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I think I would have complained to Shapeways about this. There shouldn't be that amount of banding on the vertical faces.

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I think I would have complained to Shapeways about this. There shouldn't be that amount of banding on the vertical faces.

 

It did seem a bit excessive but I've no direct experience of this print process so I assumed it was the norm. A complaint will be made.

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I think I would have complained to Shapeways about this. There shouldn't be that amount of banding on the vertical faces.

 

I'm still watching with interest Andy, and I think that's a helpful comment given your expereience in these matters Bill - incidentally I see that you've re-appeared on the other forum, although you've not opened the PM I left for you on there.

Edited by gr.king
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So as per Bill's suggestion a complaint was made yesterday which was responded to pretty much immediately and investigated. They've now decided that they can do better and have arranged a reprint. I think this is excellent customer service although their quality control procedures when models have been printed obviously need improving.

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As a complete neophyte in these matters (but very interested as a modeller potentially using the products of others' CAD-based efforts) , I'm in the midst of tackling one of Bill Bedford's O4/5 boiler/cab units. In the end I shall be pleased with the results, but I must say that my working conclusions are very much along the lines of the "sprued-kit" approach which AJ427 now proposes to try. There seems to me little benefit to be derived from over-complication of the print by inclusion of complex projections such as handrails, ejector pipes, smokebox "darts", which are instinct with the possibility of confusing the 3D printer, and in any case many such objects can readily be fabricated or sourced elsewhere.

 

As regards the UK standard gauge, my interest is focussed on ECML/Scotland and Lothians branches, so my use for the N1 (or the O4 /5 for that matter) is decidedly limited. Bill's O4/5 was the only available 3D printed object of which I was aware remotely in my field of interest, so I was keen to give it a whirl to see what resulted. In the event, it has been well worth the effort, leaving me with a fairly clear picture of the strengths and weaknesses to bear in mind. I am very grateful to Bill for making his somewhat experimental product available. I'm a "possible" rather than a "definite" for your N1 for similar reasons.

 

If anyone was moved to tackle some NB prototypes on your proposed lines (an Atlantic?!; a C15?; a J35 or37?, leaving aside the question of chassis), I'd be right at the head of the queue. I suspect they might have a reasonable "north of the Border" following. Calling all motivated CAD experts.....

 

auldreekie

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Like others I've always liked the N1 - much preferred, in fact, to its portly successor, the N2. I've liked it since I saw frank Dyer's version in OO in MRC for October 1962, a magazine - much worn - which I still have.

If, AJ427, your super model will be offered for sale, I'd certainly like to be included as a buyer. I have a couple of N2 chassis bought for the purpose, but only got as far as the footplate, lazy man that I am.

CliffH

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As a complete neophyte in these matters (but very interested as a modeller potentially using the products of others' CAD-based efforts) , I'm in the midst of tackling one of Bill Bedford's O4/5 boiler/cab units. In the end I shall be pleased with the results, but I must say that my working conclusions are very much along the lines of the "sprued-kit" approach which AJ427 now proposes to try. There seems to me little benefit to be derived from over-complication of the print by inclusion of complex projections such as handrails, ejector pipes, smokebox "darts", which are instinct with the possibility of confusing the 3D printer, and in any case many such objects can readily be fabricated or sourced elsewhere.

 

There is no chance of 'confusing' the printer. Using these printers you get complexity for free, meaning that you are not limited by, for instance the need to suppress undercuts in order to be able to use a 2 part mould. The problems on the O4/5 almost all relate to the material it is made from. It is brittle, shows differential shrinkage, e.g. this is the cause of the wonky boiler handrails and ejector pipes, and has a wax component that can make painting difficult. All these problems can be overcome by using different materials on other machines, but alternative have other problems that relate to costs, build sizes and resolutions.

 

This is why I have decided that while this particular process is not really suitable final products, it does simplify pattern making and so all future loco parts are likely to be primally resin castings.

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Hello everyone,

 

I'm happy to report that the reprinted model has arrived back from Shapeways and all is well. The detail is nice and crisp and the sides and boiler are well defined with no sign of the banding that was on the earlier test.

 

Andy Y has given permission for this and I am therefore now able to make the saturated boiler version available to purchase on Shapeways. There will initially be two versions available to purchase based on no 9554/69434 modelled in the BR era and in the LNER era. The LNER version differs only in that the smokebox has no number plate and has a lower lamp bracket, it has no condenser vent pipes and it has builder's plates on the bunker sides rather than the back. Note that the BR version will have a blank number plate to allow folks to put their own on. Buffers come on a seperate sprue built inside the bunker so that you can use them as supplied or can easily replace them with brass ones (Alan Gibson ones should fit).

 

The models can be purchased here:

http://www.shapeways.../shops/AJModels

 

For those not familiar with Shapeways items are printed to order with lead times usually around 2 weeks. Simply add the items to your basket (along with any other items you might want from any of the other RMWEB designers who also sell on Shapeways) and you can pay with paypal or a bank transfer. At some point soon I'll also come up with a set of instructions based on the one I did in my blog.

 

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Next I will be developing the superheated version and a condensed version. I may do the condenser equipment as an add-on sprue rather than complete models. I'd appreciate feedback on this.

 

Regards

Andrew

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How much cleaning up is required Andrew as it looks quite ruff, but very good?

 

Pete

Edited by Pete Harvey

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How much cleaning up is required Andrew as it looks quite ruff, but very good?

 

Pete

 

Hi Pete, I suspect there shouldn't be too much effort required - probably just an undercoat then a going over with wet n dry, followed by another undercoat. There was quite a lot of wax on the reprinted model when it arrived (which smells curiously of almonds) which is easily removed with luke warm soapy water and an old toothbrush. The model is much smoother than my previous prototypes which I'd managed to get to a smoothish state with admittedly quite a bit of work with a flat scraper and some wet n dry. My first primegray prototype was a lower resolution and also needed some filler but that will not be necessary with this FUD model. With this type of technology there will always be a few areas that are hard to get to or have detail that you don't want to disturb too much though. I think the semi-transparent nature of the material makes it look rougher than it is as you can see both surfaces at once.

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Thanks for the reply Andrew, I think that you are right about the transparent material looking rougher than it actually is you have achieved some nice 3D modelling there with some difficult shapes, it's just a pity that the quality of the pints do not match the quality of the 3D model yet.

 

Very nice I hope that it dose well.

 

Pete

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It would appear that I've tuned back in to this topic, after a bit of a break, on just the right day!

 

Interesting to hear Bill's comments about switching to resin for the production versions of further loco parts.

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Hello Andrew,

Those prints look top notch! good luck with the future variants,

you've certainly shown what's possible with FUD, like the shapeways shop too.

Regards,

Wild Boar Fell

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Fantastic finishing work there! For sanding work on my FUD models I used a piece of rubber cut to size to make a flexible sanding block (old silicone moulds but I would think an eraser would work too!) working against the print grain as much as possible, as you said. You can cut these quite small (my smallest is about 2mm wide!) to get them to fit awkward areas such as the splashers and they are great for getting even pressure over round shapes like boilers.. Also old jewelers screwdrivers are useful to get into those hard to reach nooks and crannies, I now tend to leave the glass fiber brush to working on footsteps and such like - chimneys tend to be done carefully with wire wool.

 

I'm looking forward to seeing this one finished now as I've long believed that the Hornby (Airfix/Dapol) N2 was an ideal candidate for this conversion!

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Hi Andy,

 

I'm just writing to inquire what versions of the N1 are now available. I intend to have a go at building one of your N1 bodies next month (have quite a few of the latest N2 chassis on which to have a go now) and am researching the type. The locomotive I am looking at for my first build is 69478 (seen on page 38 of the respective Yeadon's register), which is a non-condensing fitted one. I believe this is the exact same type as the one you have done above, but I am unsure.

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Hi Andy,

 

I'm just writing to inquire what versions of the N1 are now available. I intend to have a go at building one of your N1 bodies next month (have quite a few of the latest N2 chassis on which to have a go now) and am researching the type. The locomotive I am looking at for my first build is 69478 (seen on page 38 of the respective Yeadon's register), which is a non-condensing fitted one. I believe this is the exact same type as the one you have done above, but I am unsure.

Hi Simon,

 

69478 is one of the superheated versions so not quite the same as the model I currently have available (chimney to the front of the smokebox, snifter valves behind the chimney). 69478 is however, the exact loco I'm basing my superheated model on. It's ready to print now but I didn't really want to release it for public consumption until I've done a test print when I have a bit of spare cash. I've put together some info on the West Riding locos and I'll PM this to you in a bit.

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...

 

This is why I have decided that while this particular process is not really suitable final products, it does simplify pattern making and so all future loco parts are likely to be primally resin castings.

I wonder if you'd be more specific, Bill. I have thought that the process was inadequate for details that the modeller would normally reproduce in wire, simply because a resin 'wire' would be less resilient to everyday wear. I have also thought that it might be better to have a locomotive in major sub-assemblies, ie boiler, firebox, smokebox; platform (footplate); cab; and backplate with details like chimney etc as white metal castings, or, as appropriate, etched brass.

 

Is this approach the one you're driving at or have I misunderstood your intentions and the process itself?

 

Regards

Edited by PenrithBeacon

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I believe that a well designed and well finished model, whether in kit form or RTR, is going to have a much wider appeal that one where the modeller has to spent a good deal of time cleaning up the deficiencies of the production processes. You can see at least some of my approach on my blog. (URL below)

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Hi folks,

The superheated boiler version of the N1 has now been successfully (well almost - see below) test printed and is now available to buy on Shapeways (signature link below or PM me).

As before this is based on a West Riding loco no 69478 which has no condensing equipment. The detail differences are mainly on the smokebox; chimney forward, snifter valves, rivets as well as the lubricator on the right side running plate. The small handwheel on this part is below Shapeways recommended minimum size for FUD but has actually come out quite well. What didn't come out well and you will notice on the images is that the front face of the rear splasher on the right side only is missing. This was due to a missing part, a school boy error that has now been fixed.

The non-working buffers come on a seperate sprue inside the bunker. You can use them as is or replace them with Alan Gibson brass ones as the locating holes have been designed to accommodate these.

This test prototype is on its way to SAC Martin and will feature soon on the Copley Hill blog.

 

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The model is coming along nicely (more on the build here).

 

I've actually managed to reinstate most of the diecast weight, albeit by cutting it in specific places to allow it to fit properly. In hindsight I could have filed one end down and cut the other less drastically, but it makes the N1 a much heavier model which will aid traction overall. 

 

In addition to reusing as much of the donor Hornby N2's bodyshell (including handrail knobs, safety valves and similar) I've also used your 3D printed buffers Andrew. The more I looked at them, the more I felt they captured the shape and presence of the originals better than my intended sprung alternative. Hopefully after painting and weathering the whole model will look the part. Certainly it has come together rather easily and I'm very happy with 69478's progress.

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Looking good there Simon and nice "repair" on the faulty splasher. I think the big rivets around the buffers (which are on the prototype but are not on the Alan Gibson brass ones) help with the look.

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Looking good there Simon and nice "repair" on the faulty splasher. I think the big rivets around the buffers (which are on the prototype but are not on the Alan Gibson brass ones) help with the look.

 

Thanks Andrew, I must say your 3D printed buffers seem to fit the bill more than the sprung buffers I was going to fit. The next job was going to be fitting the coal rails, but my preferred supplier of brass rod has sent me the wrong thickness today, so I'll be concentrating on other parts of the build instead.

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