Semaphore Signals - 4mm Scale (Mainly)

[Steve Hewitt]

Hi John,

 

I'm no expert on prototype practice, but there are some who follow this Topic who will be able answer your question I'm sure.

 

Steve.

[micknich2003]

Hi Steve,

 

As Jon has rightly said, fantastic work.

I note that the cantilevered doll has a tee just below the finial and there appears to be telegraph wires supported by the tee which look as though they may be running to the telegraph pole to the right of the signal. I have never seen this done on a signal before. Do we have any further information on this feature?

 

John R

They are Line Arms for the wires back to the Pole Route, almost certainly the arms are elecricaly repeated in the signalbox.

[iands]

Hi Steve,

As Jon has rightly said, fantastic work.

I note that the cantilevered doll has a tee just below the finial and there appears to be telegraph wires supported by the tee which look as though they may be running to the telegraph pole to the right of the signal. I have never seen this done on a signal before. Do we have any further information on this feature?

John R

Hi John,

 

If you look at the photo in #892 it shows a single telegraph pole in the opposite cess to the signal. Referring back to the photo in #895 it looks like the open wires route to this pole also (as well as the "main" pole), so I imagine that the signal is used to support these wires "purely for convenience" as it is there, rather than erecting a separate telegraph pole to get the wires to the other side of the tracks (i.e. taking an aerial route rather than having to cable under the tracks). A similar arrangement appears to be in place on the line curving off to the right. What the circuits on the wires are I've no idea at this juncture, but could be a telephone, a block circuit, or another circuit, but they don't appear to be for anything to do with the actual signal arm or light.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Regards, Ian.

[Steve Hewitt]

 

 

Next tasks are the moving parts. Time to breathe some life into this signal...........

 

Steve.

The operating wires are routed up the right hand main post (adjacent to the track):

which requires cranks to transfer the movement to the outer two arms:

via the weight bar to the arm:

Unfortunately, this means seven connections between the operating wire and the arm - lots of opportunity to lose some motion.

 

The connection to the middle arm is much more direct:

 

We now have:

 

At this stage its time to install the servos and check all is working before fitting the stage timbers and the fixed distant arms................

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Continuing......

 

"At this stage its time to install the servos and check all is working before fitting the stage timbers and the fixed distant arms................"

 

First I made a new "Transport & Test" frame for this signal and the next one or two.

This simulates the Layout baseboards and ensures alignment and transferability of the signal with its servos is as straight forward as possible:

The signals will travel on this frame and can be tested here before installation.

 

You can see the signals are in the "Safe" position, servos in middle of range, and arms between "On" and "Off".

The switch on the GF Controllers ensures the servo position is locked and they won't move when powered up.

 

Here the power has been applied, and the arms adjusted to "Danger".

 

Each arm is then adjusted for its "Clear" position, the timbers and Fixed Distant arms added and the signal is

just about complete.

 

 

 

That's all for now folks...........(video to follow)

 

Steve.

 

[Jon Fitness]

Looks fantastic Steve. Captures the real thing precisely.

JF

[Steve Hewitt]

Thanks Jon.

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

And here's the video.....

 

 

Steve.

[Clem]

Hi Steve, I'm just getting started on the signalling on my layout and have only very recently come across this thread which I have found absolutely essential reading. You provide such a brilliant methodical approach and as such I feel so much more confident tackling my signalling. I have made a start with a MSE upper quadrant ex-GN concrete post - there were two in the place I am basing my layout on, so it was a good simple example to start with. I am using a similar method of building a test rig, get it working with a servo and controller and then when all is good, installing it on the layout - although I have to finish the scenery first and am doing the signalling in parallel. 

One question (probably with an obvious answer) which I couldn't see answered explicitly in your notes, is exactly how you unplug from the test rig. You've drilled the servo horn to 1.6mm (1/16") to take the bottom part of the operating wire - the 1/16" tube bent at a right angle. I presume that must be clearance fit but loose enough to allow the horn to swing through the angle without gripping the 1/16" tube. So when unplugging,do you rely on enough sideways play on the operating wire to release it from the horn? I'm getting close to that point at the moment with this first signal about to be painted and then assembled. 

 

As a final point Steve, I must also add that I have had so much pleasure just looking at your signalling creations in this thread... An absolute joy!! 

[Steve Hewitt]

Hi Clem,

 

Thanks very much for your kind comments.

I'm glad you've found my scribblings helpful, that's the reason I write them!

 

To your specific question:

There are two answers, either being equally suitable in most cases.

 

1. As you suggest, gently ease the Brass Tube out of the Horn - I use a small screwdriver. There will be enough "spring" in the operating wire etc. to allow this.  Best done with the servo powered and locked in mid-throw, and the same for re-assembly later.

 

2. With the servo powered up and locked in mid-throw, unscrew the horn retaining screw and ease the horn off the servo shaft. The Horn can then hang from the operating wire etc. as you remove the signal.

 

As to the "Fit" of the horn on the tube, I aim for an "Easy Push" fit. Absolutely no obvious clearance.

I drill the horn 1.6mm by hand, then use a tapered broach to ease it. One twist will usually suffice.

Remember, the faster you rotate a drill the larger the hole it produces, so be very careful if using a power drill.

Nylon on brass is fairly self lubricating, but I apply a TINY drop of Silicone Lubricant when finally assembling the signal.

 

Don't hesitate to ask for more advice if I've failed to make anything clear.

 

Steve.

[Clem]

Hi Steve. Many thanks for coming back to me so quickly. That is really clear now and it's just helped remove that little bit of doubt you get when you are finding your way. Are you likely to be demo-ing at any upcoming exhibitions? It'd be great to meet you and have a chat.

 

I've included a quick photo (below) of where I am with this first attempt now. In many ways I'm not expecting too much as it's a learning exercise at this stage and if it works well then it's a bonus. The MSE GN concrete post upper quadrant kits are a great starting point for someone like me getting into doing fine scale signals for the first time. I'm hoping to do another similar one to this if this works out. The second is of interest as it resides next to the goods yard with limited clearance on the yard side, and on the prototype photo, the balance arm is hinged half way along towards the weight so that it hangs vertically down parallel to the post from the angled arm. I'm assuming it is for clearance reasons but it'd be a nice anyway to include this little feature.

 

After these first two signals, I'm hoping to progress from single post home signals to a couple of bracket signals which I need for the layout once I've built ip a little more confidence to tackle them. 

 

Best wishes and thanks again,

 

Clem

[Steve Hewitt]

Hi Clem,

 

That's coming along well.

 

In recent years I've only demo'ed at Warley and decided to call it a day last year.

I'll certainly be at Newcastle and Warley this year with the Liverpool Lime Street team, so do come along for a chat if you get to either event.

I also try to get to other events such as ExpoEM North, Scalefour North, York, Wigan etc.

Please PM me if you want to arrange a meeting.

 

Steve.

[ianmccreadie]

Fantastic work....very very impressive.

 

We use Dave Fentons mega points servo controller on Blair Atholl nice random bounce

 

 

[Steve Hewitt]

The second Rome Street Jct Up Home signal............

 

This is the one which won't be working as the route it controls just goes off the board!

 

Like so.

 

The signal is almost identical to the previous one, except for the lack of moving parts, and lights.

So far I've assembled all the metal components which can be soldered.

The rear view, which is the one visible on the layout.

 

 

The front view, which won't normally be seen.

 

Off to the Paintshop before the 3D printed Bearing/Lamp/Bracket, Arms, Timbers etc. are added.....

 

Steve.

 

 

 

 

[Steve Hewitt]

Back from the paint shop...

 

The first step has been to add the 3D printed Bearing/Lamp/Bracket.

These have been made by Shapeways from Les Green's drawings.

They are designed to be glued to the signal post/doll and will fit to Round, Square or Lattice items.

 

The Adlake Lamp is formed with a 0.5mm dia hole to take the Optical Fibre which I use.

The Arm Bearing has a hole of 0.45mm dia to suite my favourite Lace Pins which I use for the arm pivots.

The big advantage over using separate lamps and bearings is the precision with which the lamp aligns with the spectacles of the signals. Filing and soldering cast lamps to fit on brass brackets used to be a real pain, let alone drilling the lamps through for the fibre.

 

I have had several enquiries about the availability of these, and other Les Green 3D items I use, and I'm pleased to say Les has now opened a "Shapeways Shop" where they can be ordered by anyone who wishes to use them.

See https://www.shapeways.com/shops/railway-odds-and-ends

 

Next are the Staging Timbers.

 

Real wood, stained with Colron Dye.

 

 

Arms, Weight Bars to follow......

 

Steve.

 

 

[Clem]

Hi Steve. I felt it might be helpful to others to follow up on my early effort with a little final feedback from a rookie. The MSE LNE upper quadrant on a GN concrete post is now pretty well complete and I'm giving it 7 out of 10 for results. For learning purposes and as a bench top first experiment that figure might be a little higher. I've included a couple of photos and would include a video if I could find a way of holding the iPhone steady whilst I operate the lever frame. The signal performs exactly how I wanted it and I'm very pleased with that, but the fibre optics have been less successful. It looks as though I've made 2 rookie errors at least and it this might prevent others making the same mistakes. Firstly, I have fixed the lamp behind the signal arm just a little - perhaps 0.5mm - too far out from the post meaning that when the arm goes up, the end of the fibre optic cable is still partly behind the arm rather than being in the middle of green spectacle. Secondly when I held the iron near the end, of the fibre optic I obviously didn't linger long enough and the result was little different from the way it was before. My mistake was to then try to create the lens with a drop of super glue on the end but that only reduced the light further. So in conclusion I'm very happy with the way the signal works (thanks to following your advice and the megapoints servo control unit) but not so happy with the fibre optics.

 

I realise that It may be possible to rectify the working lamp problems but at this stage, I feel like it is more likely to go the way of Father Ted's raffle car after he found a small scratch.

 

The exercise was intended to be a proof of method for my signalling construction programme which will follow as soon as my scenic work is finished on the layout and on that basis it has been a huge success thanks in no small way to your detailed expositions and awe inspiring creations on here, Steve.  

 

Clem

 

PS we may be going to York MRS. I'll PM you if we do.

 

 

[Steve Hewitt]

Hi Clem,

 

That concrete post looks quite the part and I'm pleased you've got it working well.

 

The problems you've had with the lamp alignment were exactly the sort I referred to in my previous posting, and which prompted the development of the 3D printed Lamp/Bracket/Bearing.

 

Getting the lens to form by heating with a close iron needs a bit of practice and a steady hand. I try to get the iron to within a millimetre, but it must not touch. You will see the lens swell quite quickly. Ensure the end of the fibre is cut squarely and cleanly before heating. I use some very close cutting "end cutters".

 

I find super glue and optical fibre don't get on too well together.

I use a TINY drop behind the "lens" to hold the fibre in the lamp, and a little more to fix the end of the fibres into the LED Connector (another 3D print).

 

Where I tie wrap fibres to structures, using fine cotton thread, I use a drop to seal the knot before trimming the ends, but if it gets on the fibre itself it can cause light leakage and sometimes lead to a fracture.

 

You will get light leakage anywhere along a fibre where its surface is disturbed, scratched etc.

I overpaint such areas with Black paint, then overpaint that with White if necessary to blend in.

 

Good luck with the rest of your signal building, when the time comes.

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Arms all fixed.....

 

These two shots show the front of the signal which won't normally be seen when it is installed on "Carlise".

 

 

The more usual view:

 

 

 

 

Next will be a fairly short Round Post LMS/BR starter for Platform 8, to the right in this view:

 

 

Steve.

 

 

 

[Enterprisingwestern]

Steve, a question if I may.

Have you built any MSE LMS/BR working ground signals in stacked configuration, and, if so, are they do-able for a modeller who might as well work wearing boxing gloves?

 

Mike.

[Steve Hewitt]

Hi Mike,

 

No, I haven't used the MSE LMS G/S kit.

 

I have used the etches supplied by "Palatine Models" - part of the Manchester MRS.

Look back at my postings around January 2016 and you should find out how I went on.

 

See also http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/59687-semaphore-signals-4mm-scale-mainly/page-25&do=findComment&comment=2455045

The same etches in use for Mike Delamar's Walton-on-the-Hill.

 

Hope this helps,

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

 

Next will be a fairly short Round Post LMS/BR starter for Platform 8, to the right in this view:

 

Platform 8 Starter 2.jpg

 

Steve.

Made a start.........

 

All the metal components which can be soldered have been assembled in this shot:

A trip in the Dishwasher has got rid of all the loose debris.

 

Here is the 3D printed Bearing, Lamp & Bracket fixed in place:

All ready for the paintshop.....

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Final Assembly & Test.....

 

The completed assembly.

 

The Transport & Test Frame has been prepared.

 

The Tower Pro servo has been installed, using the same 1/2in brass tube as the signal's base to align it.

 

The signal installed and connected to the servo.

 

A 9v PP3 battery supplies the power for the LED during testing.

 

The GF Controller sets the Danger position.

 

and the Clear.....

 

I'll post a little video later.

 

 

The signal, and the previous two Rome Street Jct Up Homes are ready to start their journey to France

 

These "Really Useful Box Co" products are very useful.

 

More soon, I hope.

Steve.

 

 

 

 

 

[Veen]

Fantastic work....very very impressive.

We use Dave Fentons mega points servo controller on Blair Atholl nice random bounce

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAIh1L9vIoo&sns=em

I used both the MegaPoints Servo Controllers as well as the GF Controls Servo Controllers, on a regular basis - two different layouts.

My preference is GF Controls by far. Simple, good quality and easily and finely adjusted without having to look at the circuit board - you are free to look at the semaphore signal arm during adjustment. I find MegaPoints Controllers complicated by comparison, many repeated button presses (of small buttons), and no safe mode so the servo moves rapidly through it's range of motion during programming etc. From experience this result in damage to the semaphore signal mechanism or point tie bar. Each to his own though.

[Steve Hewitt]

Here's the little video......

 

 

Steve.

[Jon Fitness]

Superb. Nice to see an LMS corrugated arm. Very much on my "to etch" list now!

JF