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Semaphore Signals - 4mm Scale (Mainly)


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Moving on..........

 

The second signal for Churminster is the Up Home. Number CH3G

This is a SR Rail Built left hand bracket with three dolls, carrying four arms.

The main doll reads to Platform 3.

The left hand doll, a smaller one, reads to the Goods Yard, to the left of the main line.

The right hand doll carries two arms, the upper full size arm reads to the Bay Platform 1.

The lower, small arm reads to the entry to the Shed / Yard.

 

First job was to build the main post from C&L bull-head Rail.

This was soldered together in pairs, which were drill for the spacers (.45mm Lace Pins).

 

The two pairs were then joined with temporary cross plates to make the basic post.

 

So far, nothing unusual, but followers of my topic will know I like very firm foundations for my signals.

To achieve that I first turned up a "plug" for the base of the post, which is a good fit between the four rails.

It is hollow to accommodate the fibre optics which will be installed later.

CH3G-04_renamed_28402.jpg.ac11d0c31bd1720690ed67344dc23186.jpg

 

A socket to take this plug was turned and fitted to the into signal's base-plate.

CH3G-05_renamed_29437.jpg.90fe7bcfa1089f482bf520b934cfd9e7.jpg

 

You can see here the four guide tubes for the operating wires, and fitted below the base-plate is the half-inch dia. brass Foundation Tube.

CH3G-06_renamed_34.jpg.3bba53944e5d3a182ee5ffbe610f8a73.jpg

 

This allows the bottom of the post to fit closely and be supported both inside and out.

CH3G-07_renamed_9448.jpg.a73db53d69a5f4200224a11c6e97beee.jpg

 

 

More soon about the rest of the construction.....

 

Steve.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Steve Hewitt
Photos out of sequence , spelling
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3 hours ago, Steve Hewitt said:

Moving on..........

 

The second signal for Churminster is the Up Home. Number CH3G

This is a SR Rail Built left hand bracket with three dolls, carrying four arms.

The main doll reads to Platform 3.

The left hand doll, a smaller one, reads to the Goods Yard, to the left of the main line.

The right hand doll carries two arms, the upper full size arm reads to the Bay Platform 1.

The lower, small arm reads to the entry to the Shed / Yard.

 

First job was to build the main post from C&L bull-head Rail.

This was soldered together in pairs, which were drill for the spacers (.45mm Lace Pins).

 

The two pairs were then joined with temporary cross plates to make the basic post.

 

So far, nothing unusual, but followers of my topic will know I like very firm foundations for my signals.

To achieve that I first turned up a "plug" for the base of the post, which is a good fit between the four rails.

It is hollow to accommodate the fibre optics which will be installed later.

CH3G-04_renamed_28402.jpg.ac11d0c31bd1720690ed67344dc23186.jpg

 

A socket to take this plug was turned and fitted to the into signal's base-plate.

CH3G-05_renamed_29437.jpg.90fe7bcfa1089f482bf520b934cfd9e7.jpg

 

You can see here the four guide tubes for the operating wires, and fitted below the base-plate is the half-inch dia. brass Foundation Tube.

CH3G-06_renamed_34.jpg.3bba53944e5d3a182ee5ffbe610f8a73.jpg

 

This allows the bottom of the post to fit closely and be supported both inside and out.

CH3G-07_renamed_9448.jpg.a73db53d69a5f4200224a11c6e97beee.jpg

 

 

More soon about the rest of the construction.....

 

Steve.

 

 

 

 

 

Proper engineering job that Steve!

JF

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On 12/01/2020 at 20:08, Steve Hewitt said:

 

 

More soon about the rest of the construction.....

 

Steve.

 

 

 

 

 

Well, there's not a lot to say.......

 

The rest of the structure followed my usual methods, using MSE, Gibson etc. etches, and Les Green 3D prints.

 

CH3G-08.jpg.fc9544f80a1661ccfee79b700c628f06.jpg

 

The pile of MDF blocks is to represent the height of the signal on the Railway above the baseboard.

It is on elevated ground.

 

 

CH3G-22.jpg.5a48f3b5ea1de8ae75cb3bbb668cca68.jpg

 

Getting all the operating linkages in was a bit of a squeeze.

 

CH3G-11.jpg.e2896dccb2305def646c6434c89f9b99.jpg

 

More soon, I hope.......

 

Steve.

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49 minutes ago, bude_branch said:

Steve,

 

Please could you tell me what make the LSWR Finials are?

Hi,

 

The LSWR finials are Brass castings from Alan Gibson.

3D printed versions are also available from Modelu.

I've got some, but not used them yet.

MSE also have a White Metal version, but they are quite delicate

 

Steve.

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1 hour ago, Steve Hewitt said:

Hi,

 

The LSWR finials are Brass castings from Alan Gibson.

3D printed versions are also available from Modelu.

I've got some, but not used them yet.

MSE also have a White Metal version, but they are quite delicate

 

Steve.

So are some 1:1 scale finials...

P1040937.JPG

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6 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

And of course if the short arm on a separate doll reads to a goods line it should have a ring on it in SR practice ;)

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for your comment. I wish I had your knowledge, or just a small part of it.

Never having worked on the Railway, I have to rely on books, photos and the wishes of clients when constructing the models.

 

In this case the bracket signal I have just completed was inspired by that at Waddon Marsh, as shown as Plate 103 on page 89 of my "Pryer".

Plate 88 on Page 75 also shows quite clearly White painted Weights on a two doll bracket.

 

Thanks one and all for your comments.

I learn something new most days.:huh:

Unfortunately it is often after I've committed my lack of knowledge to a completed model:(

 

Steve.

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The Waddon Marsh example has short arms, whereas the model appears to have small arms - ie narrower as well as shorter - not the same thing :-) Note also that both the short arms have 'reduced' aspects and may well have once had rings.

 

I think we discussed Plate 88 previously - almost certainly not white weights, but the same mid-grey as used on the spectacle castings in accordance with the SR paint scheme. 

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20 hours ago, Steve Hewitt said:

Hi,

 

The LSWR finials are Brass castings from Alan Gibson.

3D printed versions are also available from Modelu.

I've got some, but not used them yet.

MSE also have a White Metal version, but they are quite delicate

 

Steve.

 

Many thanks Steve, I'll give them a try.

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12 hours ago, Steve Hewitt said:

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for your comment. I wish I had your knowledge, or just a small part of it.

Never having worked on the Railway, I have to rely on books, photos and the wishes of clients when constructing the models.

 

In this case the bracket signal I have just completed was inspired by that at Waddon Marsh, as shown as Plate 103 on page 89 of my "Pryer".

Plate 88 on Page 75 also shows quite clearly White painted Weights on a two doll bracket.

 

Thanks one and all for your comments.

I learn something new most days.:huh:

Unfortunately it is often after I've committed my lack of knowledge to a completed model:(

 

Steve.

The difference is - as already mentioned by 'Railwest' that the Southern didn't use LMS/LNER style miniature arms but like the GWR used a shorter, less deep, standard arm (3ft) in such circumstances - hence the Waddon Marsh example.  The use of a 'goods ring' is illustrated on page 75 of Pryer's book - again a 3ft arm. (the Southern used ringed arms in a different way from the GWR, and the LNWR used them in a different way from both.

 

Subsidiary signals on the Southern were also not miniature arms but on 'standard' signals used the 3ft arm with the horizontal red & white banding.  As far as I can trace from photos (so not an ideal source) the Southern do not appear to have used Draw Ahead arms in the manner of the miniature arm you have placed below the running arm but stuck with Calling On arms in such situations (see page 32 of George Pryer's book.  As an aside although the Rule Book definition of Calling On signals changed in the 1930s (but changed again in 1950)  far as I can trace the SR General Appendix terms did not change ('Railwest' will probably be able to answer that conclusively).  

 

What all that means in modelling terms is that any subsidiary arm below an SR (Railway and Region)  will be a 3ft arm, painted in the red-white-red horizontal lines scheme and carrying either a letter 'C' or 'S' according to function.  An area where I am not sure is whether a large metal cutout 'W' was ever used instead of the arrangement for Warning Signals shown in the illustrations on page 32 ' 'Railwest' might be able to answer that for us?

 

As ever we're back to distinctive differences in the way the various pre-nationalisation Companies signalled  various movements and the way in which that carried on into their successor BR Regions.  A good way of describing it might be to compare it with a minefield for which very few definitive maps are available although firtunately despite several drawing offices being involved the Southern was pretty consistent in its standards.  I hope this post helps a bit as my intention here is to try to be informative without being critical. 

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What all that means in modelling terms is that any subsidiary arm below an SR (Railway and Region)  will be a 3ft arm, painted in the red-white-red horizontal lines scheme and carrying either a letter 'C' or 'S' according to function....

 

Unless, of course, you happened to be on the S&DJR (the one with the blue engines), where a right old mish-mash of styles and sizes appeared over the years.

 

>>>An area where I am not sure is whether a large metal cutout 'W' was ever used instead of the arrangement for Warning Signals shown in the illustrations on page 32 ' 'Railwest' might be able to answer that for us?

 

Fortunately I can :-) When the SR replaced the signal-box at Templecombe (Upper) in 1938 a Warning signal was added to the Up Branch Advanced Starting and Signal Instruction 23 of that year describes it exactly as that 'indicator' form.  A similar 'indicator' type of signal appeared at Midford in 1948 and there was one provided at Sturminster Newton in the 1950s, although by its location one would expect the latter to have displayed a 'S'  (sadly no further info is known).

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On 19/01/2020 at 09:04, RailWest said:

 but no doubt the OP will now produce photos to support them :-)

 

If by "the OP" you mean me, then you are being disingenuous and overly cynical; like Steve, I do not pretend to be an expert on all things Southern, especially where signalling is concerned, and I rely upon pictures and reference books to deduce what might be "right" for what is a fictitious but certainly Southern location. Of course, even looking at the same source, our deductions may differ in the absence of a definitive text!

 

12 hours ago, RailWest said:

I think we discussed Plate 88 previously - almost certainly not white weights, but the same mid-grey as used on the spectacle castings in accordance with the SR paint scheme. 

 

In the same spirit of wanting to get things right, where does one find the "SR paint scheme"? As The Stationmaster observes, this is a minefield, but I can at least confirm that the layout does not seek to represent any part of the S&DJR

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>>>If by "the OP" you mean me...

 

Not really, given that the thread was started by Steve, who also posted the photos of the signals in question. But if, as you say, you ".. rely upon pictures and reference books to deduce what might be 'right'...", then it seemed reasonable IMHO to presume that you had found a SR example of 'small' arms used in the configuration shown by Steve. My apologies if I was mistaken.

 

>>>where does one find the "SR paint scheme"? 

I'll try and find the relevant references to post here in due course - unless someone beats me to it :-)

 

[EDIT]

 

Variously:-

1. http://www.semgonline.com/proto/sthnpaint.html

2. HMRS Livery Register No 3: LSWR & Southern (signals were Section 7 in the original edition, but I do not have the revised edition)

3. "Southern Nouveau and the Lineside" Irwell Press 2017  page 372

 

Edited by RailWest
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  • 2 weeks later...

Just thinking about ground disc signals having now almost completed my semaphore project with Megapoints electronics and servo control which I am very happy with.  Is there a manufacturer that is thinking of producing the disc signals in 4mm scale that can be servo controlled?  Ive not seen any chat around that topic.  I have seen the LED "modern" ground signals that look very nice but are probably too modern for my 1960's- based layout.

 

dave

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Hello Dave,

 

Are you looking for "Ready to Run" ground signals?

I think you will be unlucky.

 

The style of ground signals used by the various Railway Companies and BR Regions varied quite a lot.

There are kits or at least components available from MSE and others.

These are capable of being made to operate by Servo Motor, if you take care.

If you tell me your BR region, I'll try to point you in the right direction.  :good:

 

There are quite a few examples scattered through this topic.

I also had a separate Topic on assembling a MSE kit for a GWR 16" signal and operated by a servo.

see:  

 

 

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On 31/01/2020 at 20:41, Steve Hewitt said:

 

There are quite a few examples scattered through this topic.

I also had a separate Topic on assembling a MSE kit for a GWR 16" signal and operated by a servo.

see:  

 

 

Thanks for this hint. I am following your thread for quite a time, I have some MSE ground signals to make and I am sure this will point me into the right direction!

Vecchio

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On ‎31‎/‎01‎/‎2020 at 20:41, Steve Hewitt said:

Hello Dave,

 

Are you looking for "Ready to Run" ground signals?

I think you will be unlucky.

 

The style of ground signals used by the various Railway Companies and BR Regions varied quite a lot.

There are kits or at least components available from MSE and others.

These are capable of being made to operate by Servo Motor, if you take care.

If you tell me your BR region, I'll try to point you in the right direction.  :good:

 

There are quite a few examples scattered through this topic.

I also had a separate Topic on assembling a MSE kit for a GWR 16" signal and operated by a servo.

see:  

 

 

Hi Steve, thanks for the response.  Mine would be those used on BR(S) region but I think they are fairly generic disc-type signals.  I have some non-working ground signals but think it would be a really great enhancement if I could replace them.  Thanks for the link- Ill have a look at it later.

 

dave

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7 hours ago, S&DWatty said:

Hi Steve, thanks for the response.  Mine would be those used on BR(S) region but I think they are fairly generic disc-type signals.  I have some non-working ground signals but think it would be a really great enhancement if I could replace them.  Thanks for the link- Ill have a look at it later.

 

dave

Hi Dave,

I think you'll find the BR(S) ground signals were fairly distinctive.

They were the "Westinghouse" product, with a "semi-circular"  disk and the spectacle vertically above the Disc Pivot.

I just happen to have a couple on my workbench at present:mellow:

 

2020-01-28_18_10_54.jpg.f55a2898b07e82e9c4f1e66dca333501.jpg

 

These are made from a 3D printed body, with etched parts from the MSE kit, and lighting by fibre optic.

 

RIMG1714.JPG.5fe2b0b0364df777489555c2e7ce7da5.JPG

 

Quite fiddly, but well worth the effort.

 

2020-01-28_18_09_51.jpg.6d4779a207b7aea10065419a3ab61c09.jpg

 

2020-01-28_18_10_04.jpg.f7a7ea156ee0302ff3ba62e258391f1d.jpg

 

If you want any further details, just ask.....

 

Steve.

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Hi Steve, just been admiring your outstanding work with all these signals. They truly are a work of art and absolutely beautiful! :D

 

I don't have time to read each post in detail so apologies if this has been answered already, but do you take commissions for other modellers/layouts? I'd love you to build mine!

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10 hours ago, Steve Hewitt said:

Hi Dave,

I think you'll find the BR(S) ground signals were fairly distinctive.

They were the "Westinghouse" product, with a "semi-circular"  disk and the spectacle vertically above the Disc Pivot.

I just happen to have a couple on my workbench at present:mellow:

 

2020-01-28_18_10_54.jpg.f55a2898b07e82e9c4f1e66dca333501.jpg

 

These are made from a 3D printed body, with etched parts from the MSE kit, and lighting by fibre optic.

 

RIMG1714.JPG.5fe2b0b0364df777489555c2e7ce7da5.JPG

 

Quite fiddly, but well worth the effort.

 

2020-01-28_18_09_51.jpg.6d4779a207b7aea10065419a3ab61c09.jpg

 

2020-01-28_18_10_04.jpg.f7a7ea156ee0302ff3ba62e258391f1d.jpg

 

If you want any further details, just ask.....

 

Steve.

Thanks Steve, that's amazing workmanship as always with your stuff.  These Westinghouse ground signals would be just the job for me I reckon.  Im wondering whether I could operate them with a wire-in-tube push pull system rather than buying another Megapoints board and servos.  I could light them using the fibre optic powered by a bulb off my lighting ringmain.  Id certainly be keen to find out more about availability, price etc.

 

cheers

 

dave

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On 04/02/2020 at 10:04, S&DWatty said:

Thanks Steve, that's amazing workmanship as always with your stuff.  These Westinghouse ground signals would be just the job for me I reckon.  Im wondering whether I could operate them with a wire-in-tube push pull system rather than buying another Megapoints board and servos.  I could light them using the fibre optic powered by a bulb off my lighting ringmain.  Id certainly be keen to find out more about availability, price etc.

 

cheers

 

dave

Hi Dave,

 

The Westinghouse ground signals are designed to be operated by a "Push/Pull"  wire from below the baseboard.

This is usually a servo motor, but no reason why a wire in tube system shouldn't work.

Just be aware, the 3D printed signal body is quite delicate, so the manual operation should incorporate something to prevent exerting too much Push or Pull:excl::o

 

The 3D prints are available from Les Green's shop on Shapeways - see:  https://www.shapeways.com/shops/railway-odds-and-ends?li=pb

The printed signal incorporates the holes for the Optical Fibre to pass through. It is made for 0.5mm (.020 in.) for fibres.

The fibre is obtainable from Circuitron -the makers of Tortoise point motors.

The etched moving parts - Disc, Lever, Blinder are from the MSE kit.

 

I hope this info. is helpful.

Good luck with building the signals.

Get in touch again if I can help in any way.

 

Steve.

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