Dock Green

[Hal Nail]

Yes, I agree, it's one of the most challenging weathering tasks.

 

I've just been given a copy of MRJ issue 262 and this has an article by Martyn Welch on unpainted wagons.

 

Hmmm. I've got a rake of Lionheart minerals i've been trying to do in a late BR weather-beaten wood look and not really happy with them (either looks too grey or too brown but never that in between colour of real wood!).

Now i've seen those photos I'm tempted to substitute real wood for the bodies and have an etch made up for the strapping...

[sb67]

The dirtying of the bridge looks spot on Chaz. I 've got that copy of MRJ, bought it after I'd started my wagons, I'd like to try those techniques sometime. I'm sure they could be used in 4mm, I think the reason it's a bit harder is there is no relief and I'm trying to make a flat bit of plastic look like a plank of wood.

Steve.

[3 link]

The dirtying of the bridge looks spot on Chaz. I 've got that copy of MRJ, bought it after I'd started my wagons, I'd like to try those techniques sometime. I'm sure they could be used in 4mm, I think the reason it's a bit harder is there is no relief and I'm trying to make a flat bit of plastic look like a plank of wood.

Steve.

Hi Steve,

 

The timber on this crossing was made with coffee stirrers from a well know coffee chain,

 

 

Martyn.

[sb67]

They look good Martyn, I do have a collection of coffee stirrers which I have yet to find a use for ;-)

Steve.

[Simond]

I bought a box of a thousand on eBay for a few quid. Useful for modelling materials, soldering splints, paint stirrers. Good value.

 

I used them to make the planks to go over my point timbers where the levers are. They were a bit thick so I sanded them down using my bench drill and a sanding drum. Stained with a mix of very thin Indian ink, and some acrylic.

 

Best

Simon

[chaz]

Hmmm. I've got a rake of Lionheart minerals i've been trying to do in a late BR weather-beaten wood look and not really happy with them (either looks too grey or too brown but never that in between colour of real wood!).

Now i've seen those photos I'm tempted to substitute real wood for the bodies and have an etch made up for the strapping...

 

 

That would certainly be an interesting way to model a 7mm mineral. It would present a few problems not the least of which might be getting the right thickness for the planking. Of course if you were going to have the strapping etched you could go the whole hog and do the washer plates for the interior and then drill the sides. You could pass wire "bolts" through and solder them to the metalwork inside and out.

 

On the other hand you could just play around with enamels or acrylics and get something fairly convincing...

 

 

An unkind close-up of a wagon destined shortly to be branded "Loco coal - one trip only".

 

 

One thing to remember is, unless you are making a spotlit feature of a wagon in its own glass case, it will be only one part of a larger scene, as the one closest to the camera is in the snap above.

[Hal Nail]

On the other hand you could just play around with enamels or acrylics and get something fairly convincing...

 

 

That does look good - I particularly like the grey planks under the door stops. The photos I was working from were of a rake that had weathered to a really quite dark grey, a bit like the sooty parts of your bridge decking. I found trying to do a whole wagon like that very hard to get convincing - it just looked like weathered dark grey paint! Looking at your wagon it is the dry brushed grain that really tricks the eye into seeing wood.

[chaz]

That does look good - I particularly like the grey planks under the door stops. The photos I was working from were of a rake that had weathered to a really quite dark grey, a bit like the sooty parts of your bridge decking. I found trying to do a whole wagon like that very hard to get convincing - it just looked like weathered dark grey paint! Looking at your wagon it is the dry brushed grain that really tricks the eye into seeing wood.

 

 

It wasn't actually dry-brushed. What I did was to paint the planks with Humbrol "natural wood" and let that dry. Then I painted it a second colour - a light grey - and while that paint was wet I marked the paint with a cocktail stick, allowing the first colour to show through. You could use two different shades of grey. 

I have also used a scriber on planks to produce grain or "splits". You need to be subtle - suggestion is best.

 

HTH

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Bridge #2 - 5

 

The last posting on bridge #2 with some pictures of the finished bridge in position.

 

 

 

 

 

Chaz

 

 

 

[chaz]

Just found these two views.

 

First a view from the headshunt, with the grade up from the estate on the right. The saddle tank in the distance has just shunted the coal empties and will return, light, to the headshunt shortly.

 

 

Please excuse the awful gap between the point blade and the stock rail - what do Peco imagine we want to fit through there?

 

The second view is looking up the grade from the estate. The saddle tank is trundling back to the headshunt. behind the signal post you can glimpse the N7 which will soon couple to the coal empties to haul them back to Ferme Park.

 

 

Chaz

Edited April 12, 2018 by chaz

[John Rich]

Haven't had a chance to look in on this thread for a couple of days, fantastic sequence of photos from the development of the bridgework down to the unpainted wood wagons, this layout is truly superb.

 

I'm a bit miffed at the moment as my new and hardly run Dapol Jinty has sheared a crank pin nut of all things, good response from Dapol service who are going to fit a new wheel set but if I hadn't been lazy and built a kit I could have fixed it myself, hey ho !!!

 

Seeing layouts like this keeps morale up.

 

John

[sb67]

That wagon does look good Chaz, how do you treat the underframes?

Steve.

[chaz]

Haven't had a chance to look in on this thread for a couple of days, fantastic sequence of photos from the development of the bridgework down to the unpainted wood wagons, this layout is truly superb.

 

I'm a bit miffed at the moment as my new and hardly run Dapol Jinty has sheared a crank pin nut of all things, good response from Dapol service who are going to fit a new wheel set but if I hadn't been lazy and built a kit I could have fixed it myself, hey ho !!!

 

Seeing layouts like this keeps morale up.

 

John

 

 

Thanks for the very positive comments John. Always nice when people take the time to comment, keeps my morale up!

 

ATB

 

Chaz

[chaz]

That wagon does look good Chaz, how do you treat the underframes?

Steve.

 

Nothing very clever Steve. Matte black enamel, dry brushed with rust colours here and there and "filth" - a mixture of black and leather. I also add talc - it makes the surface look gritty. If it looks too obvious I would overspray a light dusting of the "filth" mix. 

I go easy on rust on more modern wagons but by 1959 timber mineral wagons were definitely on the way out.

 

Chaz

[sb67]

Thanks Chaz, I'm definitely taking notes ;-) I seem to get caught up in trying to do too much and overdo things, I really like the subtlety  of your weathering.

Steve.

[chaz]

Thanks Chaz, I'm definitely taking notes ;-) I seem to get caught up in trying to do too much and overdo things, I really like the subtlety  of your weathering.

Steve.

 

 

Just to reassure you Steve, I didn't get there in one bound. It took a while to get the look I wanted on some of the stock. Also it's worth remembering that you can always return to something which you think is overdone. Don't try and strip it off, just overspray it with a light coat of black or filth. This will work wonders by toning it all down. Talc or a grey weathering powder might well have the same effect. 

 

HTH

 

Chaz

[sb67]

Thanks Chaz, I am enjoying myself so I guess that's the main thing. Thanks for your I inspiration.I

Steve.

[chaz]

Thanks Chaz, I am enjoying myself so I guess that's the main thing. Thanks for your I inspiration.I

Steve.

 

 

It is the main thing - some modelling tasks are tricky and none of us is good at everything but aren't the tricky bits satisfying when you get it right? 

 

Chaz

[The Bigbee Line]

Wagons and Vans on Dock Green 36 - the last one

 

It seems a good idea to end this series of posts on the goods stock with a brake van.

 

P1030783-2-1.jpg

 

B596723 is a BR 20T brake. This was a development of the LNER design with the footboards extended to the full length of the wagon and with handrails fitted above the concrete platform weights. The LNER switched to concrete ballast during the war when the scrap metal previously used became valuable for the war effort.

 

P1030784-2-1.jpg

 

My model is from the excellent Connoisseur kit. I have said before that I prefer brass to plastic for brake vans as the detail is more secure when soldered in place - important for an exhibition layout where the stock is liable to be handled more.

 

121-2182_img-1.jpg

 

The cabin body can be tricky to assemble accurately so I adopt the method shown above. I fold the bottom flange attached to the sides to an accurate right angle and screw them to a piece of flat board (MDF is a good choice). There is no need to drill the flange, screws with washers under their heads will grip the edge with a bit of scrap etch to pack the screw and keep it flat. This ploy allows me to adjust the two sides so that they are exactly parallel, lined up and the right distance apart. Once the screws are tightened the cabin ends and verandah ends can be soldered in place with no risk of introducing odd angles or other errors as the sides can’t move.

 

P1020878-2-1.jpg

 

A comparison between the BR fitted (bauxite) and unfitted (grey) vans that run on Dock Green. The latter is from the Slater’s plastic kit. The only obvious difference between the kits is the height of the duckets - looking at photos of the real vans I think the Slater’s model may be more accurate in this respect. 

 

Strictly speaking the BR fitted vans were only piped, so that the guard could apply the vacuum brakes of the train, the van’s brakes being applied with a hand wheel, as they were in the unfitted brake.

 

P1050150-1.jpg

 

A last snap of the brake van at the rear of a train that has just arrived in the yard.

 

****************************************************

 

I may not have covered quite every wagon that runs on Dock Green (the odd one or two may have slipped through the net) but that’s the end of this series.

 

Phew!

 

Chaz

Chaz,

 

Sorry if this is out of sync with the rest of the thread.  I have the same kit sitting in it's posh plastic case waiting for assembly.  How did you assemble the duckets?  Any tips?

 

Thanks

 

Ernie

[Donw]

That would certainly be an interesting way to model a 7mm mineral. It would present a few problems not the least of which might be getting the right thickness for the planking. Of course if you were going to have the strapping etched you could go the whole hog and do the washer plates for the interior and then drill the sides. You could pass wire "bolts" through and solder them to the metalwork inside and out.

 

On the other hand you could just play around with enamels or acrylics and get something fairly convincing...

 

P1050455-3.jpg

 

An unkind close-up of a wagon destined shortly to be branded "Loco coal - one trip only".

 

P1060244-2-1.jpg

 

One thing to remember is, unless you are making a spotlit feature of a wagon in its own glass case, it will be only one part of a larger scene, as the one closest to the camera is in the snap above.

 

1/16" (1.6mm) ply works out as a little over 2 inches in 7mm which sounds about right for wagon planking. Of course if you cut the sides and then score them to represent planks The grain will run extend across the planks so real close up it might show. You could cut it into planks and glue them together or use 1/32 ply with strips of 1/64 planks each side but life's too short. I have made some bodies using 1/16 ply but it can be time consuming making the end stanchions and the strapping etc. Even then you still need to do a good weathering job or all the planks looks too alike. I assume the one in the photo is not real wood looks like it is though.

 

Don

[chaz]

1/16" (1.6mm) ply works out as a little over 2 inches in 7mm which sounds about right for wagon planking. Of course if you cut the sides and then score them to represent planks The grain will run extend across the planks so real close up it might show. You could cut it into planks and glue them together or use 1/32 ply with strips of 1/64 planks each side but life's too short. I have made some bodies using 1/16 ply but it can be time consuming making the end stanchions and the strapping etc. Even then you still need to do a good weathering job or all the planks looks too alike. I assume the one in the photo is not real wood looks like it is though.

 

Don

 

 

Agreed Don. I think I would only scratch build a wagon if I wanted to do it for the enjoyment of the build. With so many excellent kits in both brass and plastic I can't see the need.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

Chaz,

 

Sorry if this is out of sync with the rest of the thread.  I have the same kit sitting in it's posh plastic case waiting for assembly.  How did you assemble the duckets?  Any tips?

 

Thanks

 

Ernie

 

Well Ernie, "Posh plastic case" suggests that your kit is not a Connoisseur - which to the best of my knowledge have always come in a polythene bag with a stout piece of card to protect the etches.

The duckets in most of the Connoisseur kits - certainly the BR 20T standard van - are white-metal and I solder them in place. I have never had to assemble duckets - except on the 10T NER van which is a simple assembly of etched brass.

 

Sorry I can't be more help.

 

Chaz

[The Bigbee Line]

Well Ernie, "Posh plastic case" suggests that your kit is not a Connoisseur - which to the best of my knowledge have always come in a polythene bag with a stout piece of card to protect the etches.

The duckets in most of the Connoisseur kits - certainly the BR 20T standard van - are white-metal and I solder them in place. I have never had to assemble duckets - except on the 10T NER van which is a simple assembly of etched brass.

 

Sorry I can't be more help.

 

Chaz

Chaz,

 

The posh plastic case turned out to be a M and M models version.  Just need to 'man up' and make a start.

 

Ernie

[chaz]

Chaz,

 

The posh plastic case turned out to be a M and M models version.  Just need to 'man up' and make a start.

 

Ernie

 

 

You could start a topic and post details of your build.....

[chaz]

Just a final, timely reminder...

 

Dock Green will be at Railex 2018 this coming weekend at the Stoke Mandeville Stadium in Aylesbury.  (HP21 9PP). 

 

http://www.railex.org.uk

 

Have a look at the list of layouts, it looks like being a very good show and worth a trip to see. If you do go, seek us out and say hello.

 

Chaz