ash39 Posted July 27, 2012 Share Posted July 27, 2012 Looks as if the infamous grill slats often get bent/misshapen during service. Not sure how strong the etch is but might be quite a nice touch on a battered freight workhorse to bend a couple. Might make the amount less noticeable too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Hi All I thought this comparison was interesting and people can draw their own conclusions Its worth pointing out the frames of the headlights on the Hornby one are not black so it makes it look worse than it is but to answer tims point its pretty obvious IMHO that the etches have not been measured up from a real loco as they are nothing like. Theres little point giving pete feedback that its spot on when its so clearly not (it actually damages what he is trying to do and doesn't support it) and I hope that Pete takes the info offered in this thread to make changes that result in a worthwhile product. Its what RM web is good at, Dapol Dave makes good use of it I really think Pete should to rather than his standard 'only ask anything through my website' approach. You only have to look at the RTR SPA thread to see how RMweb readers comments have helped improve the product. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted July 28, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 28, 2012 So a wonky model looks wrong but is right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Your point Martin? No one has claimed the Hornby 90 is right (the front details are the least of it's problems) I am just concerned that we don't see a return to loco detailing of 20 years ago where people shell out their hard earned and go to a lot of effort to add bits of brass that are actually no better (and in some cases worse) than what they started with. Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash39 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 I think it's a bit extreme to say that, it's clearly a big improvement not least because you get the depth of the light clusters through perspex rather than a stuck on light lens. The picture comparison is, with respect, not very telling at all. The real photo looks to have been taken at a much longer focal length than the model one, so this compresses perspective (you can tell by looking at the angles of the front end, particularly the bottom section below the lights). I hope as you say Pete takes the feedback on board and corrects what most people are saying is a simple fix (I don't know much about etching), but for me I'd still be very happy with it as it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 It's for each person to decide if they prefer it or not, but the discussion is really aimed at helping Pete produce a better product. I know he's not saying much but I see him reading the thread quite a lot so he is paying attention. It's ok about the photo thing as I worked as a finisher for nearly 10 years I know all about lens distortion. It why I only focused on the cab front not the overall height. Edit - having said that I'm still convinced there's a hibernating all new class 90 project from Hornby! Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ash39 Posted July 28, 2012 Share Posted July 28, 2012 Fair point well made Jim. I can imagine doing about 4 conversions with the PH kit and then Hornby releasing a new tooling! Still I'm sure it's happened to other people before now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted July 30, 2012 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 30, 2012 Your point Martin? No one has claimed the Hornby 90 is right (the front details are the least of it's problems) I am just concerned that we don't see a return to loco detailing of 20 years ago where people shell out their hard earned and go to a lot of effort to add bits of brass that are actually no better (and in some cases worse) than what they started with. Cheers Jim My point is that is you do a perfect grill it looks right but the real ones are dented and messy, and look like a bad model if you know what I mean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account 2 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Hi I really do like this new kit from phd, I don't really care about any minor issues with the etches. Anyway I have a few questions 1) I've never used any resin parts before (front valance) and I would like to know if its east to make 0.5 mm holes in resin?? can I use a heated 0.5 mm wire to pierce it through?? 2) Does this kit come ready made i.e. the brass parts or does it need to be soldered? 3) what can I use for the lens for the lightframes? will clear plastic do the job well enough Sorry I my questions are silly, but living in India things don't come cheap and not much is readily available. Thanks in advance. Jeremiah Bunyan. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Jeremiah If you want to put any holes in the resin parts you will need to use a drill bit of the size you wish to use, the Resin parts should be washed in warm soapy water before painting. The set does not come ready built you will need toy use solder to assemble the parts and you will need a hold and fold tool to hold the parts for cleaning and shaping. for the window glazing and the light covers Acetate should be used, the set comes with full instructions illustrations and written and there are some detail pictures of a real locomotive. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Since you are (wisely) answering questions on forum Pete can you confirm the errors will be fixed? Cheers Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
the penguin of doom Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I'd leave the number as it is. I think it looks quite authentic. Cheers. Sean. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 A class 90 grill has 11 horizontal bars not 13 Pete (not a question just an observation) You might want to tweak the artwork before you get a whole sheet done. HTH Jim I actually make it 10 slats plus the bottom ledge with 10 gaps in between, 11 if the top slat has been distorted downwards. Pete's etch has 11 distinct slats (not including one as a close fit to the top) and 12 gaps. Pete has been concerned that there has been criticism of the product but I can clearly see there's a difference and therefore would not remove comments which are accurate. I have advised Pete of this and advised that he should address the comments; belatedly in a PM exchange it appears the etches have been changed from the original design and I have asked Pete to be very clear about this and advise readers what they do get. If Pete wants to publicise a product on forum he should respond to any questions on forum or at very least a formulated response through me. Pete has posted in topic since my last PM to him advising that he should make it crystal clear to avoid any unnecessary criticism or escalation of work for the admin team. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Jim The issue with the grill has been Corrected and the other items that you raised were looked at and sorted during the checking phase of this project several months ago and the set was passed as fit for purpose, ((this was done by someone more qualified than you or I to do so) don't ask who because I cannot say due to a None Disclosure Agreement, I entered into have access the reference information) which is to improve the Hornby model and enable DCC lights to be fitted if desired. The model shown used a set of test etches and was too far along in construction to change the grill. The production etches are being produced at the moment so when I have them the set will be added to my site and there will be pictures of the etches on there. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Pete, despite our communications it is not clear from that post whether the grille will have the correct number of slats/gaps. Has it been changed from the pre-production image shown earlier or not? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Edited that should be clear enough for a blind person. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Edited that should be clear enough for a blind person. No Pete, despite the insulting tone of that it is not clear. You say 'corrected' but it doesn't say (or show) how many slats/gaps there are or will be to confirm whether it's correctly corrected. I could say you've been quite evasive about giving clear responses; you've caused me a lot of time on this issue and I want absolute clarity now and from this point forward. I will also publicly ask that you start a separate topic for products in this area without impacting on other people's topics which has resulted in this fiasco. Don't ask me to dig you out of a hole again unless you can give clear information. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 The number of slats as been changed to 11 and there position been altered to represent more closely the real Locomotive without compromising the design of the set. And it was not me that invaded some one else’s topic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 The number of slats as been changed to 11 and there position been altered to represent more closely the real Locomotive without compromising the design of the set. And it was not me that invaded some one else’s topic. Hmm, it mst have been someone else then that chose to promote a product in someone's detailing topic. Why didn't you just confirm that simple fact (although I still disagree with the numbers) earlier instead of choosing not to respond to earlier questions and being obtuse in PM responses? You really have messed me about with this one, please don't push it any further. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
virginhst539 Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 just a question pete will you be provideing a rubbing plate for those wanting to model a passenger alocated class 90 such as the ones used on the sleepers ect Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 No I won't be supplying the rubbing plate, if a modeller wishes to fit two of these can be obtained fro Replica Railways part no: RA109 Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account 2 Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 Thanx Pete I'll be brushing up on my soldering skills now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jim s-w Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 The replica rubbing plates are the mk1 shape while if you look at Tims pics they are a completely different shape on a 90. Does the Hornby model come with them? Perhaps you could graft the resin part to the original bufferbeam? A1 models do the chopped oleo buffer Hth Jim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 The class 60 buffers are a very close to the freight buffers fitted to the 90's and if the modeller has not got access to a supply of A1 products then they can fit the buffers that came with the model 90% of people would be happy with those if they have no access to an alternative the same can be said for the rubbing plate. The set is there to improve a kids toy with the least amount of work. Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Harvey Posted July 31, 2012 Author Share Posted July 31, 2012 Just so it is clear here are two images of the production grill for the class 90 set, I cannot show you a picture of the actual etch as the production etches are being produced at the moment. In this image extract from the artwork you are looking at the grill upside down, the narrow part being the bottom and the blue is half etch on the opposite side of the etch the red is half etch on the side you are looking at. (incase anyone is unfamilia with looking at artwork) Pete Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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