit like asking to see a loco running on their test track, most of the good retailers will have one (some even have complete layouts) and will be glad to reassure the purchaser that they should be retailer of choice - the old model shop may be hard to find these days but they know that customer service is they key to success.

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Absolutely. You might not get the same sort of response from a general hobby shop which has a "railway department" (half a dozen red or blue boxes of random content somewhere between the artists' paper and fairy glitter) but I would expect any model railway retailer to offer inspection of goods which one was considering purchasing. How else does one know - in some cases at least - that the item in the box is in fact what you want? It also confirms the item is on good condition and avoids a potential need to return it later if defective.

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Not so easy if you are ordering my mail/internet. If I asked a mail order shop to check each box, I can't be sure that theywill done so and I don't want the hassle of having returns with arguments about who pays the postage.

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Not so easy if you are ordering my mail/internet. If I asked a mail order shop to check each box, I can't be sure that theywill done so and I don't want the hassle of having returns with arguments about who pays the postage.

 

I acknowledge that many of us prefer to shop this way and for quite a few it is the only option short of a very long trip to the nearest model shop. But I can't come up with any other way to be sure about what you are getting. You can always ask when you order online for the new version to be supplied but there's no guarantee you will get them and there might be no come-back given that the items are still fit fir purpose, carry the identical catalogue number and are simply a slightly different design.

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This is really a fault of Peco's own making. With such a difference they should have been a little more active in marketing the changed product both for their customers and their retailers. A simple addition to the code or a different number would have been relatively easy to have done. Perhaps they do not see the change as significant? Perhaps they really do not care? Perhaps they too have a pile of old stock to shift. After all it is not as though the old ones didn't work - just that some of its customers have suddenly become fussy.

 

To me it makes no difference, I'll still have to butcher the new ones to get rid of those handles, the Peco Solenoid mounting plates and to get them into shape electrically - but I have long accepted those changes.

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Not so easy if you are ordering my mail/internet. If I asked a mail order shop to check each box, I can't be sure that theywill done so and I don't want the hassle of having returns with arguments about who pays the postage.

 

Taking a worse case scenario.

Would you feel the same about ordering a Hornby Class 31 diesel and NOT asking to clarify that they check that it isn't the version with the corroding chassis? Or do you think it's acceptable for a retailer to sell you any old Class 31 diesel with a defect, because they might not want to bother opening a box?

 

If they can't be bothered checking and/or supply you with the wrong goods, after specifically asking, then they have no right to expect further business from you.

 

 

A friend of mine was sick & asked his wife to pick up a couple of lengths of Peco track and gave her the part number, etc. His wife was hoodwinked into buying another brand as it was 'cheaper and just as good'. In his opinion, it didn't flex as easily.

 

When he took them back a couple of days later, the same sales person told him that they would take them back, but at half price, as it was now 'used'. Needless to say, he didn't set foot in the shop for the next 20 years - until the same owner retired. So the $2.00 or whatever they ripped him off, cost them dearly in the long run.

 

All they had to do was sell the correct part in the first place.

 

Kevin Martin

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I agree with what you are saying Kevin.

 

However if I order sufficient turnouts for my terminal station and some or all are not what I asked for, it is small compensation for me to "never use that shop again" when I still have the hassle and expense of trying to put it right.

 

I suppose I can't get an absolute guarantee but I am trying to see if there is a way of maximising the chances.

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I suspect that Peco have a clause hidden in their "small print" to the effect that "improvements to any of their products may take place without notice".

 

I don't use Peco by choice because I find more significant the issue of the amount of metal they remove from both the closure and running rails on their switches. Plus their switches/turnouts are all "loose - heeled" like the majority of US prototype trackwork

 

Hey, that's just me!

 

Best, Pete.

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Why would a reputable dealer (regardless of size) take offence to a polite question as to whether or not the stock is to the latest type? They might not even know that the design has changed. You as a customer have the final choice as to whether or not you're going to buy them, unless your happy to confirm they are the new version.

 

The retailer is unlikely to be 'stuck with the old ones', as the next customer probably doesn't know the design has changed. If he does get stuck with them, all he has to do is ask Peco for replacements as swap overs.

 

Kevin Martin

 

I seem to have stirred up something of a hornets nest here which was not my intention. However I would point out that I did not say that any reputable dealer (i.e. the vast majority) would take offence at being asked if the stock in question was the latest type! What I did say was that some would probably be reluctant to start opening boxes to confirm it! Perhaps I'm lucky in having a top-notch local dealer in the form of Richard at the Train Shop here in Morecambe who has never been less than helpful on all matters related to railways from model to prototype. As has been pointed out some of the larger retailers, though fortunately not the majority, may not be as concientious. As for dealers being 'stuck with the old ones' again I did not say this nor am I aware of Peco's policy reguarding exchanges with their dealership!

I would also agree with Kenton and Gwiwer that any reputable dealer would be happy to oblige. I also agree with Kenton in that the fault may lie with Peco themselves. After all they provide new models to the media, why not trackwork when it has had a major upgrade such as this. I certainly don't recall having seen any announcement in the model railway press. I fact I only became aware of it via this thread. Peco track, whilst excellent in itself has always suffered from being based on a HO prototype so any upgrade to a more representative English outline can only be welcomed. Also, as far as I am aware the same base moulding is used for Code 100 and Code 75 for economic reasons so I will assume that these changes are universal. For myself I am going to follow Colin_McLeods lead and await any reply from Peco before commenting further!

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No harm in stirring the hornet's nest if it gives rise to a sensible and informed discussion.

 

Aside from the changes to Peco points their track bases have also changed and - I suspect - the exact metal content of the rails. I don't have the scientific equipment to test and support that assertion but taking a recent purchase as an example the sleeper base (of good old SL100 - the yard length of Code 100 flexi with "wooden" sleepers) is more flexible than all previous purchases, is a different shade of brown (which appears to be "brighter"), with the sleeper edges somewhat rounded as opposed to having crisply-moulded corners and the top moulding to represent wood is subtly different. The chairs - which one normally shaves off to fit joiners - offer more "give" so the composition of the plastic is definitely softer. The metalwork bends more easily to my feel than did earlier iterations and yields softly to the Xuron cutters rather than going with a sharp "snap". There is however no change in the clean cut - minimal or no flash is left to rub down.

 

In conversation with staff at both Train World and Bracnh Line - the two shops I can access within an hour's drive - both are of the opinion that Peco have completely retooled their track range and are using different compositions possibly to save money in hard times. Time will tell just how robust the new track is. All the old stuff has lasted very well outdoors for up to seven years now.

 

Hornet's nest? Me? Noooooooooooooo ;)

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I just looked at some new code 75 electrofrog turnouts purchased from Hattons about 4 months ago and they appear to be the new pattern with the narrow throw bar. I have not installed them yet as they are being stockpiled for my new version of Padstow that is still in design.

 

They are packaged in the box in a shallow cream colored tray rather than a clear plastic bag. I have never seen this type of packaging in the box from Peco before. But then I am new to using Code 75.

 

The instruction sheet is still the same.

 

The code 100 Peco turnouts at my local hobby shop are still the old style. Peco Code 100 sells fairly well in the US but the long supply chain through distributors has probably not cleared out the old version.

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Hi

I received the following e mail from PECO

It is quite informative in that it identifies which turnouts have been updated.

 

Dear Sir.

Thank you for your Email.

As we update the OO code 100 points we will not be renumbering them as they are not a new product requiring a new catalogue number. The small, medium and large radius points plus the curved points have already been updated and this took place over the last 2 years so all new stock will be of this type. The small Y will not be modified, and the slips and crossings do not require modifying. The large Y will be updated in due course. If you are having problems obtaining our products we can supply any item by mail order, please phone us on 00 44 1297 21542 to place an order.

Kind regards

A Beard

PECO Technical Advice Bureau

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Both an informative response and an acknowledgement that Pritchard's (PECO) have finally moved into the modern era of electronic mail ;) . They have become known in recent years for not having a website, not offering email contact and - as they rectified those matters - still lagging way behind what might be termed "best practice".

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My apologies Gwiwer. I just detected a little in the comment

still lagging way behind what might be termed "best practice".

 

TBH, it was as much aimed at myself for my earlier comments. Although I do praise them for their speed and openness of response, I am not sure if it makes much sense. The product has changed, they acknowledge the fact, but to the discerning customer ordering from a normal retail outlet, probably not at Peco's MRP, they remain unable to differentiate new format stock. This has further impact when it comes to s/h points purchased perhaps through eBay.

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I just looked at some new code 75 electrofrog turnouts purchased from Hattons about 4 months ago and they appear to be the new pattern with the narrow throw bar. I have not installed them yet as they are being stockpiled for my new version of Padstow that is still in design.

They are packaged in the box in a shallow cream colored tray rather than a clear plastic bag. I have never seen this type of packaging in the box from Peco before. But then I am new to using Code 75.

The instruction sheet is still the same.

The code 100 Peco turnouts at my local hobby shop are still the old style. Peco Code 100 sells fairly well in the US but the long supply chain through distributors has probably not cleared out the old version.

 

The known code 75 turnout bases are different from - and better than - the old code 100, and the code 75 packaging is also as described by Ken. The tiebar arrangement in the new code 100, as shown in Rick's photo in post 14, seems to be a further improvement; has anyone seen it in a code 75 turnout, or is another query to Peco called for?

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The known code 75 turnout bases are different from - and better than - the old code 100, and the code 75 packaging is also as described by Ken. The tiebar arrangement in the new code 100, as shown in Rick's photo in post 14, seems to be a further improvement; has anyone seen it in a code 75 turnout, or is another query to Peco called for?

 

Here's a picture of my recently purchased (from a well know high turnover supplier) Code 75 turnout, It still looks like the old style mechanism to me.

post-11105-0-67679300-1342546779.jpg

 

and after a few minutes with a scaple.

 

post-11105-0-29156700-1342548246.jpg

 

Ray

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