Victory Road

[Metr0Land]

WCML upgrade approved

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

I missed out one very significant traffic on the system. There will be trains to move the slave labour around. Most likely these will be new stock in order that the requisite security is built in, based on something ultra utilitarian like a GUV. The layout rather like a horsebox, a large windowless section with one strong door either side for the walking freight, and a small windowed compartment one end for the armed guards.

[37255]

Don't forget window bars!

[scots region]

I missed out one very significant traffic on the system. There will be trains to move the slave labour around. Most likely these will be new stock in order that the requisite security is built in, based on something ultra utilitarian like a GUV. The layout rather like a horsebox, a large windowless section with one strong door either side for the walking freight, and a small windowed compartment one end for the armed guards.

 

Thats a good idea.

 

On another note, one that will probably make Orwell fans hate me, what do you think of "Victory Road 1985" where a Prole rebellion has overthrown Big Brother and "Britain" has declared independence from Oceania. Everything remains obstensively the same except some one has decided to clean up the locomotives, crossing out the INGSOC logos in the proccess, and the slave labour stock has been abandoned and burned as well as other things.

[Ozexpatriate]

I still think it's a terrific idea.

 

I remember we discussed it in the Unusual Layout Themes thread.

 

From a motive power standpoint, I still think the Bulleid Leader is the perfect choice.

 

Far easier to source and just as suitable is the Bulleid Q1 - the austerity look is what you want for INGSOC.

[Ozexpatriate]

Very much the same thought; the NLR post WWII was very much a real vision of what Orwell wrote in his dystopia.

 

The real challenge would be the working propaganda telescreens to enable the passengers to participate in the 'hates' and to get the latest Minitrue information on Big Brother's triumphs.

I agree, working telescreens are essential. Any number of small video-streaming devices would be suitable. Pick up a 1st generation iPod touch on eBay. Suitable movie clips from 1984 could be used. This could be inset into a retaining wall, if the design is a below-street level London station.

 

You have to think yourself into Ingsoc principles. Anything that shows any flair or individuality is right out. So Gresley, Stanier, Maunsell and Bulleid designs will have been scrapped just as fast as possible.

 

The Riddles WD 2-8-0 will have been rehabiliated however in a classic piece of doublethink, as it is clearly the cheapest traction for the build cost, and by 1984, this and the WD 0-6-0 likely constitute 95% of the traction running the system, as they are built to replace all the earlier double plus ungood traction.

 

Quite possibly Bulleid's extremely high capacity Double Deck design will have become the basis of the prole grade coaching stock, maximum capacity, minimal comfort. (You guessed, another of Big Brother's marvellous innovations.)

Ingsoc principles are key, but by that reasoning, don't necessarily choose a locomotive design that was truly effective.

 

Anything that looks 'austerity' is the key. No frills heavily weathered and workaday like the Bullied Q1 or an Ivatt 4MT. Better yet if it's impractical - which is why my favourite choice is the Bullied Leader - it's perfect. The only 'clean' parts would be an INGSOC logo and the running number.

 

For the inner party train I'd stick with Bulleid and the London theme. My preference would be an as-built Merchant Navy, or easier to source an as-built West Country (armoured air-smoothed casing). I'd add flags to the train mounted on the front of the smoke deflectors. For some inspiration for inner-party trains, I'd go with Strelnikov's train from Dr. Zhivago or the command train from the 1995 version of Richard III (with Ian McKellan).

 

I like the idea of the Bullied double deck stock - but for party members, not proles. For this theme however, (and easier sourcing) beat up Mk1s will do the job well. It's all a matter of the right weathering. Dirty 3rd class stock with broken windows for the proles. Slightly less shabby 1st class stock (with cleaned areas around logos) for the party members.

 

There will be trains to move the slave labour around. Most likely these will be new stock in order that the requisite security is built in, based on something ultra utilitarian like a GUV.

 

I like the GUV for the slaves, or you could go with modified Siphon G or Mk1 BGs. These work for proles too.

[Ozexpatriate]

How big would the screens be? Maybe an old mobile showing repeated shuffle video? or a cheap android tablet?

For mini display screens I wonder whether one of those digital photo keyrings might have some mileage?

 

I can find a 1.5" one here for under a tenner - http://www.clickshop...e-keyring/pink/ and you just add the pictures and it'll play them in "slideshow" mode once loaded. Turn it round 90 degrees and make sure all your pictures are landscape-in-portrait (ie rotated 90 degrees before uploading) might work?

These are both good ideas. Most important is the ability to display Goldstein for the two minute hate.

 

Video would be good for using movie clips, and a refurbished mobile or iPod Touch seems optimum. An Android tablet might be too big in 4mm and I think would be expensive. (The really big telescreens would only be in the public squares.)

 

The cheaper slideshow viewer works too. Simply alternating slogans like WAR IS PEACE, FREEDOM IS SLAVERY, and IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH interspersed with WE ARE AT WAR WITH EASTASIA/EURASIA*, WE HAVE ALWAYS BEEN AT WAR WITH EASTASIA would work well.

 

* take your pick - or change it up for the eagle-eyed.

 

VICTORY GIN IS DOUBLE-PLUS GOOD!

[Ozexpatriate]

Don't forget window bars!

And broken windows.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

...Ingsoc principles are key, but by that reasoning, don't necessarily choose a locomotive design that was truly effective (Riddles WD 2-8-0)

 

Anything that looks 'austerity' is the key. No frills heavily weathered and workaday like the Bullied Q1 or an Ivatt 4MT. Better yet if it's impractical - which is why my favourite choice is the Bullied Leader - it's perfect...

I see the reasoning, but was influenced in my choice by the Soviet build of 12,000 0-10-0 (class 'E') also to a design preceding their revolution. A slow austerity freight engine is the required device, and nothing meets that description better than a WD 2-8-0. The Q1 and Ivatt 4MT are altogether much too good, both capable of speeds well into the 70s; and as for the Leader - while the name is good - there is every chance that some inspired prole engineers get it sorted and suddenly there's a really potent machine available. Those boilers by Bulleid could raise steam like fury fed with little better than hedge clippings, and the engine section doesn't look far from success. On these grounds best to stick to trusty and rusty old 'Bed Iron' which is a proven winner for the clunking and clanking slow speed travel required. But that's my version of Airstrip One, there's room for plenty of equally grim alternatives. Standardise on a Midland 2F 0-6-0 anyone? Or the Beyer-Garratt? Renamed as Big Brother-Goldstein type naturally...

[Ozexpatriate]

Ok people, ideas for cameos, lets have em.

If you did a below-street level station, a street behind the station retaining wall and faced by a row of houses could have

• miniluv throught police dragging someone out of a door
  
• prole children playing in a alley
  
• the antiques shop
  
• perhaps a backdrop that contains ministry buildings
  

[JZ]

I missed out one very significant traffic on the system. There will be trains to move the slave labour around. Most likely these will be new stock in order that the requisite security is built in, based on something ultra utilitarian like a GUV. The layout rather like a horsebox, a large windowless section with one strong door either side for the walking freight, and a small windowed compartment one end for the armed guards.

 

I would go for cattle wagons, with the sides boarded up to leave just a small slot for air, pretty much how the Soviets and Nazis transported people to the Gulags and concentration camps. Every five wagons or so, put in a conflat or similar with a machine gun crew.

It is implied in the book, that Oceana formed in the early 1950s, though this of course may be propaganda. For this reason I would avoid Mk1 stock, as it is unlikely to have been built at a time of turmoil. The best of the pre 47 carriages would be kept in limited numbers for inner party use as would a few top link loco's. Everything else would be flogged until it wore out, with excess stock being mothballed until needed. PW maintenance would be for the most part be poor, maybe apart from a few mainlines, GW, ECML, WCML and a line to Southampton/Portsmouth, which would be for Inner party member's trains only, thus seeing very little use. And this would possibly lined with high fences to keep prying eyes out. Trains for Outer party members and proles would be short to encourage overcrowding and only do short journeys, requiring passenger to change often and to go from A to B, you could only travel via XYZ and get the neccesary stamp to progress. All this to discourage travel. Oh, and no toilet on the train.

 

I hope someone can take this further and built a layout.

[37255]

On the subject of the Leader, I was led to believe the biggest issue was the fireman toasting away in the middle of the loco? Would this bother the powers that be?

[Ozexpatriate]

On the subject of the Leader, I was led to believe the biggest issue was the fireman toasting away in the middle of the loco? Would this bother the powers that be?

That's exactly why it's my choice. Any reports of issues with the Leader go straight down the memory hole. Plus it looks 'modern' but isn't.

 

"The Leader is a triumph of INGSOC engineering." etc.

[souwest]

Hi,

 

An interesting thought. In Guy Waters The Leader, which assumes Oswald Moseley as leader of a fascist Uk the hero travels from Carlisle to Euston behind a black streamlined Coronation class, names after Moseley. Gloss black with sliver lining - it would look - ...interesting.

 

Souwest

[TT3]

If you did a below-street level station, a street behind the station retaining wall and faced by a row of houses could have

• miniluv throught police dragging someone out of a door
  
• prole children playing in a alley
  
• the antiques shop
  
• perhaps a backdrop that contains ministry buildings
  

 

The backdrop would be they key thing for this layout that would set it off perfectly. Dark/grey with some notable pre war lanmarks just identifable through the haze. The dominant features would be the pryamid ministry buildings towering above everything else with party slogans just visible on the faces. The rest of the city is neglected, bomb damaged slums that were never rebuilt after the war.

 

Painting of figures would be pretty easy but very significant. Party members in the standard overalls, junion anti sex league with the notable red sash, and proles with nodescript clothes. Maybe someone being arrested by the thought police.....

 

Miniature telescreens would work great repeating the party slogan 'Our new, happy life' with Big brothers orders and the 2 mins hate.

 

The finished image of the general atmosphere I get from a 1984 theme is not unlike that in Terry Guilliam's 'Brazil', bleak, non working and rundown

[PaternosterRow]

What a brilliant idea. Just found this blog and am brimming with enthusiasm. Build it quick before I seriously start thinking about it! Orwell was a genius wasn't he?

 

Regards

 

Mike

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

If you want some alternative territory, then Aldous Huxley's 'Brave New World' offers an even more sinister take on a possible British Dystopia, by Ford!

[Jongudmund]

Just a note on this - a thought police 'cameo' would be very unlikely.

 

You never see the thought police until they come for you.

 

I love 1984. One of my favourite books.

[scots region]

Does anyone know were I could source a trackplan for Wigan wallgate?

[sem34090]

Six years for a thread revival... That's got to be pushing for a record?!

 

I am currently reading the novel again, after a lapse of two years, as a student and have (naturally!) been captivated by the idea of a layout. I have seen Paternoster Row's fantastically realised model of Victory Road and have read this thread before. I find the question of motive power an interesting one, but I was also wondering about how the railways themselves would look - which lines would simply have not been operated and eventually pulled up to supply steel to the supposed 'war effort'? As one got further away from London would the railways look increasingly like those we knew of the late-1940s. Might, say, Barnstaple Junction simply resemble a late 1940s Southern station but with more litter and much more decrepitude and dirt? I imagine that, contrary to all pre-revolution stock being stamped out it would instead all be employed until it could simply no longer function - Locos in 1968 condition but multiplied by at least ten. Around London, and other major cities, perhaps the situation may have been more uniform - Pre-revolution machines flung away from centres of population where the likes of Winston may connect them somehow with the past and replaced by ex-WD and ex-USATC machines. I can't imagine any INGSOC investment in the railways - travel is hardly to be encouraged, is it?

 

I can't imagine the SR electric network lasting. The very idea of commuting seems to be non-existent in 1984, so why would there be a large network of expensive electric passenger lines radiating out from London? I can only really see the electrified lines to Brighton and Portsmouth being retained for the purpose of running trains for Inner-Party members using the former Brighton Belle stock. I'm sort of imagining Brighton, or possibly Eastbourne or Worthing (Or all of them?) being exclusive inner-party resorts, so of course they would be served by the all-former-pullman electric service. But the rest no longer has any real purpose. I can't imagine Waterloo seeing much use as a result, other than for occasional troop and military workings to and from Southampton and points West to Portland. Paddington is clearly still in use, so one can assume that the lines to Bristol and probably to Plymouth and Falmouth are retained.

 

On the subject of Electrics, the system I imagine would be retained would possibly be the NER Overhead Electric system on the Durham coalfield as that supports heavy industry.

 

If we take Victory Station, which some Proles strangely mis-pronounce as 'Victoria' Station, in London, I can see some trains to Margate sat in the far corner of the station...

"The train was full of proles, in holiday mood because of the summery weather. The wooden-seated carriage in which he travelled was filled to overflowing by a single enormous family, ranging from a toothless great-grandmother to a month-old baby, going out to spend an afternoon with ‘in-laws’ in the country, and, as they freely explained to Winston, to get hold of a little blackmarket butter."

 

I suppose this suggests that there was still a number of proles taking holidays in the West Country, given the train left Paddington.

[scots region]

Hello Sem34090, I have to admit that it has been some time since I've given Victory Road much thought, it is however a concept worth exploring. Part of the problem is that 1984 is such an extreme version of totalitarianism that there really isn't any real world equivalent, the closest would be North Korea, but event in that case some attempts at modernisation have been undertaken. I have seen some suggestions that Oceania is perhaps deliberately too unrealistic, that it is just Britain, but that too theoretical. As for what the layout should look like, as others have said Brutalism to the extreme and a general atmosphere of decay. You could look to actual designs from the Stalinist period of the Soviet Union for inspiration, plus well the sky the limit imagination wise, nuclear trains, ballistic missile trains. 

 

ScR.    

[HonestTom]

North Korea was what sprung to mind for me too.

 

The novel mentions Underground trains, for which I would envision superannuated Standard stock or 1938 stock.

 

As for the main line, I agree with the notion that the bulk of the work would be done by elderly Austerity and ROD 2-8-0s. As with North Korea, there are probably a few S160s. Carriage stock would be ex-Big Four, albeit far less luxurious. Out in the country, away from the cities, they probably still use very antiquated steamers and carriages. In general, development stops around the early 1950s (although of course, Big Brother advertises these 2-8-0s as highly modern and efficient designs that haven't needed improving in the ten years since they've been running yes they are only ten years old are you calling Big Brother a liar?).

 

However, they might well have some more modern locomotives, and this is where you could have some fun. I could definitely imagine some "futuristic" diesels hauling "modern" rolling stock. The trains are invariably express trains that don't stop at this station, but prove that Big Brother is investing in improvements to the rail network. Maybe something like detailed Triang Transcontinental stock could fit the bill. You'd also get fast freights of diesel-hauled flat wagons with sheeted loads that definitely contain high-tech military hardware and are definitely not wooden shapes covered by tarpaulins to create the illusion of a booming economy.

 

In North Korea, they advertise that their network is the best in the world and is fully electrified, even though anyone can see that the DPRK can't even keep their capital city lit. By the same token, perhaps you could have some catenery masts "being erected" with a sign advertising the fact that Big Brother's electrification programme is nearly complete. The masts are rusting and the sign is dirty.