Much Murkle - back on the road

[Jules]

Thank you both for the info - will have to keep my eyes peeled on the 'junk' stands for a battered yellow box!

[Kev_Lewis]

Thank you both for the info - will have to keep my eyes peeled on the 'junk' stands for a battered yellow box!

 

Not just yellow boxes:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GWR-open-C-tube-Wagon-kit-00-EM-P4-Ratio-kit-/251409752391?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item3a89306147&nma=true&si=K%252BtkmthnTPbMvuaGzEww2S8724w%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

That one went for a reasonable price too.

[john flann]

As might be expected from you Nick, a clever piece of workmanship.

 

What colour will you paint the pipes, are they cast iron or earthernware?

 

And what length, cast iron pipes-for water mains-were generally longer and the earthernware for sewers or drains shorter.

 

Spun concrete was also used.

 

Plastic pipes (white) would be out of your period.

 

But I'm sure you've already thought about this.

[nickwood]

As might be expected from you Nick, a clever piece of workmanship.

 

What colour will you paint the pipes, are they cast iron or earthernware?

 

And what length, cast iron pipes-for water mains-were generally longer and the earthernware for sewers or drains shorter.

 

Spun concrete was also used.

 

Plastic pipes (white) would be out of your period.

 

But I'm sure you've already thought about this.

 

Thanks John

 

The painting is a bit of a dilema I must admit. It is intended that they are cast iron so I think black or red oxide would be most appropriate as a factory finish. I can imagine that both colours would be used or possibly not protected at all but I'm open to any advice as I'm not really sure which is most likely.

[john flann]

Nick, I don't think they were painted, as I recall the cast iron ones appeared a blackish/grey. That I assumed was as cast.

[nickwood]

Nick, I don't think they were painted, as I recall the cast iron ones appeared a blackish/grey. That I assumed was as cast.

 

Thanks John, Blackish grey it will be then. No results can be posted until late in the week though as I'm away at a conference until Thursday.

[Chubber]

Hullo!

 

Back in the dim and distant past I was involved in some work involving the replacement of drains in a farm in Devon, the replacements being genuine cast iron, and I recall they were a deep orange red rust colour. They arrived strapped down in a triangle shaped pile on a flat bed lorry, stacked alternately fat end to thin end. They were jointed using some packing and poured lead! It was part of a restoration job partly sponsored by the County Council.

 

[For what it's worth...]

 

Doug

[nickwood]

Hullo!

 

Back in the dim and distant past I was involved in some work involving the replacement of drains in a farm in Devon, the replacements being genuine cast iron, and I recall they were a deep orange red rust colour. They arrived strapped down in a triangle shaped pile on a flat bed lorry, stacked alternately fat end to thin end. They were jointed using some packing and poured lead! It was part of a restoration job partly sponsored by the County Council.

 

[For what it's worth...]

 

Doug

 

That's worth an awful lot Doug, Many thanks.

[nickwood]

I've been away at a conference since Monday and just got home. I did take the pipes with me and managed to paint them in between sessions ending and the evening bar / dinner / bar routine.

The finish is to represent slight surface rusting on cast iron.

 

 

A close up of the stack which will be placed in the goods yard.

 

 

and a close up of the wagon load

 

[john flann]

OK, Nick but they look too 'copperry' and burnished to me. I still stick to my re-collection they were darkish grey/black.

 

Why should they need to be painted, they are going to be buried deep down and there is no need of painting either the inside or exterior, what purpose would it serve? 

[artizen]

Two tiny little niggles from me. (Although I really like what you have done.)

 

(1) Would the pipes be that long? Only a crane could lift each one at that length.

(2) Wouldn't the paint be a protective coating to resist rust from wet earth when buried? Or does cast iron resist rust really well?

[class"66"]

Some very nice modeling here!! wil follow this now..

 

Cheers neil..

[john flann]

and a PS, to avoid damage en route, the pipes would be laid in a cradle and packed with straw.

 

Cast iron suffers little once laid, I think exterior paint of whatever nature would not make much difference. These are 100 year pipes, but they are susceptible to fracture.

 

The pipes came in various lengths and diameters, and as pointed out they needed handling and the equipment then available to lift, convey and lay them in every day use was smaller than today.

[nickwood]

One of the difficulties of modelling things from days gone by is it is very difficult to find colour photos particularly of mundane objects like drainage pipes. Even if you could it is unlikely that the colour rendition would be correct. We all have different opinions on how things may have looked and it is useful to be able to get views from those who have some real life experience. Notwithstanding that the lighting conditions and macro shots of my photos do not show the colouration of the pipes in the same way that you would view it from normal distances. They are much darker than the photos suggest and the silvery looking paint is dry brushed onto black and is actually gun metal which is a dark steel finish. I have taken note of the opinions of John and Doug and tried to take both into account although they were slightly conflicting. The pipes now look right to my eyes and will have to do.

 

I searched long and hard for some suitable plastic piping and this was all that I could find that would do the job. Yes they are probably too long for the purpose that I have suggested that they would be used for but as "tube" wagons were built at that length then surely they would have carried tubes or pipes to the same length or why would the railway have built them??   They might also be too large in diameter although main sewer pipes can be quite large. Agreed cast iron is very heavy and I would have thought that a crane might well have to be used in such circumstances. They are laid in a timber cradle which can be seen, those in the wagon are the same although this can't be seen.

 

I take your point John about the straw packing and I did consider this but haven't had the time so far to come up with a satisfactory way of reproducing it on a removeable load.

[john flann]

Thanks Nick, I quite understand, please see the PM I sent you.

[mjcampbell]

I take your point John about the straw packing and I did consider this but haven't had the time so far to come up with a satisfactory way of reproducing it on a removeable load.

 

I found long, yellow, static grass fibres a passable representation of straw. This is 7mm scale, but I'm sure it would work fine for 4mm with medium fibres.

 

 

On the other hand I wonder if straw would be used in an open wagon for a load like this, it would blow away and/or get wet so wouldn't be very effective. I'd have thought simple wooden slats and wedges would have done the job, perhaps with rope too. 

[Chubber]

Further to my last, the pipes I referred to were delivered, as I said, in a triangular stack, on a long pallet sepated by shaped wooden spacers. I think there were about 6 on the bottom layer going up to 3 or 4 across. No straw as I recall but as a child I do remember glazed sanitary ware pipes padded with straw, in a deep glossy brown. My stepfather was in the Royal Engineers and latterly a Clerk of Works so I used to see a deal of building and ground works.

 

I think the colour is good, those remaining in the ground were black, with a complete absence of paint.

 

Doug

[Popeye]

Not just yellow boxes:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GWR-open-C-tube-Wagon-kit-00-EM-P4-Ratio-kit-/251409752391?pt=UK_Trains_Railway_Models&hash=item3a89306147&nma=true&si=K%252BtkmthnTPbMvuaGzEww2S8724w%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

 

That one went for a reasonable price too.

 

Just catching up with the thread and followed the ebay link for Ratio tube wagon; theres one here being sold now for those who require it 

 

Andy

[Black Sheep]

But how to make the collar?  You could do it by just cutting a small length of the larger pipe and slipping it over the end, but that is too easy and not the Woody way. If you look at a pipe collar it tapers towards the end but how to replicate that ?

 

This is how

 

MM drain pipes 004 small.jpg

Just as I was thinking "yes, it does need to taper, how would I do it?" I scrolled down and was met with genius!

 

Well done sir for the ingenuity of your solution and for making me laugh first thing in the morning

[nickwood]

Thanks to you all for the suggestions, likes and comments it is appreciated.

 

Much Murkle will be at the Newbury MRC exhibition this coming Saturday. Please say hello if you are visiting.

[nickwood]

Much Murkle had a successful outing at Newbury. We had a few problems with cassettes due to the very warm school hall causing some expansion in the connectors but other than that nothing else of any consequence.

 

The first couple of photos were taken early morning before the doors opened to the public. The sun was streaming in making the hall even hotter for a while, hence the harsh light.  It wasn't long though before the clouds became greyer and the rain deluge started again (when is it ever going to stop raining?)

 

Mike and Andrew, two of my operating team doing early morning running tests

 

 

 

Once the doors opened this level of interest lasted well into the day. All very serious stuff!!!

 

 

 

An unusual visitor to the branch. Coming from the North East, it must have got seriously lost to be seen in Herefordshire.

 

 

It belongs to one of the team and I insisted that if it was run it had to use the cattle dock to dispense it's occupants

 

[artizen]

All the punters look so serious! Is it the weather or the sheer number of rivets to be counted?

[john flann]

Always looks good, Nick and it appears the customers were taking a serious interest. Discerning obviously. Glad you had a good exhibition-and I hope you enjoyed it.

[nickwood]

Always looks good, Nick and it appears the customers were taking a serious interest. Discerning obviously. Glad you had a good exhibition-and I hope you enjoyed it.

 

Thanks John

 

I did enjoy it. It was good to have a team of guys experienced at running exhibition layouts to take over much of the operating leaving me to attend to front of house and chat to those who showed an interest in Much Murkle

[nickwood]

Much Murkle will be at the Sutton Coldfield exhibition on the 26th & 27th April.


Details of the event can be found http://www.ukmodelshops.co.uk/ click on events and scroll down the list.

 

Should be worth a visit and please say hello if you do.

Edited April 6, 2014 by nickwood