Andy York's article on creating Photographic Backscenes

[ChrisMRL]

Hi everyone

 

Andy has written a great article on creating photographic backscenes, complete with some downloadable examples:

 

https://www.model-railways-live.co.uk/Features/BRM_Scenery_Special_-_Andy_York_on_Photographic_Backscenes/

 

 

cheers Andy!

 

Chris

[roundhouse]

I am hoping to get shots this weekend for one of my older layouts weather permitting so very useful tips there.

 

However as I am travelling by train I wont be taking a tripod. I have managed to do panoramas without a tripod so not the end of the world. The manual sttting of the camera exposure is a must as Any states - I found that out the hard way!!

 

Ian

[Penlan]

Andy, the article mentions taking the resultant file to a printers for printing off, but I can't see it mentions a desirable file format.

Do you have any views on this, please.

 

I had to do some work for a local charity* recently and took the opportunity to have a chat with the print shop owner as to the preferred format,

He said he could do tweaking etc., easier with a .tiff file rather than a .jpeg, and I think this is also related to downsizing images and retaining detail

(this is not my area of expertise). It's obviously easy to save a file in .tiff format at the end of doctoring the image etc., if you prefer working in .jpeg.

 

*The item was a 6' x 2' collage of our village Christmas lights, for a local pub's 'Marie Curie' appeal.

 

EDIT - Ooops, opening one of the files, I see it's in .jpg format.....

[Andy Y]

EDIT - Ooops, opening one of the files, I see it's in .jpg format.....

 

Hi Sandy; that's really just for compression to load the files to the web to reduce the size to a practical amount. TIFF uses lossless compression so, as you say, may be preferable to send a file for printing. It all depends on the quality of the source image and the compression of the JPG of course and how the sizing of the JPG is set up compared to the print item required.

 

So; yes TIFF may be a safer option.

[RedgateModels]

Hi Andy, did you ever get anywhere with getting them printed out on sticky back plastic?

[coachmann]

One of the most useful and interesting articles I've read on RMweb for some time. When doing something similar at Diggle a few years ago I soon found the inks in Epson etc home printers were not archival and bleached out in next to no time on Photo Quality inkjet paper, although they do stand a better chance of lasting a few years on Premium glossy. As regards photographing a distant landscape, the biggest problem I came across was foreground trees geting in the way. I needed to climb a mountain in order to photograph the distant mountains! Then backdating to the 1950s was the next major obstacle, as cloning out electric street lamps and replacing them with gas lamps was quite challenging....

[Andy Y]

Hi Andy, did you ever get anywhere with getting them printed out on sticky back plastic?

 

It wasn't sticky-back plastic Ian, it's a material called foamex (or at least that's what my printer calls it) which is a medium-density plastic board in thicknesses going from 1mm upwards which is reasonably flexible. I've found it doesn't give particularly high definition but printing onto the same sort of material as the pop-up stand I use at events gives good definition but has less rigidity and therefor requires support.

[Andy Y]

One of the most useful and interesting articles I've read on RMweb for some time. When doing something similar at Diggle a few years ago I soon found the inks in Epson etc home printers were not archival and bleached out in next to no time on Photo Quality inkjet paper, although they do stand a better chance of lasting a few years on Premium glossy. As regards photographing a distant landscape, the biggest problem I came across was foreground trees geting in the way. I needed to climb a mountain in order to photograph the distant mountains! Then backdating to the 1950s was the next major obstacle, as cloning out electric street lamps and replacing them with gas lamps was quite challenging....

 

You've hit the nail on the head there with two problems Larry; ink fade (the backscene on Keyhaven has gradually turned blue over the years as the cyan inks faded away) which can only really be overcome by getting the pros to do the work if it's particularly important. As you say getting higher increases the chance of a clear view but it can start to affect perspective as not many railways run high up on a valley side overlooking a metropolis below so a bit of trial and error is needed in seeking usable viewpoints.

[roundhouse]

One of the most useful and interesting articles I've read on RMweb for some time. When doing something similar at Diggle a few years ago I soon found the inks in Epson etc home printers were not archival and bleached out in next to no time on Photo Quality inkjet paper, although they do stand a better chance of lasting a few years on Premium glossy. As regards photographing a distant landscape, the biggest problem I came across was foreground trees geting in the way. I needed to climb a mountain in order to photograph the distant mountains! Then backdating to the 1950s was the next major obstacle, as cloning out electric street lamps and replacing them with gas lamps was quite challenging....

 

When I did the backscene for Santa Barbara I couldn't use the view point form which the layout is viewed the surrounding area is low level and the palm trees get in the way. So on a trip there when we had a car and it wasnt overcast (not normally so but on two successive trips a year aprt it was very gloomy), we drove round to find a high vantage point of the mountains that form a magnificent back drop to the town. The view was photographed by parking (were we weren't meant to with the other half sitting in the car - upmarket neighbourhood so they dont like stangers parking there I believe) and me standing on a crash barrier with the camera.taking loads of shots.

These once edited together and the bottom cut down to give the right perspective when viewed on the layout did the job. The only thing missing is the close up background which will add at some point as separate stick on pieces.

 

The location I hope to visit at the weekend is Appledore in Norht Devon where I will be taking landscape shots from the quayside so shouldn't have any problems with buildings or trees being in the way as long as it doesn't rain or is not to dull.

 

With regards inks, the fading doesnt make to much difference to me as I prefer a toned down backscene (much as Andy mentions) and as the layouts are boxed away when not at shows or set up in a garage with no daylight, they dont fade in the light so much.

 

Ian

[RedgateModels]

we can chat at the Member's Day Andy, 3mm ply backscene boards added to Fourgig yesterday ......

[coachmann]

Linked to background is the contrast in how we see real things from around 6ft above ground level and model railway layouts from well above scale person height. In the case of my layout, Greenfield station is built on a ledge cut out of a hillside and I pondered on whether to model it from the hillside looking across Chew Valley. Taking my camera along to Greenfield platform I could see the distant mountains but not the valley floor, but my viewpoint when looking at the model would be the equivalent of standing above the station on the hillside with much of the valley floor visible below the station. I couldn't square the two unless I went into 2mm scale and actually modelled part of the valley floor so that it wouldn't matter whether I was looking at the layout sitting down or standing up.

[roundhouse]

Yes, perspective is a big problem and even more so when buidlnigs are just off the layout and on the backscene. Its easier to photograph them 6ft off the ground than higher up but really they need to suit the perspective from the viewing angle when at shows for us but then would look odd taking photos lower down. Thats partly why I havent added the buildings and underpass on Santa barbara yet, as cant make my mind up which way to do them so the perspective doenst look too far out wherever they are viewed from.

 

Ian

[cactustrain]

You may find it better to let the camera decide the exposure by varying the shutter speed, but keep the aperture and ISO settings the same so the DOF and noise remain constant. If using Photoshop, tick the box for seamless tones and colours.

 

Level your tripod using a spirirt level. Use a monopod rather than shoot handheld. If you can get access to one, use a panorama head, preferably one that allows rotation at the entrance pupil. To maximise DOF, focus at the hyperfocal distance.

 

To avoid fading, use a printer ink that uses pigments rather than dyes and use OEM ink for your printer.

[coachmann]

You may find it better to let the camera decide the exposure by varying the shutter speed, but keep the aperture and ISO settings the same so the DOF and noise remain constant. If using Photoshop, tick the box for seamless tones and colours.

 

Andy Y gave his reasons for setting manual exposure........ It is to get the same exposure on all the shots to be stitched together. DOF? Forget it..... A backscene is all-but at infinity. Should be no problems on digital.

[roundhouse]

I do the exposure settings on manual but I Do about three separate sequences each one at slightly different exposures just in case the first one is under or over exposed to my liking. That's the beauty of digital in that you can take as many a you like then delete the you don't want at a later stage......No wasted film.

 

If onlyI had initial media back in the eighties!

 

Ian

[coachmann]

If onlyI had initial media back in the eighties!

 

 

Or even the 1950s.....Plus the foresight to shoot everything that future generations will complain nobody photographed!

[roundhouse]

Or even the 1950s.....Plus the foresight to shoot everything that future generations will complain nobody photographed!

 

Very true but I wasnt around then!

[gwrrob]

I used Photojenic [Jenny Drake] backgrounds when I first started my layout.Not cheap and not available anymore.A good job as they are crap and don't last at all.

[cactustrain]

Quote

 

You may find it better to let the camera decide the exposure by varying the shutter speed, but keep the aperture and ISO settings the same so the DOF and noise remain constant. If using Photoshop, tick the box for seamless tones and colours.

 

Andy Y gave his reasons for setting manual exposure........ It is to get the same exposure on all the shots to be stitched together. DOF? Forget it..... A backscene is all-but at infinity. Should be no problems on digital.

 

 

Andy's article is excellent and I am not disagreeing with anything that he says. To back up what I said, here are some quotes from the experts at C'T Photography magazine:

 

"It is often recommended that you shoot every photo in a panarama sequence using the same manually selected settings, but this may not be the best method to use if the lighting in your scene changes while you are shooting" (C'T Photography, issue 4, 2011, page 83)

 

"Most photographers want their panoramas to be in sharp focus all the way from the foregraound to infinity. This is easier to achieve if you set your lens to focus at the hyperfocal distance" (C'T Photography, issue 4, 2011, page 83)

[coachmann]

I assumed the person doing the shoot would have the common sense to carry it out in constant lighting seeing as he would later be stitching his shots together. .

[roundhouse]

If you want broken clouds then this could be an issue.

 

However, if you are not quick enough and the light does change then you can just start over again.

 

Ian

[cactustrain]

I assumed the person doing the shoot would have the common sense to carry it out in constant lighting seeing as he would later be stitching his shots together. .

 

Natural lighting isn't constant, and the problem is exacerbated when you are rotating to take your shots. (Genesis chapter 1, verse 3)

[Andy Y]

(Genesis chapter 1, verse 3)

 

He obviously wasn't a photographer otherwise we wouldn't have had 'bad light'.

 

Yes, light variability across a scene could be a curse or it could add interest; in the parallel BCB backscene topic - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/58014-planning-the-backscene-a-view-of-the-bc/ - it's evident the light is substantially different to the left from the right. Although I could lighten the l/h side to balance the scene I think it actually adds something and works with the local saying of "It's black over Bill's mom's" (no-one knows who Bill's mother really is/was and where she lived but she seems to have a lot of bad luck with the weather).