Jump to content

Dapol Class 56 - Photo Review


Recommended Posts

There's always the CJM model if you don't like the Dapol one:

http://www.cjmmodels.co.uk/V2-Products/CJM_Class_56.htm

 

Alternativly there's plenty of Farish ones knocking about. Or the old P&D Marsh kit. Or scratch build your own.

 

I'll be happy watching the Dapol large-logo grey one haulling 39 HAAs around my layout.... :senile:

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

 

Thats just crazy talk. Of course the Dapol one knocks the rest out of the water but thats not the point we are making. Are we meant to ignore any errors and say its perfect when it isnt. Ive said its a great loco and it is firmly where my money would go if I was modelling N but its just plain silly to say its not incorrect.

 

Cav

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Rivet counters will rivet count, modellers will model!

 

I wonder if Farish were to produce a new class if we'd have been as vocal about any minor negative points (as seen in this thread)...

Certainly their 60 did not appear to have much critisism when released, despite glaring livery errors!

 

I guess it's a catch 22 - Dapol seem keen to encourage customer interaction over a forum like this whereas Bach/farish do not (or do so to a much lesser extent).

 

Perhaps this is the reason we're so vocal about any minor imperfections, because this manufacturer opens up a dialogue so readily and will listen and accept/discuss our points. No bad thing in my eyes, but I can't help but think that the posts and posts of very minor negative points detract from the people who will have seen the images of the model and thought "wow!"

 

Dapol deserve for this model to do well, If you're in 2 minds about it I urge you to see one in the flesh first - it is a cracking model.

 

Paul A.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest jim s-w

Rivet counters will rivet count, modellers will model!

 

To be more correct - rivet counters will model, others will tip things from boxes ant think that's the same thing. :)

 

I wonder if Farish were to produce a new class if we'd have been as vocal about any minor negative points (as seen in this thread)...

Certainly their 60 did not appear to have much critisism when released, despite glaring livery errors!

Livery errors are a PITA, no doubt but modellers will have no problem correcting it. Shape errors are more work and sill require the repaint - I think you have minor and glaring the wrong way round

Perhaps this is the reason we're so vocal about any minor imperfections, because this manufacturer opens up a dialogue so readily and will listen and accept/discuss our points. No bad thing in my eyes, but I can't help but think that the posts and posts of very minor negative points detract from the people who will have seen the images of the model and thought "wow!"

Yes but 'wow' doesn't tell he manufacturer anything does it? They don't put things on here thinking 'I don't have a clue - let's hope it's ok' they have a pretty good idea themselves. A load of people saying it's great, while nice is utterly worthless

Dapol deserve for this model to do well, If you're in 2 minds about it I urge you to see one in the flesh first - it is a cracking model.

indeed but for those who want to replicate an actual 56 there's areas they might want to look at if they choose to

 

Cheers

 

Jim

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

Having looked at the pictures closely it's a excellent effort for N gauge. Yes there are few issues like the NRN aerials are missing (possible hard to replicate in N), the mesh should be square at the No1 end cooling grilles for a RomanIan build loco, and the load haul No 2 end electrical compartment cantrail grills are a post 1995 mod so applies to the EWS release, but strictly speaking not to the RF Coal version. If the cab windows where later one piece design used on the BREL build, it would be a good representation of 56031/032 which followed the Romanian style more closely than the rest of the first BREL Doncaster batch 031-059. The reason for this was because the cabs where aluminium, whereas the later batches from Doncaster had a more angular steel cab, and BREL Crewe had an slightly more angular design (116-135). The class 56 has many variations through the build and later in service changes. The Class 56 associations book is a good reference as is MLI and Model rail in 2003 (the issue escapes me).

 

Another livery is Colas Rail, plus there are rumours that 56091 could return to the Mainline in RF Coal livery!

 

But as has being pointed out the market is small and compromise is necessary to keep the price affordable. So I'll be looking forward to 56013 and 56018 arriving. So when will they arrive in the shops?

Edited by richierich
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll lay my cards on the table and say that like Cav and Jim I have some misgivings about the basic shape. No question that it is far better than the Farish effort, but then it should be!

 

The detail errors are frustrating - why not either get the detail right for Romanians or choose different numbers / liveries that the models would be accurate for?

 

Cheers, Mike

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think think the simple answer to that one would be tooling costs. I heard a slide for the moulding of the nose clips on the western would cost thousands, so at that rate you would need a small fortune to make slides for all the 56 variations. Which would only push up the price we pay.

To me, the Farish 56 didn't look like a 56, however, in my opinion, the Dapol 56 looks like a 56 and although it may take some work to accurately model the variations for your particular loco, it is an excellent starting point.

Personally i can't wait to get my mitts on them!

 

Cheers

 

Mark

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think think the simple answer to that one would be tooling costs. I heard a slide for the moulding of the nose clips on the western would cost thousands, so at that rate you would need a small fortune to make slides for all the 56 variations. Which would only push up the price we pay.

 

I think it is important to be clear on this - I perfectly accept that tooling for every variation becomes (prohibitively) expensive, but that does not excuse mis-matched details and liveries. The simple solution (which shuts the likes of me up!) is to produce liveries and numbers that actually match the detail variations that the tooling can accommodate!

 

As Cav pointed out - why do a compromised Romanian when an early Doncaster could have been more accurate for the details?

 

Dave has been commendably honest about making compromises, but IMHO with a bit of slightly different decision making and research much of the compromises could have been avoided.

 

Cheers, Mike

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Rivet counters will rivet count, modellers will model!

 

As a person who has actually been paid to count rivets I do wish that people would not use this term as a form of abuse.

I have been involved with construction work in many parts of the world and I can assure you that the exact number and location of rivets is very important. In some cases in seismic zones such as South America, The Balkans and various ex Soviet Republics it can indeed be critical.

I suppose the term nit picker might be better but on second thoughts that could well upset some nurses.

Long live constructive critisism.

Bernard

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Constructive critism is fine but all to often it's used as another term for a long list of nit-picking.

 

If the critism came with suggestions for fixing it then it'd be surely be more welcome.

 

 

Happy modelling.

 

Steven B.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that everyone who has 'nit picked' on this has given a constructive solution. My comments were certainly aimed that way suggesting choosing a number in the 031 to 055 range which better suited the current details. To me the modded roof grill detail was a strange choice as the class served for a much longer period in a much more varied life without them than with. If its a question of compromising detail for tool costs then surely choosing the most long lived detail would make more sense.

 

Cav

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

... If the critism came with suggestions for fixing it then it'd be surely be more welcome.

 

 

Not always appropriate though. Sometimes it's a case of 'point X is wrong, it's not easily fixable, but now you know it's there, you can make up your own mind whether it matters to you'.

 

Long live constructive critisism.

 

A caveat Bernard, if I might - constructive criticism and free, informed choice. As Jim sagely pointed out, just saying something is great isnt actually very informative.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

My take as a class 56 non-expert...

 

The class is a minefield with numerous noticeable differences between 4? fairly small batches of locos, then a multitude of in service modifications not applied consistently across the fleet, and several different liveries so by the end of their lives no two looked exactly the same.

This means that one body moulding is only ever going to accurately represent a small number of locos for a small time window so to be commercially viable there has to be some compromise in detail by producing only a limited range of major variations.

 

What appears to be agreed by all is that Dapol have produced a model which is a much better representation of a class 56 (any 56) than any previous Ready-to-Run Model in 2mm/N scale.

However from the comments and photographic evidence presented in this thread it would appear to be the case that Dapol have in some cases, not made the most appropriate choice of identity for the combinations of detail and livery (i.e. the chosen loco didn't wear that livery in that condition but others did...). Yes it may have been better if Dapol had chosen different identities, but if you are that bothered there is nothing irredeemable with an order from Fox Transfers and a few moments effort…

 

Paul

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest jim s-w

If the critism came with suggestions for fixing it then it'd be surely be more welcome

 

Bit hard to offer suggestions on a fix from just a piccie Steven

 

I would imagine Dave is smart enough to view comments as things to be double checked

 

Cheers

 

Jim

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • RMweb Gold

but if you are that bothered there is nothing irredeemable with an order from Fox Transfers and a few moments effort…

 

Assuming (the Royal) you have any intention of actually buying any ...

Link to post
Share on other sites

Surely we've done this particular argument on thread after thread after thread...

 

Indeed we have Dave, but where do you see the solution?

 

a) Should those who are satisfied with a given model just accept that others might want to discuss any areas of concern, and not seek to treat the latter as pariahs, or;

 

b ) should those who seek to improve standards give up on that aim, and just accept that their aspirations in the hobby will be shaped by others with lower expectations?

 

In my experience, it's almost always the first group who take exception to the second, not the other way round. There's a basic lack of tolerance here, and most of it is only flowing one way.

Edited by Pennine MC
  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

a) Should those who are satisfied with a given model just accept that others might want to discuss any areas of concern, and not seek to treat the latter as pariahs, or;

 

b ) should those who seek to improve standards give up on that aim, and just accept that their aspirations in the hobby will be shaped by others with lower expectations?

 

In my experience, it's almost always the first group who take exception to the second, not the other way round. There's a basic lack of tolerance here, and most of it is only flowing one way.

 

Yep, that's certainly true in my experience. I certainly find the 'rivet counter' and 'nit picker' jibes can get quite offensive and tiresome. And I guess there are times when there is some reaction to continually being complained about for trying to be honest about models. Unfortunately, that is when the first group start to feel justified and objectivity flies out the window.

 

G.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

Referring back to the OP, I am guessing few peeps have seen one in detail to date so we are going off the pics.

 

When they eventually get released some of the things noted may not be quite as obvious...but some things may be worse :O

 

In the meantime, I shall do some more homework on the prototype to see which of the mods highlighted would best suit my layout needs...

Edited by bcnPete
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Everyone,

 

The reality of economics governs the level of detail or specificity a manufacturer can offer. In theory it would be possible to deliver all the variations required and fix the percieved niggles or maybe even do a sound on board version. Perhaps those who make these demands should put together a business plan to deliver such models to the public, preferably at a price of less than a four figure sum per unit.

 

Eagerly awaiting my blue one.

 

Peter

Link to post
Share on other sites

Even Hornby hasn't got the 1:76 Class 56 spot on. But this Dapol 56, really looks like the real loco. The Farish model was dimensionally compromised is many aspects, and I for one couldn't even spend my hard earned cash on one. For me it's an important loco because it was so common in Yorkshire & the North East for 25 year period.

 

So I hope there is a steady release plan because most people's budget only stretches so far, and I think it will be a winner for Dapol.

 

One thing is now this model is almost in the shops, the Class 142 will have moved up the queue :) another important model for those of us in North England…

Edited by richierich
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest jim s-w

Or just write an article on how to improve it Peter

 

Your argument (despite probably being the first time you have used it) is so old and tired it should really be extint by now.

 

I for one don't look for detail differences in models, I can do that myself (it's called modelling BTW) but after all these years don't you personally think that things like basic shapes being right is something you should be able to expect? (I know it's a loaded question as anything other an a yes will make you look a bit silly - sorry!)

 

cheers

 

Jim

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest Moria

Yes, I know, I'm about to get controversial, so sue me :)

 

I have to agree that name calling is not cool, but then recting to being called a name is also not cool, so why do it, or why react to it?

 

But anyway.....

 

Every single commercial model ever released and a lot of commisioned hand built models all have detail errors on them. The issue at stake here seems to be.. is the error enough to affect each individual purchasing one. Many people when pointing out errors are a bit to fond of the plural.. ie, we should have better, or we shouldn't have to put up with this. I fail to see how anyone can say other than I because no-one knows how other people feel about it, and what is critical to you may be irrelevant to me or vice-versa.

 

I have no problem with people pointing out errors or issues once those are proven errors and issues, in fact I greatly admire the knowledge base that people have in this forum, and for some people, yes it is going to be important for them to know this..

 

I guess my issue is that in the great realm of toy trains, which any mass produced model is, do some of these endless threads discussing (yes I am about to get silly here) the fact that the rain strip on this particular loco should be shorter due to a rust issue in 1993 really help. A modeller is always going to look at a loco and photos to see if theres anything that offends them enough to correct it, but for the average modeller, are some of these comments making some people think twice about buying, because in runs of 300, turning away three purchasers is 1% of the base, and if that climbs, then we start getting models cancelled because the previous version didn't sell well enough.

 

Again, based on the fact that EVERY loco released by a manufacturer is wrong in some way, wouldn't it be more beneficial for those experts to start another thread such as.. "Making a class 56 represent a specific prototype" or "livery versions of 08's" rather than just saying.. wrong shape, or that narrow green line should be black.

 

I believe that Andy does a very balanced review of these items and is very fair, and if it is a major issue, then will state that, but beyond that, why not use the knowledge available to this forum to leave a legacy of positive information for not only current models but future ones as well rather than dissing a model which is fundamentally a base for a modeller to work on and potentially putting off purchasers who would be quite happy until they read that a blue line of 0.125mm is in the wrong place, which they probably can't even see :O .

 

 

Regards

 

Graham

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

..... rather than dissing a model which is fundamentally a base for a modeller to work on and potentially putting off purchasers who would be quite happy until they read that a blue line of 0.125mm is in the wrong place, which they probably can't even see .

 

 

IMO pointing out an error on a model is not 'dissing' itbut highlighting to those that want an accurate representation about what needs to be altered. And, as has already been pointed out, most comments so far are on the basis of only seeing photographs which means that the errors mentioned most obviously can be seen. Saying those who make such comments are 'dissing' new models and claiming that the issues are things they 'probably can't even see' is only perpetuating the playground 'name calling' attitudes and polarising the two groups that Pennine adroitly mentioned.

 

I do think we all need to step out of this negative mentality that is just spiralling down in to an argument.

 

G.

Edited by grahame
  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.