Semaphore Signals - 4mm Scale (Mainly)

[Steve Hewitt]

I know they shouldn't twitch but occasionally, a loco with poor or dirty pickups will make it's presence felt via the wiring for the servos! There's a couple on our layout that twitched when certain locos went past. I changed the servos, no difference, swapped the driver boards, no difference. I had to move the wiring to the other side of the baseboard to make any difference...

Jon F

Geoff Peters, of GF Controls recommends using a shielded cable between a Controller and its Servos if the distance is large, or interferance from other Layout Circuits is likely.  I understand this can be particularly so with DCC systems.

 

My personal experience of "twitching" servos is limitted to the Power On twitch.

I've never had a servo twitch during normal operation

 

Steve.

[Grovenor]

I understand this can be particularly so with DCC systems.

Our experience in MERG is the opposite, all of the reported twitching (except power on) has been with DC layouts and related to specific locos as Jon describes.

Regards

Keith

[Steve Hewitt]

Isn't it great to have such helpful friends.....

 

Those who have been following my signal topics or the Lime Street Station story on RMweb will be familiar with Les Green's name.

We've recently been working together on the LNWR Ground Sgnals using 3D Printing and Etched N/S. (See their own topic on RMweb)

 

At the same time, Les has produced some really excellent etches to help me out with a part of signal building I often struggle with. Namely, scratch building the Angle Iron Brackets so common on many semaphore signals.

 

This is one of a pair of etched sheets of N/S I received from him last week.

This 0.2mm thick sheet contains several items for the Ground Signals and three designs of Angle Iron Bracket.

 

This first one is required for the batch of North British bracket signals I'm building for the Carlisle project:

 

This is the one missing in the shot above:

 

And when its been carefully folded and reinforced with solder:

 

The next one is for an LMS No 5 Bracket:

Commonly used on bracket signals with two dolls spaced for adjacent lines.

 

The etch:

 

Being folded in my "Hold & Fold" - a really useful Christmas present a year or two back.

 

Folded and solderup for strength:

 

Finally for now, the smaller and simpler bracket common on two doll brackets for diverging routes:

 

 

 

With these to hand I can make rapid progress....

 

Steve.

[Jon Fitness]

Excellent idea, these are just the sort of things missing from the model signal accessory traders. Good work all round!

JF

[Steve Hewitt]

Here we are then....Back to the Carlisle project.

 

 

I've made a start on this batch of four signals.

Working from an MSE etch, I've made up all the arms, balance arms and their bearings etc.

 

The first signal structure is the tall lattice post, with the arm mounted some way below the top.

 

...............Snipped..............

 

 

That's about as far as I'm taking this signal for now.

I'll be making up the three bracket signals to a similar state before they are all sent to the paint shop.

 

Steve.

 

Progress has been made:

 

The batch of four signals I started on has now become five with the addition of a Fixed Distant on a short lattice post.

 

Here they all are, ready for the paintshop:

 

A good scrub and polish, then a bath in cellulose thinners before several THIN coats of Halfords White Primer.

 

More soon I hope.

 

Steve.

Edited January 29, 2014 by SteveAtBax

[Steve Hewitt]

An experimental diversion…..

 

One of the tasks which often causes me some anguish is painting signal arms.

Stop signals aren’t too bad, but Distants can be a right pain.

 

I recently purchased a set of waterslide transfers from Chiltern Modelling Solutions which are intended for use on MSE and Scalelink signal arms.

 

Transfers are provided for the front and rear of a dozen of each type on a single sheet, together with a few others for miniature arms, calling on signals and ground discs.

 

 

I started by painting the arms with Halfords white primer.

The spectacles were painted black and everything allowed to dry thoroughly.

 

The spectacles were glazed with MSE glazing, then the white parts given a thin coat of clear gloss varnish.

 

Following the instructions provided, I applied the transfers to one Home and one Distant signal arm.

 

Once they had dried I had to touch in the edges of each arm with Red, Yellow and Black as appropriate.

 

Juist a thin coat of clear satin varnish needed now to seal everything.

 

I think there may be a future in this method, and I’ll certainly be using it again for Upper Quadrant distants.

 

Shame there don’t seem to be any available for GWR arms!

I have a three doll splitting distant to do sometime soon.

 

Steve.

 

 

[Barry O]

Steve

 

the etches look really good and very helpful. 

Have you tried using pva for the signal lens?

 

I have some I did years ago and they are still OK 

 

barry O

[Steve Hewitt]

Hi Barry,

 

Yes, I used to use PVA or one of the proprietory glazing fluids, but colouring was always the problem.

 

Using a good leather punch with a rotary head for choice of six sizes, produces lenses very accurately and quickly.

Once the spectacle paint has dried properly, I attach the lens on the rear with a small drop of Super Glue.

 

Steve.

[Jon Fitness]

An experimental diversion…..

 

One of the tasks which often causes me some anguish is painting signal arms.

Stop signals aren’t too bad, but Distants can be a right pain.

 

I recently purchased a set of waterslide transfers from Chiltern Modelling Solutions which are intended for use on MSE and Scalelink signal arms.

 

Transfers are provided for the front and rear of a dozen of each type on a single sheet, together with a few others for miniature arms, calling on signals and ground discs.

 

 

I started by painting the arms with Halfords white primer.

The spectacles were painted black and everything allowed to dry thoroughly.

 

The spectacles were glazed with MSE glazing, then the white parts given a thin coat of clear gloss varnish.

 

Following the instructions provided, I applied the transfers to one Home and one Distant signal arm.

P1000708.jpg P1000704.jpg P1000707.jpg

 

Once they had dried I had to touch in the edges of each arm with Red, Yellow and Black as appropriate.

P1000710.jpg P1000706.jpg

 

Just a thin coat of clear satin varnish needed now to seal everything.

 

I think there may be a future in this method, and I’ll certainly be using it again for Upper Quadrant distants.

 

Shame there don’t seem to be any available for GWR arms!

I have a three doll splitting distant to do sometime soon.

 

Steve.

I'm loving those transfers! Distant signals inparticular are always a pain to do and those look like they have bolts and flanges printed on too! I'll have to check them out and see if they do 7mm ones as well. Do you have a link?

As always, excellent work Steve.

JF

Edited February 8, 2014 by Jon Fitness

[Steve Hewitt]

I'm loving those transfers! Distant signals inparticular are always a pain to do and those look like they have bolts and flanges printed on too! I'll have to check them out and see if they do 7mm ones as well. Do you have a link?

As always, excellent work Steve.

JF

Hi Jon,

 

Thanks for your comment.

I believe the Transfers are actually photographs of prototype signals, which is why the extra details are present.

The "folded edge" seen on the reverse of the Distant is just printed!

Each of the transfers in the set of twelve seems to be of a different prototype, with subtle differences in weathering apparent.

 

Steve.

[Grovenor]

I recently purchased a set of waterslide transfers from Chiltern Modelling Solutions which are intended for use on MSE and Scalelink signal arms.

Those transfers do look good, how do we contact these people? Google did not find them for me, Chiltern is rather a common name.

Thanks

Keith.

[Joe MCMLXI]

Hi Keith, are these the ones?

 

http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Products/Signal_Transfers/Dapol_signal_transfers.html

 

regards

 

joe

[LNERGE]

Hi Keith, are these the ones?

 

http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Products/Signal_Transfers/Dapol_signal_transfers.html

 

regards

 

joe

The ones in the link appear to have five bolts all the same whereas the one in Steve's picture has the large cast washer on the centre bolt. This type is region specific.

[LNERGE]

The type with the large cast washer on the centre bolt tends to be a Midland Region theme..

 

[Jon Fitness]

http://www.hall-royd-junction.co.uk/Products/Signal_Transfers/MSE_signal_transfers.html is the link to the etched arms as the above link is to the Dapol arms (and boy do they need improving!)

 

I'm hoping for a 7mm scale version meself!

 

JF

[Grovenor]

Thanks, order has gone in.

Keith

[Steve Hewitt]

Those transfers do look good, how do we contact these people? Google did not find them for me, Chiltern is rather a common name.

Thanks

Keith.

Hi Keith,

I think others have beaten me to it!

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Progress has been made:

 

The batch of four signals I started on has now become five with the addition of a Fixed Distant on a short lattice post.

 

Here they all are, ready for the paintshop:

P1000703.jpg

 

A good scrub and polish, then a bath in cellulose thinners before several THIN coats of Halfords White Primer.

 

More soon I hope.

 

Steve.

Doesn't time fly when you're.........

Its more than two months since I reported any progress on this project, for which I apologise.

 

The signals are now almost complete, so here is the latest state:

 

This shows them on the bench installed in the "Transport & Test" frame.

They are connected up to a GF Controls new 8-Way Controller.

Although there are 8 arms on the models, only five are operational.

The Distant is "Fixed" as in the prototype.

The two smaller brackets only have the right hand arm working, as the route signalled to the left doesn't extend beyond the pointwork on the model, so it can never be set.

 

I've made this short video of me setting up the servos, which I hope explains how it all works.

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Next will be another signal for Woodford Halse...

 

Actually, it will be a pair to the same design, based on this photo:

 

I'll probably use MSE etches and castings for the bracket work and dolls.

The wooden main post will be from square brass, and I'll use Gibson arms and weight bars.

 

I'm hoping to use some 3D printed components for part of build.

Les Green and I have been working on this, but as yet its all in his computer...............

 

Steve.

[LNERGE]

Walk past the site of this signal and keep heading south. There is a stem and flitch still extant.

 

Edit.. Image lifted from Google Streetview. Looking North from Br501 I believe this was Culworth Junction's up distant though i do stand to be corrected.

 

 

http://www.flickr.com/photos/97686289@N08/11243217103/in/photolist-i8wqJK-bnufFY-8BCqb5-bnuoDh-azaJqP

Edited March 12, 2014 by LNERGE

[Steve Hewitt]

What a wonderful find!

The next picture along in the Flickr link you provided contains exactly what I'm going to attempt to build.

Unfortunately, I've never visited this area, so I'm not familiar with the locations or geography.

 

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Making a start.....

 

As usual, I've started with a few components and sub-assemblies:

 

The Weight Bars:

This is for the Branch signal and will be on the left of the main post.

 

These two Weight Bars are for the main route, will be located on the right of the main post and will operate the Home and Distant.

The "Slotting" is simulated with the two weights on the one bar.

In reality these would be arranged to that the Distant would clear only when both Home and Distant levers have been pulled.

In my case this will be achieved electrically, by the switching of the servo motor controllers.

 

The eagle eyed amongst you will have noticed they have been assembled the wrong way round for these photos.

i.e. the connections for the operating wires should be on the opposite side of the pivots.

Easy to swop around when assembling on the model....

 

More later,

Steve.

Edited March 23, 2014 by SteveAtBax

[Steve Hewitt]

A few more bits.....

 

First the two dolls:

These are cast items from MSE with the brackets added for the operating cranks for the Branch arm.

 

The main "Wooden" post will be made from Brass Tube.

The size is determined by the MSE etches for the bracket work, which give a dimension of 14 inches square.

The short length of square tube is the "socket" into which the Branch Doll will locate.

 

I always like to locate the dolls securely, and have made sockets of the correct size by sleeving the Main Tube.

Here the end of the Main Post has been sleeved down and the end squared off on the lathe.

 

I've also made up a length of suitable ladder, again from MSE etch.

The ladder stiles have been strengthened with 0.4mm dia N/S wire and the edges carefully filed flat.

 

More to come.....

Steve.

[Steve Hewitt]

Making the foundations....

 

Those who have followed my thread will know I like to have strong foundations for my signals.

The base plate, on which the signal stands, is in turn built on a "Foundation Tube" which locates the signal in the baseboard, and ensures the servo motors that will operate the signal are accurately aligned.

 

Starting with Baseplate, it is marked out on 0.45mm Nickel Silver sheet and the various holes drilled:

 

A fine piercing saw separates it:

 

The signal's Main Post will be square brass tube, with an internal size of 4.0mm.

To ensure it will stand vertically on the base plate I have turned up a short (15mm long) post with an 8mm dia flange.

This flange ensures the post is vertical when soldered into the baseplate.

It is also drilled through 3.2mm dia to allow the fibre optic cables for the lights to pass through.

 

Located in the baseplate, liquid flux and a slug of solder added:

 

A quick blast with the blow torch and its all true and secure:

 

The three 1.6mm dia holes are for the "guide tubes" in which the operating wires will eventually run:

These Brass tubes are inserted, soldered in place and cut to length:

 

Because the guide tubes are only located and secured in the 0.45mm thick N/S plate, they are tied together with a length of off-cut etch to give them mutual support:

 

Finally the Foundation Tube" is cut from 5/8in dia Brass tube to a length of 25mm:

 

The ends are faced off in the lathe to ensure squareness, and positioned on the Baseplate, fluxed and solder slug in place:

 

The trusty Blow Torch makes the joint in a couple seconds:

 

We'll soon be able to start building the signal......

Steve.

 

[Steve Hewitt]

Lets make a start .......

 

Using the bracket from an MSE etch and the square brass main post prepared earlier, the parts are positioned using a square block and a guide line scribed on the surface of the work board.

Pre-tinning the mating surfaces, liquid flux and a hot iron with a little extra solder soon makes a good joint.

 

The second side is attached in a similar way.

 

One of the aids I use regularly to keep things square is this block of MDF with various holes and pegs fitted to it.

If this case I'm using some 1/8th dia silver steel to hold the "socket" for the Branch Doll in the correct position whilst the etched bracket sides are attached.

 

The trussing on the underside of the bracket comes as a flat etch.

When in position it also gives the "angle iron" section to the lower member of each bracket side.

 

I use a heavy brass bar to roll a curve into the etch.

This makes it much easier to get a good fit.

 

 

Next we have the Staging.

The hole for the Branch Doll has been cut with a piercing saw.

(The off-cut will be used later to reduce the size of the original etched hole, which is designed, I think, to enable right or left handed brackets to be built.)

 

The holes for the handrail stanchons have been drilled through 0.45mm.

Using a small block of wood of the correct thickness, the Lace Pins I use for the Stanchions are inserted and soldered in place.

 

Excess removed and cleaned up, it is ready for fixing on the signal............later.

 

Steve.