Semaphore Signals - 4mm Scale (Mainly)

[Steve Hewitt]

And here's the Video.....

 

https://youtu.be/o6JbbS1C_rA

 

Steve.

 

 

Why won't it embed?

[Horsetan]

And here's the Video.....

 

http://youtu.be/o6JbbS1C_rA

 

 

Why won't it embed?

Is it something to do with https:// ?

[Steve Hewitt]

Duplicate deleted.  SH

Edited January 21, 2016 by Steve Hewitt

[Michael Delamar]

Steve I love it but I dont like the kink in the top of the wire for the top arm. Could that be changed please? Even if the wire has to stretch over at an angle.

 

Mike

[LNERGE]

Thing's did get kinky now 'n then.. The is the top of a signal recovered from Whitemoor Junction. It had multiple miniature arms at WJ but i have fitted it with main arms. The kink in the down rod is genuine from it's WJ days.

 

[G.M.R.]

Thing's did get kinky now 'n then.. The is the top of a signal recovered from Whitemoor Junction. It had multiple miniature arms at WJ but i have fitted it with main arms. The kink in the down rod is genuine from it's WJ days.

 

20160122_104922_resized.jpg

Great photo. Is that your collection yard? Would it possible to see more details of that signal post. The position switch for example, and the other bits further down the post. Maybe on a separate thread if you don't want to clog up Steve's.

Edited January 22, 2016 by G.M.R.

[uax6]

No, thats his Garden! It's a lovely place to spend a few hours, mind you you need to have your wits about you if the boxes are in operation, those arms are very close to 'Ladykillers' height!

 

Andy G

[Enterprisingwestern]

Hi Keiran,

 

That's a very kind offer.

I must admit that over the years I've built several ladders using wire rungs and etched stiles and never managed to make a straight one!

I'll certainly give your jig a try, and post the process and result on here.

 

Steve.

This is probably the ultimate teaching your grandmother to suck eggs post, but here goes.

I use Colin Craigs ladder assembly jigs, and even I can manage straight ladders, and let me tell you that's quite an achievement.

I've just managed to make a MSE Westinghouse ground signal to operate and so I am absolutely cocked and hooped at my achievement, to see your work leaves me open mouthed.

A belting thread Steve, thanks.

 

Mike.

[Steve Hewitt]

Steve I love it but I dont like the kink in the top of the wire for the top arm. Could that be changed please? Even if the wire has to stretch over at an angle.

 

Mike

Mike,

 

Like this?

 

 

 

The signal has all the arms in "Mid Position" as it was connected to GF Controllers set to "Safe" which sets all the servos digitally to their mid-position.

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

No, thats his Garden! It's a lovely place to spend a few hours, mind you you need to have your wits about you if the boxes are in operation, those arms are very close to 'Ladykillers' height!

 

Andy G

We're going to an amateur production of "The Ladykillers" this evening.

Les Green, who makes many wonderful parts for me, and builds fantastic things for Lime Street, is the "Lighting Man" for The Hall Players of Preston.

 

Steve.

[Michael Delamar]

Thanks Steve, customer focused as always looks much better.

 

Look forward to collecting it.

 

Mike

[Steve Hewitt]

A diversion..............

 

Those following this thread will be familiar with my use of Helmsman's "Gaslight" LEDs and fibre optics to illuminate my semaphore signals.

To facilitate installation and removeal for maintenance of my signals, I developed a simple plug and socket arrangement made from brass tubes or turnings. 

 

The LED was then secured in its brass housing below the baseboard, and the Fibre Optic link to the signal lamp was plugged in place to collect the light.

 

This has worked very successfully for several years, but is quite time consuming to make.

With the availability of accurate components made in resin by 3D Printing, it is time to progress...

 

Les Green has drawn up and had made this superb plug and socket:

 

The Socket takes a 3mm LED which is secured with a drop of superglue.

 

The fibres are terminated at the end of the plug, again by a drop of superglue:

 

Apply some volts:

 

The plug is even secured in the socket with a little bayonet lug:

 

 

The ends of the fibres are held securely on the end of the LED to capture the light most efficiently.

 

This little experiment has proved very satisfactory and will be used in all my future illuminated signals.

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Another little something on the side.......

 

Several years ago I got into building model signals because the club layout I was associated with lacked them.

The club was, and still is Blackburn & East Lancs MRS.

The layout was, and still is Oxenholme, our 00 fairly scale model of the West Coast station and Engine Shed with branch junction for Windermere.

 

Over the years I've built semaphores in 2, 4 and 7mm scale for club layouts, and the latest project has just requested my contribution.

The layout is a replacement for "Blackmill" which was our club's 00 ultra Modern image take on the local scene.

 

The new layout "Bankfield" http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/98704-bankfield-son-of-blackmill-work-has-started/#entry1871526 willbe in similar time period and based on Peak Forest, so being semaphore signalled.

The signalling plan is being put together, but I've been advised there will be at least 3 double and 4 single BR/LMS Ground Signals.

 

It just so happens that Ralph R from the Manchester MRS recently sent me a sample etch which they have produced for their Slattocks P4 project, of the said Double Ground signal.

Its available from their website http://www.palatinemodels.co.uk/

 

The etch is very neatly produced in Nickel Silver, and is a straight forward fold and solder for the whole main structure.

I decided to have a go at building this up

 

Front view

 

Rear. I've drilled extra holes where the light lenses should be, as I'll be using fibre optics for lighting.

 

Side.  Here you can see I've added two short lengths of 0.6mm O.D. Brass Tube for the spindle bearings.

 

I like to install my signals on a "foundation tube".

 

In this case I'm using 5/16th brass tube.

Inside this tube are the two guide tube 1/16in dia thickwall for the operating wires, and the 1/16in dia thinwall tube for the fibre optics.

 

The signal discs are attached to 0.4mm N/S wire pivots, set at the 4deg angle so they can overlap.

 

All the other moving parts - weight bars, blinders etc. are hanging on a length of wire for painting.

 

I'll take some pics of the completed "test build" soon.......

 

Steve.

 

[Jon Fitness]

Very nice!. Looks decidedly better than the cast versions available...

JF

[Steve Hewitt]

Completing the test build.....

 

Assembly was fairly straight forward, except getting the weight bars to move.

The etched weight bar has the hole for the drive between bar and back blinder very close to the pivot.

I would normally have just routed the operating wire through the weight bar en-route to the blinder.

 

This time I had to attach a small forked whatsit to the operating wire so it could lift the bar.

You can see them between the weight bars awaiting painting.

 

They're not really visible on the final assembly

 

Front view from ground level:

 

And rear view, showing the fibres quite well:

 

Here's my little video of it on test:

 

I'm quite pleased with this first build of the Palatine Models kit.

I'll be making up several more for the Club's new layout, and I hope to tighten the assembly quite a bit.

(Too much space between signal body and back blinders etc.)

 

Steve.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Andy Y

[Tony Teague]

Steve

I have heard a lot about problems with "Servo chatter" on signals and with other servo applications; do you get this with the servos that you use and / or how do you avoid it?

Tony

[Steve Hewitt]

Hi Tony,

 

Steve

I have heard a lot about problems with "Servo chatter" on signals and with other servo applications; do you get this with the servos that you use and / or how do you avoid it?

Tony

Hi Tony,

 

If by "chatter" you mean a gentle "Hummmmmmm" then yes I occasionally experience that.

It is usually not permanent and several things can make it stop:

 

1.  Repeatedly operate the signal a few times.

2.  Re-set the signal movement. i.e. the Danger and Clear positions.

3.  If the signal mechanism is stiff, lubricate it. (One very small drop on the point of a needle at each pivot).

4.  Slacken and re-fix the servo's mount - to ensure the servo body isn't stressed.

5.  Turn up the radio.

 

Hope this is helpful,

Steve.

[G.M.R.]

Hi Tony,

 

 

Hi Tony,

 

If by "chatter" you mean a gentle "Hummmmmmm" then yes I occasionally experience that.

It is usually not permanent and several things can make it stop:

 

1.  Repeatedly operate the signal a few times.

2.  Re-set the signal movement. i.e. the Danger and Clear positions.

3.  If the signal mechanism is stiff, lubricate it. (One very small drop on the point of a needle at each pivot).

4.  Slacken and re-fix the servo's mount - to ensure the servo body isn't stressed.

5.  Turn up the radio.

 

Hope this is helpful,

Steve.

I too experience this with analogue servos. Another way I have found of stopping it is to reposition the servo arm a single spline in either direction and then reset the end points. Often works. I understand that using digital servos, which run from the same controllers, clear the problem completely and also do not move on start up either.

[Steve Hewitt]

I too experience this with analogue servos. Another way I have found of stopping it is to reposition the servo arm a single spline in either direction and then reset the end points. Often works. I understand that using digital servos, which run from the same controllers, clear the problem completely and also do not move on start up either.

Thanks Geoff,

 

I always try to get digital versions of the servos I use, so that may be why I don't have the problem very often.

 

Twitching at start up can be a problem, depending on the Controller you use.

The GF controllers I use manage start up carefully, ensuring that the "signal" is sent to the servo in advance of the power being turned on.

 

Steve.

[Tony Teague]

Steve, Geoff

Thanks, very helpful

Tony

[G.M.R.]

Thanks Geoff,

 

I always try to get digital versions of the servos I use, so that may be why I don't have the problem very often.

 

Twitching at start up can be a problem, depending on the Controller you use.

The GF controllers I use manage start up carefully, ensuring that the "signal" is sent to the servo in advance of the power being turned on.

 

Steve.

The GF sounds good. The controller that I'm using is fine, but it does send the servos to their high position during power up. It is the set high position, so the only affect is that the signals all go off together for a few seconds after the power is turned on.

[Ralph R]

Steve, you have made a superb job of building our LMS ground signal etch. I have made up a few but they can't compare to the build you have there, well done. 

 

Can you elaborate on how you painted the red band please? I have used the transfers available from Hall Royd Junction for mine but it looks like yours may be painted. These things are tiny so I would be interested to know. 

 

I am making a new set for Slattocks Junction which use the MERG system of removing the signals from the baseboards leaving the servos attached to the baseboards. They are effectively hot-pluggable signals using chip carriers for the locators and so far the results are very promising and well worth using. We have a 3 high ground signal block so it is more or less essential that they are removable from the layout for track cleaning purposes.

 

Excellent work, pity you can't live near us!!

 

Ralph

[Ralph R]

Thought I might add a copy of a photo of a 3 head ground signal from Slattocks Junction. The signal discs have the transfers applied but it is not finished as the curved plastic base shows but remember how tiny this is - about the size of a 5p piece. The white base is plasticard which forms the concrete foundation some of these signals were built on. This is now being replaced as mentioned earlier. Don't want to hijack your thread Steve but thought it might help to show what you can do with the etch (or 2 in this case).

 

Ralph

Edited January 28, 2016 by Ralph R

[ROY@34F]

Steve, you have made a superb job of building our LMS ground signal etch. I have made up a few but they can't compare to the build you have there, well done. 

 

Can you elaborate on how you painted the red band please? I have used the transfers available from Hall Royd Junction for mine but it looks like yours may be painted. These things are tiny so I would be interested to know. 

 

I am making a new set for Slattocks Junction which use the MERG system of removing the signals from the baseboards leaving the servos attached to the baseboards. They are effectively hot-pluggable signals using chip carriers for the locators and so far the results are very promising and well worth using. We have a 3 high ground signal block so it is more or less essential that they are removable from the layout for track cleaning purposes.

 

Excellent work, pity you can't live near us!!

 

Ralph

Yes Ralph , I would be also be interested how Steve paints the red strips , but thought I'd just say how I attack it and which works OK for me .  I paint a cigarette paper (Rizla blue , which is .001" thick) with Humbrol Signal Red . When well dry , cut a strip/strips what width you think , and stick a length on the signal with varnish , manouvering into position with a fine brush. When well dry again , trim the overhanging paper very carefully . I initially spray Halfords white primer on the signals of course . Steve may well have a better idea and I'm sure like me , you too find his work fascinating and inspiring .

This fag paper idea was on the go in the '60s , before lining transfers were available for loco lining , which folk like me of a certain age remember .

 

Regards , Roy . 

[Ralph R]

Thanks Roy, that is very useful. Will try that out because when you look through a magnifier you can see the dot pattern from the colour laser printed transfer - probably fine for most but in reality if I can see it then I think others will too and I will try and do a better job. I have to say that none of my ground signals have lights nor do the balance weights move, going to have to try and resolve the balance weights though but lights are out for this layout.

 

Ralph