Semaphore Signals - 4mm Scale (Mainly)

[Brislines]

I certainly haven't.

They are used very successfully on Liverpool Lime Street to control the two turntables and the sector plate.

I would think the difficult bit would be making the control system, particularly if you want to have variable speeds, etc.

 

Steve.

Thanks Steve,

 

Yes that does seem to be the main issue... A control system. At the moment I am looking at a lot of You Tube videos for clues!

 

   

[Steve Hewitt]

A few more steps.....

 

Here is the baseplate for the signal, complete with the turned foundation tube and the guide tube:

 

The 1/2in dia tube which will secure the signal in the baseboard is soldered in place:

 

The two dolls have been prepared from brass tube.

The finials are from Alan Gibson, the arms are MSE.

I've used a 3D printed "Lamp, Bracket and Bearing" and two cast "Shoes" on each doll:

This is a "trial fit" of the signal in its foundations, not yet fixed in place.

 

More soon.....

Steve.

 

 

[Veen]

The short video.........

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cmp0xlL0mNw

 

Steve.

Steve,

 

Elevated ground signals just brilliant - as usual. A pleasure to read up on how it's done.

Regards

John

[Mr.S.corn78]

HI Steve,

 

Great work as always and i follow with intrest.

 

Can i ask about the control side of the signal. We chatted at Warly about the GF boards that you use and I have a question if you dont mind.

 

Do you mount the control boards near the signals and then just run power and the swtich wires to them or do you mount them at the control positon and then run the wires out for the servos.

 

I have been tasked with converting a couple of signals to servos and wondering which way to do it as doing an internet search isnt turning much up.

 

Thanks

Simon

[Steve Hewitt]

Hi Simon,

 

Thanks for your comment and question.

 

The simple answer is "It's up to you, whichever is easiest."

However, here are a few guidelines:

• Ensure you have a clear view of the signal when you are adjusting the controls. (I've made the mistake on a club layout, spending time beneath a baseboard with someone shouting "Up a bit"  "Down a bit"  "No, the other way"  etc. etc.
• Some people have experienced electrical interference being picked up by extended leads between Controller and Servo. Always use "twisted" leads, and I recommend keeping them down to 2 metres in length.
• If you use very long leads between Controller and Servo, you can make your own with "Shielded twin core". Use the shield as the "Common" i.e. Black or Brown.
• To minimise the risk of interference route long leads separately to any traction feeds, particularly if using DCC.

I hope this helps, but don't hesitate to get in touch if you need any more advice.

 

Steve.

[Mr.S.corn78]

Hi Simon,

 

Thanks for your comment and question.

 

The simple answer is "It's up to you, whichever is easiest."

However, here are a few guidelines:

• Ensure you have a clear view of the signal when you are adjusting the controls. (I've made the mistake on a club layout, spending time beneath a baseboard with someone shouting "Up a bit"  "Down a bit"  "No, the other way"  etc. etc.
• Some people have experienced electrical interference being picked up by extended leads between Controller and Servo. Always use "twisted" leads, and I recommend keeping them down to 2 metres in length.
• If you use very long leads between Controller and Servo, you can make your own with "Shielded twin core". Use the shield as the "Common" i.e. Black or Brown.
• To minimise the risk of interference route long leads separately to any traction feeds, particularly if using DCC.

I hope this helps, but don't hesitate to get in touch if you need any more advice.

 

Steve.

 

Many Thanks for the info Steve,

 

The idea I was think of doing was to have the controllers in the main panel to keep then all in the one place and make adjusting them easier to do i.e. you can see them but this would mean one run would be around 3 meters long.

 

I think I will have to have a bit of a play experiment with things and go from there.

 

Thanks

Simon

[Steve Hewitt]

Completing the static bits.....

 

I've now completed the non-moving parts for this signal.

Last components to be added were the Handrails and Ladders and fixing the Baseplate assembly and main post together.

 

Here are a few pics with the assembly ready for a clean and trip to the paintshop:

 

 

 

More in a little while, when all the moving parts are ready for assembly.....

 

Steve.

 

 

[Jon Fitness]

Lovely work Steve, I do like a standard LMS tubular post bracket signal!

[Enterprisingwestern]

HI Steve,

 

Great work as always and i follow with intrest.

 

Can i ask about the control side of the signal. We chatted at Warly about the GF boards that you use and I have a question if you dont mind.

 

Do you mount the control boards near the signals and then just run power and the swtich wires to them or do you mount them at the control positon and then run the wires out for the servos.

 

I have been tasked with converting a couple of signals to servos and wondering which way to do it as doing an internet search isnt turning much up.

 

Thanks

Simon

 

 

Hi Simon,

 

Thanks for your comment and question.

 

The simple answer is "It's up to you, whichever is easiest."

However, here are a few guidelines:

• Ensure you have a clear view of the signal when you are adjusting the controls. (I've made the mistake on a club layout, spending time beneath a baseboard with someone shouting "Up a bit"  "Down a bit"  "No, the other way"  etc. etc.
• Some people have experienced electrical interference being picked up by extended leads between Controller and Servo. Always use "twisted" leads, and I recommend keeping them down to 2 metres in length.
• If you use very long leads between Controller and Servo, you can make your own with "Shielded twin core". Use the shield as the "Common" i.e. Black or Brown.
• To minimise the risk of interference route long leads separately to any traction feeds, particularly if using DCC.

I hope this helps, but don't hesitate to get in touch if you need any more advice.

 

Steve.

 

 

Many Thanks for the info Steve,

 

The idea I was think of doing was to have the controllers in the main panel to keep then all in the one place and make adjusting them easier to do i.e. you can see them but this would mean one run would be around 3 meters long.

 

I think I will have to have a bit of a play experiment with things and go from there.

 

Thanks

Simon

 

As a slight, relevant, aside, I use a similar one of these for initial setting up and centreing of the servo, IMHO, a lot simpler than trying to do it via my (megapoints) controller, and I would assume simpler than on the GF controller. Gets you to the default centre position a lot easier.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adjustment-Steering-Gear-Tester-CCPM-3-Mode-ESC-Servo-Motor-for-RC-Helicopter-Xy/183250589427?hash=item2aaa9616f3:g:eYAAAOSwho1aqg1N

 

Mike.

[Steve Hewitt]

As a slight, relevant, aside, I use a similar one of these for initial setting up and centreing of the servo, IMHO, a lot simpler than trying to do it via my (megapoints) controller, and I would assume simpler than on the GF controller. Gets you to the default centre position a lot easier.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adjustment-Steering-Gear-Tester-CCPM-3-Mode-ESC-Servo-Motor-for-RC-Helicopter-Xy/183250589427?hash=item2aaa9616f3:g:eYAAAOSwho1aqg1N

 

Mike.

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for the link.

 

I'm afraid I can't agree about the easiest way to Centre a servo.

The GF Controller has a switch which does exactly that.

The centre position of the servos is also called the "Safe" position, and I use it during set-up to position each semaphore arm to a mid-position.

 

 

The various functions of the GF Controller are selected using these four "dip switches".

In this photo, Bounce has been switched ON for both servos.

Safe has also been switched ON, which will ensure both servoes are at the Centre position and locked there.

Moving the Safe switch to OFF will then allow bother servoes to be adjusted and operated.

The Invert switch is OFF meaning the logic for control switches is "Closed switch means Danger."

When the Invert is set to ON, the logic for the control switches is "Closed switch means Clear".

 

A few months ago I made this video:

It tries to explain how easy the GF Controllers are to use.

 

Hoping this helpful,

Steve.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Apolgies Steve, you have the obvious advantage over me on the GF boards, looks like a useful setting to have.

 

Mike.

[Michael Edge]

These GF boards are very easy to install and set up, the invert switch means that I can now use conventional signal logic instead of the previous (crazy) break of circuit putting them to clear instead of danger.

[Steve Hewitt]

Stock-piling arms......

 

I usually make signal arms in batches, can be tedious, repetitive work but spread over several days as things dry etc. its quite enjoyable.

Here is the current batch almost ready for use.

 

There would have been more, but I had forgotten how few Chiltern decals I had left  

 

Steve.

 

[St Enodoc]

Stock-piling arms......

 

I usually make signal arms in batches, can be tedious, repetitive work but spread over several days as things dry etc. its quite enjoyable.

Here is the current batch almost ready for use.

 

20180605_164424.jpg

There would have been more, but I had forgotten how few Chiltern decals I had left  

 

Steve.

I've got some Chiltern decals, which I intend to use on my next batch of signals. Up to now I have cut strips from Modelmaster transfer sheets to make the stripes. A bit tricky for distants though.

[Steve Hewitt]

Here's the completed model............

 

 

In this shot you can see the "Rocking Shaft" used to transfer the Pull of the Signal Wire from the Main Post to the Doll:

 

You can also see the lamp man's staging made from stained strip wood from North Eastern Lumber.

 

The Rocking Shaft is 0.5mm N/S.

Its bearings are 7mm scale "medium handrail knobs" bushed down to 0.5mm dia with brass tube.

 

Because the left hand signal is not working, it isn't connected to a pull wire on the main post:

 

The left hand crank is not attached to any Rocking Shaft, its just allows that for the one working arm to rotate freely within itself.

 

A rear view:

Here you can see the optical fibres used to carry the light of the "Gas Light" LED up to the lamps.

 

And with the lamps lit:

 

I hope to put a video together shortly......

Steve.

 

 

 

 

 

[St Enodoc]

Here's the completed model............

 

P1030310.JPG

 

In this shot you can see the "Rocking Shaft" used to transfer the Pull of the Signal Wire from the Main Post to the Doll:

P1030311.JPG

 

You can also see the lamp man's staging made from stained strip wood from North Eastern Lumber.

 

The Rocking Shaft is 0.5mm N/S.

Its bearings are 7mm scale "medium handrail knobs" bushed down to 0.5mm dia with brass tube.

 

Because the left hand signal is not working, it isn't connected to a pull wire on the main post:

P1030312.JPG

 

The left hand crank is not attached to any Rocking Shaft, its just allows that for the one working arm to rotate freely within itself.

P1030313.JPG

 

A rear view:

P1030317.JPG

Here you can see the optical fibres used to carry the light of the "Gas Light" LED up to the lamps.

 

And with the lamps lit:

P1030319.JPG

 

I hope to put a video together shortly......

Steve.

Very nice. Surely you're going to fit a dummy pull rod and weight bar?????

[Steve Hewitt]

Sorry to disappoint.......

 

The signal will be located quite near to the edge of the layout, up against a wall, I believe.

(That's why the left arm is not working, the line it controls is extremely short)

 

Consequently, the lack of a second weight bar and pull wire will not be clearly seen if at all.

 

For a similar reason, signals controlling routes which "come out of the wall" are not lit - nobody can see the lights.

 

Thanks for your close interest.

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Carlisle - Moving North to Denton Holme South Jct..........

 

The next signal is seen here:

 

There were a large number of companies involved in the development of the railways around Carlisle.

The Settle to Carlisle line being very well known, it was the work of the Midland Railway.

This signal is very much a Midland product, so it is probably on a route developed by that company.

 

It is a Fixed Distant signal and still retains all its lower quadrant features.

 

I'm basing the model largely on a MSE kit, but with a few changes as usual.

I've started by collecting together most of the main components, and sub-assemblies:

 

 

I've decided to use a 3D printed main post instead of the cast one supplied.

This will allow me to  easily route the optical fibre for the light inside the post.

Having cut the post to the correct length, I've turned the base to produce a spigot which will allow it to be planted in the turned brass foundation seen to its left.

 

 

Adjacent is the baseplate and the 1/2 in diameter brass tube which will be used to mount the signal on the baseboard.

 

Using a four-jaw chuck, I've turned the finial spigot to fit the top of the post. This has also squared up the base of the finial.

 

 

In this picture you can also see the distant arm assembled from some five etched components.

 

The lamp bracket will be glued to the post, and its joint strengthened by the lace pin.

The lamp casting was drilled through 0.5mm for the optical fibre, then the base of the lamp casting was also turned to ensure its squareness before soldering it to its bracket.

 

The ladder etch has been improved and strengthened by the addition of 0.4mm N/S wires to the stiles.

 

Next steps will be assembly of the main structure, painting and then final assembly and installation of the LED.

 

Steve.

 

 

[Compound2632]

The Dentonholme goods lines were originally under the control of the Goods Traffic Committee: Caledonian, G&SW, L&NW and Midland joint, and along with the Dentonholme Joint Committee lines (G&SW, Midland and NB joint) the Midland had responsibility for signalling (or possibly only the Dentonholme Cttee lines). Bridge numbering continued in the Midland (S&C) sequence and I think also the mileposts - I cant find the reference or give the number but I believe the highest mileage on a post in Britain was on a Midland-style post on these lines, giving the mileage by the shortest (Midland) route from St Pancras - well over 300 miles.

 

I prepare to stand corrected and educated!

Edited June 19, 2018 by Compound2632

[Steve Hewitt]

Thanks Stephen, very informative indeed.

Steve.

[Enterprisingwestern]

Question time again Steve, apologies.

I've taken a brave pill and am knocking together a couple of MSE LMS tubular signals.

The spectacle glasses have been "glazed" with Glue n Glaze, have you ever done it this way and if so how did you colour the glasses?

 

TIA.

Mike.

[Steve Hewitt]

Question time again Steve, apologies.

I've taken a brave pill and am knocking together a couple of MSE LMS tubular signals.

The spectacle glasses have been "glazed" with Glue n Glaze, have you ever done it this way and if so how did you colour the glasses?

 

TIA.

Mike.

Hi Mike,

 

Yes, I have and quite successfully.

A few years ago I bought some "Transparent Glass Paint" in a craft shop.

This will do the trick.

I use a Red, Yellow and Turquoise colour as appropriate.

 

My preferred method, however, is to use MSE's lens material.

I punch discs to an appropriate size with a leather punch - sizes from 2mm to 4.5mm dia in 0.5mm increments.

I glue this to the rear of the aperture with either superglue or Clear Fix or anything else which will dry clear.

Finally, once everything is dry, I add a drop of Clear Fix to the front of the lens to reinforce it.

I now also add a drop of Yellow Glass Paint to Distant aspects as I think the colour of the MSE material is a bit weak.

 

Hope this is helpful,

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Carlisle - Moving North to Denton Holme South Jct..........

 

The next signal is seen here:

Dentonholme branch fixed distant Cropped.jpg

.-

.-

.-

Next steps will be assembly of the main structure, painting and then final assembly and installation of the LED.

 

Steve.

Assembly.......

 

I always prefer to use solder when assembling my signals, but when using 3D printed parts this is not possible.

 

However, making as many sub-assemblies of the metal parts helps somewhat:

 

I first assembled the signal's foundations:

and secured the post with a spot of cyano.

 

This is the lampman's platform.

 

The lamp and bracket I assembled earlier.

The position of the main axle was drilled 0.7mm.

Using this to position the arm, I was then able to locate the lamp correctly.

 

The tiny plates which are fixed to the front and rear of the post to secure the axle were also added:

 

The ladder came next, glued to the post and soldered to the baseplate:

 

Just above the top ladder fixing you can just make out a short length of brass tube.

This is 0.5mm OD and 0.3mm ID and will help to secure the handrail of the lampman's platform.

(I'm doubtful that 0.3mm N/S wire glued to the post would be strong enough joint)

 

Last addition for now was the Finial:

 

The arm and platform will not be added until everything has been painted  

But that won't be for some time as my caravan is calling.....  

 

I'll probably not do any painting until I've got a few more Carlisle signals to a similar condition.......

 

Steve.

 

Edited June 20, 2018 by Steve Hewitt

[Jon Fitness]

Looks superb as usual Steve. Those Midland signals always seem a bit strange with the fixed axle and bearing in the signal arm itself..

JF

[Steve Hewitt]

Thanks Jon,

 

The strangest part for me is the Back Blinder.

It being fixed to the rear of the arm, passing between the lamp and post before the blinder itself can obscure the rear of the lamp when the signal is lowered.

Consequently it can also act as an arm stop if it touches both the lamp bracket (at Danger) and the post (at Clear).

Very fiddly in 4mm when it also has to clear the optical fibre at the rear of the lamp.

I've previously had to extend the length of the blinder to make it reach.

 

Steve.