RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 30, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 30, 2018 Yellow 'arm' ground discs (and yellow miniature arm semaphores) can be passed at danger when the points to which they apply are set towards a route to which the signal does not apply when it is off. Put more simply it means the signal can be passed at danger if, in most cases, the points to which it applies are set towards a spur or headshunt and are not set towards another line (which usually means a running line). Hence you only find (or should only find) yellow arm discs and miniature semaphores at locations where they read from sidings towards a running line, or signalled line) and there is an alternative route towards a spur or headshunt. They were not used by the GWR but all the other members of the 'Big four' adopted then after they were introduced in the inter-war period, the Western Region only adopted them (in new work and some renewals) from January 1950. They could of course be found in multi-arm/disc arrangements as well, I have a picture of a three 'arm' LMS pattern ground disc with yellow arms and have seen - a long time ago - miniature semaphores with at least 4 arms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 (edited) Yellow 'arm' ground discs (and yellow miniature arm semaphores) can be passed at danger when the points to which they apply are set towards a route to which the signal does not apply when it is off. Put more simply it means the signal can be passed at danger if, in most cases, the points to which it applies are set towards a spur or headshunt and are not set towards another line (which usually means a running line). Hence you only find (or should only find) yellow arm discs and miniature semaphores at locations where they read from sidings towards a running line, or signalled line) and there is an alternative route towards a spur or headshunt. They were not used by the GWR but all the other members of the 'Big four' adopted then after they were introduced in the inter-war period, the Western Region only adopted them (in new work and some renewals) from January 1950. They could of course be found in multi-arm/disc arrangements as well, I have a picture of a three 'arm' LMS pattern ground disc with yellow arms and have seen - a long time ago - miniature semaphores with at least 4 arms. Whilst i agree with the quoted text there was always something to buck the trend.. I don't like these arrangements but here they are... Edited September 30, 2018 by LNERGE Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium iands Posted September 30, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 30, 2018 (edited) Whilst i agree with the quoted text there was always something to buck the trend.. I don't like these arrangements but here they are...Hitchin South centre extract.JPGA copy of the 'box instructions' would have been useful to clearly understand the functioning of the disc signals, but I'm sure they're long gone by now. Edited to clear up my ham-fistedness this afternoon. Edited yet again as I've just realised what time it is! Edited September 30, 2018 by iands Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted September 30, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 30, 2018 Whilst i agree with the quoted text there was always something to buck the trend.. I don't like these arrangements but here they are... Hitchin South centre extract.JPG Interesting interpretation there (among various unusual things which could be found the southern part of the GN mainline). 39, and more particularly 31, look to be rather oddly sited although their function is perfectly clear and there might have been a good reason for siting them in that way. And strangely they reproduce exactly the use of white light discs on the (G)WR. 17 is a bit more peculiar and it would be interesting to see the signal(s) in rear of it to see how something could get to it in the first place? Or was it to deal with something which had set back past 30 towards 39? Overall it presumably reflects some sort of locking constraint? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 Interesting interpretation there (among various unusual things which could be found the southern part of the GN mainline). 39, and more particularly 31, look to be rather oddly sited although their function is perfectly clear and there might have been a good reason for siting them in that way. And strangely they reproduce exactly the use of white light discs on the (G)WR. 17 is a bit more peculiar and it would be interesting to see the signal(s) in rear of it to see how something could get to it in the first place? Or was it to deal with something which had set back past 30 towards 39? Overall it presumably reflects some sort of locking constraint? Here is the whole thing.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted October 7, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 7, 2018 Keswick No 2 Box: Making a start........ By building the signals as a batch I hope to make the process more efficient. I started by making all the similar components in mini-batches, so I collected together a kit of parts for each signal. These were then assembled in turn, up to the point where they are ready for the paintshop. None of the signals has its Arm Bearing/Lamp/Bracket at this stage. Much easier to add after the painting. First signal, Platform 1 Down Starter 2-2: LMS/BR Round Post with elevated Weight Bar. Ladders to front and rear. See the prototype pictures on my earlier post. Second signal, Down Goods Starter 2-5: LMS Welded Stem bracket with single doll. Details of the Rocking Shaft. More details of the structure. Once the handrail stanchions have been adjusted, and the whole thing tidied up, cleaned and polished, it'll be ready to paint. More soon........... Steve. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Michael Edge Posted October 8, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 8, 2018 Latest (and probably last) batch of signals now installed on Carlisle. These are all for the goods avoiding lines, some of them are purely cosmetic as the Canal and Dentonholme branches just go into the wall, none of the distants work as they were all fixed in our era. These are the elevated ground discs at Rome Street junction, the only ones on the layout which actually work. I think they were elevated like this so that the signalman could see them from his perch high above the road bridge - certainly it didn't improve sighting for the engine crew. The left hand disc is for the crossover, the other one for the sidings, these used to go to the old gasworks but were cut back to serve the Metal Box factory. The junction in the foreground is the non-working Canal branch. Photo shows that the LH disc still needs some adjustment. Same signal looking the other way, non-prototypical factory building plonked here for now. Dentonholme South down home just past the first bridge over the Caldew, only the RH arm works on this one. Dentonholme South junction, all these signals are non-working, the branch doesn't go anywhere on the layout. The fixed distant nearest the camera is far too close to the bridge but we seem to have lost some space here before the goods shed - unlike the station area the goods lines are not exactly to scale, even at this size the room wasn't quite big enough... Looking back to Nelson bridge past the small MR signal cabin - Dentonholme was a Midland Railway yard. Dentonholme North has two working signals, I was slightly worried about fitting the bracket in with its stay wire but there was just enough room here. 17 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted October 8, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2018 Hi Mike, Thanks for posting the pictures. If you still need the Banner Repeater, please send me dimensions. Most important is distance from where I can fit a crank to drop the operating wire down, to the centre line of the Banner. Like last time, I'll build it on a mini "plank" so it can be easily mounted on the existing bracket. Might you get a chance to take some video of the railway in use, with the signals being worked? Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted October 8, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted October 8, 2018 Keswick No 2 Box, continued............. The third signal is the Platform 3 or Loop Down Starter. Lever number 13. Quite a standard LMS/BR round post with its arm at 20ft above rail height. Again the Arm Bearing, Lamp etc. will be added after painting. The final signal in this batch is the Up Home. This is another LMS/BR round post signal. In this case it is a Balanced Bracket controlling access to Platforms 2 & 3/Loop. Both the arms are Slotted between the two Boxes, as were the Down Homes built last year. Since the photos were taken they have all been fettled, had a ride in the Dishwasher and a bath in cellulose thinners ready for the Paintshop. More in a little while, I hope..... Steve. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted October 12, 2018 Share Posted October 12, 2018 Fantastic work as always Steve! Love the balanced bracket. Nice and characterful. JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted November 1, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 1, 2018 Back from the Paintshop............... All the signals are now painted, fibre optics in place and the moving parts fitted. They have not yet been installed on their "Transport & Test" frame, when they will be connected to their servo motors. Platform 1 Starter (signal 2-2): round post with elevated weight bar, front and rear ladders. Down Goods Starter (signal 2-5): LMS welded post bracket with one doll. The "Gaslight" LED is battery driven for now. Rocking shaft to transfer wire pull across to the Doll. Shaft bearings are 7mm handrail knobs. 0.5mm dia. Optical Fibre passes through the signal lamp. Giving a good dim oil lamp glow. Platform 3/Loop Down Starter (signal 2-13): "Standard" LMS round post signal. The sharp bend in the optical fibre creates the "Backlight" The 3D printed "Bearing, Lamp and Bracket" can just about be made out in this shot. Up Home (signal 2-23,24): LMS round post balanced bracket with two dolls. Two rocking shafts are required. These two signals are slotted, requiring both Box 1 and Box 2 to reverse their levers for a signal to then show clear. The combination of multiple weight bars and weights tries to simulate this. This shows the two operating wires terminated in 1/16in tube for coupling to the servo horns. These last two shots show the simulated slotting more clearly. I'll post some details of the Transport & Test frame, servo mounting etc. shortly....... Steve. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veen Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Looking great Steve, beautiful work as always. Cannot wait to get them installed on the layout. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted November 4, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 4, 2018 Looking great Steve, beautiful work as always. Cannot wait to get them installed on the layout. John Thanks John, Will you get to the Newcastle show next weekend? I'll be operating on Liverpool Lime Street and can hand them over to you then. Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted November 4, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 4, 2018 Back from the Paintshop............... All the signals are now painted, fibre optics in place and the moving parts fitted. They have not yet been installed on their "Transport & Test" frame, when they will be connected to their servo motors. - - - I'll post some details of the Transport & Test frame, servo mounting etc. shortly....... Steve. But first, the four Ground Signals......... There are three LNWR ground signals, two "Yellow" and one "Red" as discussed earlier: Each of these is made from a 3D printed body, with N/S etched arm, Weight and Blinder. The single LMS/BR signal is made from a "Pennine" N/S etch. These are produced by a group within the Manchester MRS. Each ground signal is lit by my usual method, "Gaslight" LED below the baseboard, with 0,5mm Optical Fibre to create the Lamp. More soon....... Steve. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Welly Posted November 4, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 4, 2018 ^^^ Need an rating icon for "F--- me! That's tiny!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veen Posted November 4, 2018 Share Posted November 4, 2018 Thanks John, Will you get to the Newcastle show next weekend? I'll be operating on Liverpool Lime Street and can hand them over to you then. Steve. Hi Steve, Yes I will pop in to the show either Saturday afternoon or Sunday. Ground signals looking very good too and unusual with the "pass at danger" yellows. Thanks again John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted November 14, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 14, 2018 Sad News... Followers of my topic will know that I exclusively use GF Controls servo controllers for all my signals. I'm sorry to report that the "F" in GF, Frank Jones, passed away in the early hours of this morning. Rest in peace Frank, you'll be sadly missed. Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted November 15, 2018 Share Posted November 15, 2018 Sad news indeed. Sorry to hear that. JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted November 22, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2018 Not demonstrating this year.............. Rob and I will not be demonstrating "Semaphore Signal Construction & Operation" at the Warley show this year, but we will both be operating Liverpool Lime Street. If you get to the show, come along and say "Hello". Steve. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted November 24, 2018 Share Posted November 24, 2018 Good luck with the operating! I think your signals on Lime Street will be a good demonstration of your unsurpassed skills! JF (Glasshopper!) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veen Posted November 30, 2018 Share Posted November 30, 2018 Sad News... Followers of my topic will know that I exclusively use GF Controls servo controllers for all my signals. I'm sorry to report that the "F" in GF, Frank Jones, passed away in the early hours of this morning. Rest in peace Frank, you'll be sadly missed. Steve. Steve, So sorry to hear that Frank has passed away. Thanks for letting me know via your post. Nice to see you again at Newcastle. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted December 19, 2018 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted December 19, 2018 But first, the four Ground Signals......... There are three LNWR ground signals, two "Yellow" and one "Red" as discussed earlier: P1030673crop.jpg P1030674crop.jpg Each of these is made from a 3D printed body, with N/S etched arm, Weight and Blinder. P1030683crop.jpg P1030684crop.jpg The single LMS/BR signal is made from a "Pennine" N/S etch. These are produced by a group within the Manchester MRS. P1030688crop.jpg P1030689crop.jpg P1030690crop.jpg Each ground signal is lit by my usual method, "Gaslight" LED below the baseboard, with 0,5mm Optical Fibre to create the Lamp. More soon....... Steve. Here's a little video of the Keswick Box 2 signals....... Merry Christmas to all my RMweb friends. Steve. 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted February 23, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted February 23, 2019 Sorry its been so long............ Happy New Year! Actually been two months since I posted on this Topic but I haven't been completely idle. I have been making slow but steady process on a batch of four GWR signals for a fictitious urban terminus which is set firmly in the "Square Post" era. I'm afraid I don't have any "Work In Progress" pictures of the first two signals, but I took advantage of the recent warm weather to take the following shots of the finished items: I apologise for the lack of sharpness, but I'm still getting used to my new phone Steve. 8 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 Lovely! I may not be a great fan of the GW but they turned out some fine looking signals! 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Steve Hewitt Posted March 14, 2019 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2019 And here's another one.......... This is the third of four signals I'm building for the Urban GW Terminus: This controls the approach to Platform 2. These close up shots are a bit cruel. The LED/Fibre Optic lighting. You can just about make out the cranks - a scale 6". I hope to show a short video of the signal on test shortly............... Steve. 6 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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