RMweb Premium Ray H Posted July 17, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 17, 2012 My attention has been drawn to the operational potential of a layout based on the line west from Bletchley with its links to Oxford, Banbury and London and beyond. This has been confirmed by the recent purchase of a book entitled "Oxford to Bletchley including Verney Junction to Banbury" first published in 2005. Even in the latter days there seemed to be a reasonably hectic passenger service given the rural nature of the line with around 20 passenger trains each way in 1962. DMUs appear to have been trialled but the book doesn't show much freight and none that is diesel hauled. Some passenger trains non-stopped a lot of stations suggesting that there may have been even more using the line albeit not advertised (aside from any that might have used the line whilst the WCML was being electrified). I'd like to try to learn a little more about traffic on the line around 1960 and wonder if anyone has WTTs or any other summary information about the line that they'd be prepared to share. I'm minded to use the operational potential of Winslow as the basis for a small layout (although not attempt to build a replica thereof). The station building appears to have been demolished before I even knew of its existence so any pictures of the area would also be welcome. The local history group's information about the line published on their website relates more to the origins rather than the operational history. Many thanks. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheEngineShed Posted July 17, 2012 Share Posted July 17, 2012 I've looked at Winslow a few times, it certainly has appeal, from a modelling standpoint. If you haven't been here, click the link, and there are more station photos at the link at the bottom: http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/w/winslow/index.shtml Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted July 18, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2012 Many thanks for the link. I had seen that site before but had failed to note the two books which are referenced thereon. I might try the local library as well (if it is still open!). Many years ago LTE (as it was then) were required to send copies of all working timetables to the British Museum library. Were BR similarly required to do so and/or is there anywhere else - like the NRM? - that holds copies of these historical documents for reference purposes? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted July 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2012 I grew up alongside the Bletchley to Oxford Branch; there was always plenty to see. Black 5's & 8F's and also Std 4 & 5's plus 9F's on the Irthlingborough to South Wales Iron Ore Trains. Winslow will miss out on some of the Trip workings Between Bletchley Yard and Swanbourne Sidings. Unique M79900/1 Railcars on the Buckingham / Banbury Branch working in conjunction with 84002 / 84004 on the Push/Pull trains. Happy days! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 (edited) I used the line occasionally in the early-mid 1960s, mostly to get from Oxford to Bicester to watch the last steam workings on the Paddington-Birmingham line but once as the first leg of an interminable cross country journey to Wroxham for a Sea Scout cruise on the Norfolk Broads. I remember the trains then being two car DMUs - possibly doubled in peak times- that always left from one of the downside bays at Oxford but don't remember there being any loco hauled passenger trains. I never saw any freight traffic on the line though it must have existed if only for the Army supplies depot at Bicester. Edited July 18, 2012 by Pacific231G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted July 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2012 I never saw any freight traffic on the line though it must have existed if only for the Army supplies depot at Bicester. I think some of the freight went via Yarnton, so you would missed it if you were on Oxford Station. You must have seen the 14:00 Bletchley to Oxford Parcels which produce a Bletchley Black 5 or Std 5 (even a 8F on occasion). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted July 18, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2012 I've managed to the OPC book in the aforsesaid mentioned website's link from the library and I found the other book fors less than £4 (plus p&p) so I ordered that. Early indications from the library book are that the passenger service on the line was boosted with the advent of (several different classes of) DMUs and there are a few pictures of freights on the line around the same time. There's 4mm to the foot plans of the Bicester London Road buildings that look quite similar to the ones in the pictures of Winslow. In fact I believe that Winslow and Bicester were the only two stations to sport brick built buildings. At first glance there seems a vague resemblance to parts of the Metcalfe (brick) station building kit. Passenger access between platforms was almost universally by barrow crossing rather than footbridge. I've got 3 weeks to study the 150 pages and decide whether the OPC book is worth buying as a reference. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Pannier Tank Posted July 18, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 18, 2012 Bletchley DMU's M50938 M50939 M50940 M50941 M50942 M50943 M50944 M50945 M50946 M56221 M56222 M56223 M56224 M56225 M56226 M56227 M56228 M56229 M79900 M79901 Bletchley allox 1966-68: M79131-6 (wdn 1/68, 10/67, 10/67, 4/68, 4/69, 1/68) DMBS M79184-7 (wdn 4/69, 1/68, 4/69, 4/68) DMBS M79653-7 (wdn 4/68, 4/69, 6/67, 10/67, 4/69) DTCL M79189-90 (1966 only) DMCL M79131 M79132 M79133 M79134 M79135 M79136 M79184 M79185 M79186 M79187 M79653 M79654 M79655 M79656 M79657 M79189 M79190 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 (edited) I think some of the freight went via Yarnton, so you would missed it if you were on Oxford Station. You must have seen the 14:00 Bletchley to Oxford Parcels which produce a Bletchley Black 5 or Std 5 (even a 8F on occasion). I was more often between the Pressed Steel Works and Port Meadow before the Bletchley line diverged completely. At Oxford station itself I wouldn't have known which line the freight - coal mainly- passing through had come from apart from the Witney Blanket train: the Pannier that hauled that had bearings whose knocking you could hear for miles. Edited July 19, 2012 by Pacific231G Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
adanapress Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Bicester Ordnance Depot in the 1950s was not only rail connected, but it was extremely busy. National Service was still in full operation, and the supplies therefor were quite often provided from there. The range was staggering, how about mule harness for a division!, and American Ordnance officers checking the bottom shelves that the US had paid for, just in case the naugnty Brits had used some! Locos right inside the buildings I seem to recall, but it was a long time ago. Certainly a very extensive rail netowrk in very active use, all coming off the Oxford-Bletchely line via the MODs own extensive sidings.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Bicester Ordnance Depot in the 1950s was not only rail connected, but it was extremely busy. Less busy now but still rail connected and with an extensive track layout. Which area was the ordnance depot? I'd understood that it had become a general stores rather than Ordnance depot. Most of its freight seems to be containerised these days but it still seems fairly active as a rail depot. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
45669 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Afternoon All, I don't think that I can help with pictures of Winslow, but I have got some pictures of Verney Junction and one of Buckingham on my Flickr website. This is the first one and clicking on it will enlarge it and take you to the others : R1257. Sign at Verney Junction. January,1964. by Ron Fisher, on Flickr Hope that they are of interest. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted October 23, 2012 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 23, 2012 Many thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panelman Posted January 23, 2013 Share Posted January 23, 2013 Hi Ray, I have some WR WTTs for the late 50s and early 60s which show traffic for the Oxford-Bletchley line, and a couple of WTTs for the Bletchley end (1965 i think). If i can be of any help please let me know. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted January 23, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 23, 2013 Anything that might give me an idea of the freight on the line around the end of the 50s/early 60s would be welcome. You might know better from the books you have but I suspect the freight was gradually declining and by 1965 not that excessive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panelman Posted January 27, 2013 Share Posted January 27, 2013 The winter 1960/61 WR WTT shows the following freight traffic booked for the Oxford-Bletchley section: DOWN LINE Days Run From/To Bletchley Swanbourne Sdgs Bicester Yarnton Oxford North Jn Headcode 8V61 MX 20:40 Bedford-Hinksey 00:20 01:29 01:50 8V63 MO 06:06 Swanbourne-Hinksey 06:05 06:55 07:37 8V65 SO 08:45 Swanbourne-Oxford* 08:45 10:34-11:10 12:08* * presumably Rewley Road 8V65 SX 08:45 Swanbourne-Oxford* 08:45 10:34-11:20 12:18* * presumably Rewley Road 8V64 SO 06:10 Wellingborough-Hinksey 11:20 12:29 8V64 SX 06:10 Wellingborough-Yarnton 11:25-11:45 12:35 8V68 SX 12:47 Swanbourne-Hinksey 12:47 13:38-13:44 15:00 8V68 SO 12:45 Swanbourne-Hinksey 12:45 13:38-13:44 15:15 9A28 SX 15:25 Bicester-Hinksey 15:25 17:10 8V70 14:43 Swanbourne-Oxford* 14:43 15:35-16:00 16:45* *presumably Rewley Road 8V71 MSX 11:55 Irthlingboro'-Yarnton 14:50 16:24 17:10 8V71 SO 11:40 Irthlingboro'-Yarnton no time shown 15:54 16:40 0V00 MSX 16:00 Bletchley-Yarnton 16:00 17:00 17:45 "to work 19:45 Yarnton-Swanbourne and 20:45 Oxford-Swanbourne" ( 2 light engines) 8V73 SX 14:00 Irthlingboro'-Yarnton 16:43 18:08 19:00 8V75 SO 15:50 Corby Sdgs-Hinksey 19:10 20:10 21:00 8V75 SX 19:50 Corby Sdgs-Hinksey 22:55 23:55 00:45 5V06 SX 19:14 Ipswich-Cardiff 23:52 00:50 01:21-01:31 I'll get on and transcribe the Up line shortly! I'm not too sure what these trains actually conveyed, though 5V06 is mentioned in the Ian Allen 'Express Freight Trains' book and had continental ferry vans attached to the rear. The class 5 'D' headcode reflected the air-braked-only vans in an otherwise fully-fitted train. The E.R. type 2 was replaced with an LM class 5 at Bletchley. Hope this helps? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted January 28, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2013 That's brilliant. Very many thanks. Does the above suggest that they were virtually all trip workings with no block or long distance trains. Or were cross country journeys in those days divided into smaller portions to facilitate either loco or crew changes. I suppose the Corby workings could have conveyed steel. There's no suggestion of through coal trains nor of cattle or milk. It is surprising that there's no suggestion of a local/pick-up freight even though (at least some of?) the local yards were still open then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 28, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2013 Some of them are reasonably easy to work out from the information given by Panelman. The Irthlingborough - Yarnton trains are most likely iron ore and I suspect the Wellingborough train might be the same(?). The Swanbourne - Oxford trains most likely include the local freight trips (assuming they were in the WTT notwithstanding that they are shown as Class 8 (although they were inter-Regional which might explain why they were not Class 9). The 15.25 Bicester - Hinksey was no doubt the return leg of a Hinksey - Bicester trip I'm no at all sure about the Corby - Hinksey trains, they could well be steel products as already suggested and I'm inclined to think that is the most likely traffic for them. The Ipswich - Cardiff was probably centred around empties involved in tinplate traffic - loaded outwards from South Wales and empty circuit and 'return to xxx' vehicles going back to South Wales although the train would almost certainly have conveyed other traffic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pacific231G Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I can't remember when the link between the Bletchley-Oxford and the OWW near Yarnton was closed. "Railway Cottage" is still there at the site of the LC on the Woodstock Road. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted January 28, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2013 The winter 1960/61 WR WTT shows the following freight traffic booked for the Oxford-Bletchley section: DOWN LINE Days Run From/To Headcode 8V61 MX 20:40 Bedford-Hinksey 8V63 MO 06:06 Swanbourne-Hinksey 8V65 SX 08:45 Swanbourne-Oxford* Trip 8V64 SX 06:10 Wellingborough-Yarnton Iron Ore? 8V68 SX 12:47 Swanbourne-Hinksey 9A28 SX 15:25 Bicester-Hinksey 8V70 14:43 Swanbourne-Oxford* Trip 8V71 MSX 11:55 Irthlingboro'-Yarnton Iron Ore 8V73 SX 14:00 Irthlingboro'-Yarnton Iron Ore 8V75 SX 19:50 Corby Sdgs-Hinksey Steel 5V06 SX 19:14 Ipswich-Cardiff (Steel?) Empties 5V06 is mentioned in the Ian Allen 'Express Freight Trains' book and had continental ferry vans attached to the rear. The class 5 'D' headcode reflected the air-braked-only vans in an otherwise fully-fitted train. I've removed the SO and LE movements to make things a little easier. I've guessed that 8V65 and possible 8V70 are trip workings, the former because of the booked journey time, the latter because it stops at Biscester. Bill Simpson refers to the former as such in his Oxford & Cambridge Railway in Profile Volume 1 Oxford to Bletchley. That leaves four trips to Hinksey - which was/is where and what is was there (I can't find it in my ancient Ian Allan atlas). Were there air braked trains around in 1960? I suppose any traffic via Banbury (or the GC) was shown elsewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I've removed the SO and LE movements to make things a little easier. I've guessed that 8V65 and possible 8V70 are trip workings, the former because of the booked journey time, the latter because it stops at Biscester. Bill Simpson refers to the former as such in his Oxford & Cambridge Railway in Profile Volume 1 Oxford to Bletchley. That leaves four trips to Hinksey - which was/is where and what is was there (I can't find it in my ancient Ian Allan atlas). Were there air braked trains around in 1960? I suppose any traffic via Banbury (or the GC) was shown elsewhere. The only vehicles fitted with air-brakes or dual-fitted then would have been continental ferrywagons, which might well have come via Ipswich from Parkeston Quay. Hinksey is the large yard (currently used by the engineers) on the Down side, just on the Oxford side of where the Morris Cowley branch leaves the main line; trains going there may have been carrying traffic for the Morris works. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Ray H Posted January 28, 2013 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2013 Hinksey . . . . . trains going there may have been carrying traffic for the Morris works. Would this have been steel wagons, vans or . . . . ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted January 28, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2013 Would this have been steel wagons, vans or . . . . ? Possibly - depends really who BMC (as they then were) were buying steel from. However did any steel plants in the Corby area roll cold reduced steel coil at that time? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Possibly - depends really who BMC (as they then were) were buying steel from. However did any steel plants in the Corby area roll cold reduced steel coil at that time? They used to buy their pressings in from Pressed Steel Fisher, so I don't know if they'd handle coil on site themselves. There was probably quite a lot of export traffic at the time, and not just to the Colonies. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I had intended to put some scans into this thread, but when I came to do that, I couldn't find it, so they went here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/65959-the-old-bletchley-to-oxford-line/?p=927744 instead. jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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