RMweb Premium Steven B Posted June 27, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 27, 2012 ND203A is in fact an RFG class 56 #56005 i.e. large logo grey, no red-stripe? Would be great if you could list the catalogue numbers, loco numbers & liveries of each model you're producing. If Hattons haven't got it right what chance do the rest of us have? I suppose this is one case where a catalogue would come in handy! Happy modelling. Steven B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Well as you asked so nicely ND204A #56005 Railfreight Grey ND204B #56013 Triple Grey Coal Sector ND204C #56006 BR Blue ND204D #56018 EWS Maroon No, no red stripe. However let's see how these sell first shall we? N gauge is in the doldrums sales wise, due to various factors, and as such we are only manufacturing 300 of each of these as testers. I doubt we'd need to make much more to satisfy any demand to be honest as it isnt really there at the moment, and even if it was it was only for 500 units during the 'peak' of the economy. (but that's another chapter in my memoirs that i might cover). cheers Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluedepot Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Re ND203A Class 56 #56019 Red Stripe Railfreight Grey oh... i pre-ordered this red stripe one, so not sure what will happen now.... i'm happy to swap it for another livery.... presumably the shop i pre-ordered from will contact me about this in due course. anyway the model looks very good so congrats to Dapol. i'm also very happy with my hst, 58 and 121. Tim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 I dont want to be critical (again!?) but also the bodyside grille mesh is incorrect for a rommy 56. It should be square pattern not diamond as fitted to all the british built machines. I must comment that this body with the cabside windows tweaked would be perfect for an early british built loco which is a shame it has been released as a rommy really. The pic below shows the grille mesh on 013 albeit in blue at the time. http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/5808969884/ But as I have said I think this is a cracking model and if I did N would be placing an order now!! Cav Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Battersby Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 i think these look amazing! Particularly like the coal sector. I've done a quick Google and couldn't find the answer so, Dave could you tell me what the main differences are between the Doncaster and Romanian built engines? Or will they look very simialr? Do you have any idea at this stage as to what liveries you'll be producing for the Doncaster locos? Thanks! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted June 27, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 27, 2012 oh... i pre-ordered this red stripe one, so not sure what will happen now.... i'm happy to swap it for another livery.... presumably the shop i pre-ordered from will contact me about this in due course. Tim - I am in the same boat as you! I pre-orded a redstripe from Hattons but I think I will cancel it and then reorder once Hattens have amended their listing in line with Dapols. I had a similar episode with the 121 which resulting in them sending me two, however Hattons were excellent and reinbursed me fully including return postage from Spain. Back on topic...I know that various critiscisms are gradually appearing but each time I open the thread and see the pics they blow me away Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted June 27, 2012 Share Posted June 27, 2012 Hi guys, I think the thing to remember here is that we could have done the Romanian 56 as accurate as possible for an "as built" machine. But they were so badly built that they soon got modified in 1 way or another. I remember when the black main headlight rubber from it got replaced for the Doncaster built light seal, took me back a bit. However, with N gauge being a relatively small return sales wise for our investment I'm afraid I had to choose a version that, like the RFM buffets , I could live with. This is the case here I'm afraid. I hope people can live with the small details and perhaps TPM can do replacement grilles etc as an after market product. If Bernard wants I'll gladly send him a body so that he can draw up some grills. The Romanian is a different beast to the Doncaster machines. The front is flatter, I believe the side windows are different, and the main grill. Don't forget that after #50 or 55 the horn grill changed, and the first 30 started out with round buffers but changed buffer shanks for later ones as time went on. No doubt it's a minefield, and I'm sorry we couldn't do every version cost effectively, but Doncaster ones are drawn up ready for 2013 or there abouts Cheers Dave 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul tpxguard Posted June 28, 2012 Share Posted June 28, 2012 well all i can say is you swines Dapol my credit card is nevr going to recover i was only going to get two romys and two donnys now ive had to start thinking about overtime at work lol 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted June 28, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 28, 2012 With a class of 135 locos lasting nearly forty years there's bound to be some detail errors. What was right for one loco in one year might not have been correct a year later! If the detail differences bother you then at least you'll have a much better starting point for modelling your chosen loco than you would have had if you'd started with the Farish 56. How many people grumbling about detail errors ever corrected the roof-line on the Farish model? Dapol Dave's outlined the reasons why some details are missing or wrong. Realistically, once the model is running on a layout just how many people will know that some detail is wrong unless they're an expert on that class or have a picture of the real thing. I'm not the former and I don't do the latter! Happy modelling. Steven B. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scruff Posted June 29, 2012 Share Posted June 29, 2012 i.e. large logo grey, no red-stripe? Would be great if you could list the catalogue numbers, loco numbers & liveries of each model you're producing. If Hattons haven't got it right what chance do the rest of us have? I suppose this is one case where a catalogue would come in handy! Happy modelling. Steven B. Rails have done the same and have it as red stripe railfreight too.. Mark Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
59205 Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Rails have done the same and have it as red stripe railfreight too.. Mark This months model rail magazine also describes this one as a forthcoming release. Production versions changed after announcement perhaps? as it seems a bit strange for 3 different sources to have this apparently incorrect information. Anyways hopefully a red stripe version will be produced in the future! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Hi 59205 Apparently? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
59205 Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 From thread ' Dapol Cl 56 in "N" - When? ' Posted 06 February 2012 - 19:45 Hi Lee, Initial releases will be Romanian version BR blue Red stripe rfg Coal sector. Plans are in hand for others later this year before we move onto the Doncaster built versions of which we have done the cad/cams already. Hope this helps Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Hi 59205, Please read post 28 above. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
59205 Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 Hi 59205, Please read post 28 above. Cheers Dave Hi Dave I had read that which was what prompted me to respond. I knew I had read on here in the past for the plans for a red stripe 56 so pasted it for that reason. Also to prove I wasn't going completely mad as i placed a pre-order with Rails shortly after it! I'm not after an argument, and i'm not going to cry about the fact there is no red stripe 56 (there really are more important things in life!! ) my intention has been purely to back up my suggestion that maybe the intended production list was amended slightly. Best wishes with the project anyway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DapolDave Posted June 30, 2012 Share Posted June 30, 2012 No problem mate. We do change things a bit. You will find this also happens as we change catalogue numbers or decide not to do a model we have already announced for some reason. I know we are trying to get this 'fixed' with the catalogue when it's out. Cheers Dave 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted June 30, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 30, 2012 ...with the catalogue when it's out. I cancelled my pre order with Hattons and sent them a kind note to suggest they realigned their stock list with yourselves.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
oreamnos Posted July 2, 2012 Share Posted July 2, 2012 All this talk about red stripes when the only one I'm interested in is ND204C #56006 BR Blue! Is the plan to issue all 4 liveries mentioned in post #28 at the same time, or not? Matt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Robert Shrives Posted July 3, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 3, 2012 Hi Guys loco looks really good and will be well used on my layout. There is a good Grids book out - a couple of years ago but as noted with 135 locos from 3 factories and several versions from Doncaster it would have been a massive investment to tool for all sorts of changes . I understand 3 cab designs, two horn covers , two grill choices on main grill plus later EWS mod at No 2 end on cant rail grills , buffer shape and cowls - with three versions of cowl - each getting less and less! Head lights, front handrails, marker lights, cab handrails give a mass to be going at. The recent range of independent operators give rise to even more livery variations... plently of scope for modelling Robert Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 Am I the only on who thinks the cabs are out of proportion? The window area looks too shallow and the area below it too tall. Cheers Jim 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RBE Posted July 3, 2012 Share Posted July 3, 2012 I agree Jim, I'm not sure the windows look too small but they feel too high up on the body with the roof profile not quite right as I suggested in my first post. Hi guys, I think the thing to remember here is that we could have done the Romanian 56 as accurate as possible for an "as built" machine. But they were so badly built that they soon got modified in 1 way or another. I remember when the black main headlight rubber from it got replaced for the Doncaster built light seal, took me back a bit. However, with N gauge being a relatively small return sales wise for our investment I'm afraid I had to choose a version that, like the RFM buffets , I could live with. This is the case here I'm afraid. I hope people can live with the small details and perhaps TPM can do replacement grilles etc as an after market product. If Bernard wants I'll gladly send him a body so that he can draw up some grills. The Romanian is a different beast to the Doncaster machines. The front is flatter, I believe the side windows are different, and the main grill. Don't forget that after #50 or 55 the horn grill changed, and the first 30 started out with round buffers but changed buffer shanks for later ones as time went on. No doubt it's a minefield, and I'm sorry we couldn't do every version cost effectively, but Doncaster ones are drawn up ready for 2013 or there abouts Cheers Dave I understand the economics of what you can do for a mass market but what I question is why do them as a romanian version when most of the details match an early doncaster machine (31 to 55) more closely? The only thing different to the doncaster loco (56031 to 56055) that the Dapol has is the cabside slightly rounded quarterlight. Everything else (save the modded roof grille at the No2 end which is a later post privatisation mod in any case) is as per the early doncaster machine yet its released as a romanian one. To make it a proper romanian loco (56001 to 56030) you would have to change the main side grille mesh and add a bufferbeam cowl. The fronts weren't any flatter on the first doncaster locos (upto 56055), the cab shape change was after 56056 and on the later crewe built locos. To be honest I dont think its a lot of work to make either build (the post 56055 is a different animal). An alternative square mesh etch and a bit of extra plastic down the side of the bufferbeam (the doncaster locos upto 55 had the lip as per the Dapol model in any case but with oval buffers, locos over 55 had no lip or cowl and a larger horn grille and flat top nose) to make the rommy and a quick lick with a file to the inner corners of the cap quarterlight for an early donny if the rad is particularly noticable in N at normal none macro viewing. Job done. Granted the later locos are a bit different but the differences in the first 30 to the 31 to 55 locos are so small that doing the alternative details to make them right is minor to say the least. I just don't get why it is released as a rommy when it already is a cracking early Donny! Cav Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neil Posted July 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 4, 2012 Am I the only on who thinks the cabs are out of proportion? The window area looks too shallow and the area below it too tall. Cheers Jim I agree Jim, I'm not sure the windows look too small but they feel too high up on the body with the roof profile not quite right as I suggested in my first post. .... Cav It was Cav's initial post that sent me away looking at photos of the real thing to compare with the piccies of the Dapol model. I've come to the same conclusion that Jim has. It was the cab side windows that stood out the most, leading on to a realisation that the proportions at the front appear to be thrown out too. Here's a photo of a real life example to compare the model to. I'm not sure that the chunky wire handrails (and the weird sunken effect of their locating holes) does the model any favours. I realise that in N there's more of a robustness/scale compromise to be made, but I can't help but feel that a thinner moulded representation would be better than chunky wire. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted July 4, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 4, 2012 There's always the CJM model if you don't like the Dapol one: http://www.cjmmodels.co.uk/V2-Products/CJM_Class_56.htm Alternativly there's plenty of Farish ones knocking about. Or the old P&D Marsh kit. Or scratch build your own. I'll be happy watching the Dapol large-logo grey one haulling 39 HAAs around my layout.... Happy modelling. Steven B. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold bcnPete Posted July 4, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 4, 2012 Alternativly there's plenty of Farish ones knocking about. You mean this one? http://www.ehattons.com/8767/Graham_Farish_371_300_Class_56_diesel_56105_in_EW_S_maroon_livery/StockDetail.aspx No thanks - I'm with you...I'll wait for the Dapol one... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zunnan Posted July 4, 2012 Share Posted July 4, 2012 Am I the only on who thinks the cabs are out of proportion? The window area looks too shallow and the area below it too tall. Cheers Jim I was trying to put my finger on exactly why the tripple grey liveried example looks like the livery is applied incorrectly, with the middle grey band sitting too low below the horizontal line of the black window surround. Now I realise that the middle grey band isn't too low, but the black window surround is too high because of the window position. Its a real pity, its such a nice looking model otherwise but the TTG livery in particular really doesn't help to hide it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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