Jump to content
 

Semaphore Signals - 4mm Scale (Mainly)


Recommended Posts

  • RMweb Gold

A little diversion to 12in to 1ft scale.

 

The East Lancs Rly introduced a new signal on 1st January.

It is a banner repeater on the bracket for the Platform 3 North End starter, which repeats the Advanced Starter that cannot be seen clearly through the tunnel.

Unusually, I believe, it is mechanically operated and is slotted with the Starter so both have to be clear for it to show clear.

As soon as the starter is returned to Danger, the banner repeater returns as well.

 

post-3984-0-11434700-1358699051.jpg

 

post-3984-0-17939300-1358699050.jpg

 

A bit of video to follow later.....

 

Steve.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Here's the video:

 

 

Usual problems with obscured views and jostling crowds.

You wait ages for the signal to be cleared then a Jinty comes by with its safety valves lifting!

Hopefully you can see the relevent bits among the confusion...

 

Steve.

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Here we are back in 4mm scale:

 

My next project is a substitute signal for "Holt".

This is a Home signal with a bracketed "Running Line to Loop" arm.

There's a good photo in "LNWR Signals" and drawings in Jack Nelson's book, so I hope to be able to get it right...

 

Starting as usual with a few components:

post-3984-0-45483800-1358861761.jpg

The two arms were assembled from MSE etched components, that tiny arm has four parts itself!

 

post-3984-0-41586800-1358861760.jpg

Two cast balance arms in their bearings; back blinders, the smaller one has a crank added; and the crank for the Loop arm.

 

post-3984-0-01560000-1358861758.jpg

The front and rear ladders with the etched LNWR style top extensions made for me by Les Green.

 

post-3984-0-66133900-1358861756.jpg

The bracket has been made from a modified Alan Gibson "small bracket" etch. At the outer end is the casting to support the lamp bracket. This is made from a short length of square tube with a N/S rod through it for location in the bracket and the lamp bracket.

Jack Nelson's book shows clearly how the Lamp Bracket incorporates the Arm Bearing and this is made from a length of 1/32in. brass tube.

All in all there are eight components soldered together in this sub-assembly.

 

post-3984-0-06737800-1358861759.jpg

This is the base plate for the signal with the turned foundation tube.

 

post-3984-0-09019900-1358861754.jpg

Soldered, using the butane torch.

 

post-3984-0-42822500-1358861752.jpg

With the guide tubes for the operating wires and the main location tube added as well.

post-3984-0-27542000-1358861753.jpg

 

Finally MSE castings for the Lamps and the Finial:

post-3984-0-75531700-1358861759.jpgpost-3984-0-26976500-1358861755.jpg

 

Assembly will follow shortly, I hope....

 

Steve.

 

 

  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • RMweb Gold

I think I find the assembly the most enjoyable part of building signals.

 

.............snipped............

 

The lower ends of the opeating wires are terminated in 1/32in brass tube, running in the vertical guide tubes mentioned previously:

attachicon.gifS1580005.JPG

 

More soon, when it'll be time to connect up the servos and test everything out.

 

Steve.

Here is another of my little video clips of the completed signal being tested on the bench prior to shipping:

 

 

Steve.

  • Like 11
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

 

Here we are back in 4mm scale:

..............snipped...............

 

Assembly will follow shortly, I hope....

 

Steve.

Main post assembled with balance arm bearings, and planted in the base plate.

I've fixed the bracket to the post, and placed the arms to check it looks OK:

post-3984-0-61314200-1359838740.jpg

 

Steve.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
  • RMweb Gold

The next signal will be for the Carlisle project.

Another in the Bog Junction area, I believe.

I've been sent this fairly hazy photo of the signal required:

post-3984-0-80119500-1361390632.jpg

Just the Home signal at the front of the shot for now, but there is a Distant just about visible above the rear of the loco!

That will have to come later.

 

I spent quite some time in the club library looking at photos taken in the Carlisle area for some clearer detail of what's required.

Not much luck, but there was an odd shot of lattice post signals on the old NE goods lines to Newcastle which might help.

I'm particularlry looking for details such as Lampmans staging, or was there just a ladder hoop?

The only clear shot of a similar signal showed just a hoop, so thats what it will be.

One taller signal seems to be without a ladder at all, so this probably had a Windlass? (Or a Sky Hook).

 

 

First job was the post:

post-3984-0-90793500-1361391308.jpg

This is from an Alan Gibson etch, assembled as advised in the packaging.

The etching is quite fine and it makes up to quite a delicate model.

 

The arm is also from a Gibson etch, spectacle plate and blade being separate, with five rivets (short lengths of wire) to hold them together:

post-3984-0-96045500-1361391296.jpg

The shaft is from a lace pin.

 

Because the post is so delicate, I mounted the arm bearing and the lamp bracket on a plate made from scrap etch:

post-3984-0-48265800-1361391302.jpg

This plate can then be soldered over a larger area of lattice than would be possible for the two items separately.

 

MSE castings for the finial:

post-3984-0-35408900-1361391304.jpg

 

The lamp:

post-3984-0-58127800-1361391303.jpg

This was drilled through 0.5mm for the fibre optic lighting which will be added much later.

 

The weight arm and its bearing are also castings from MSE:
post-3984-0-11103500-1361391305.jpg

Brass this time, with supplied weight in white metal.

 

I bought some 100deg solder from C&L at the Watford Finescale show last weekend, and this was the first time I've tried it out.

It allows soldering white metal to brass without needing to tin the brass first.

 

The foundation tube for the lattice was turned from a length of 8mm dia brass bar:

post-3984-0-59773000-1361391306.jpg

 

And the base plate cut from Nickel Silver sheet, marked out and drilled:

post-3984-0-11423300-1361391306.jpg

 

An MSE etched ladder was built up with .4mm N/S wire on the stiles:

post-3984-0-58202700-1361391305.jpg

 

So there we are, a collection of most of the components needed:

post-3984-0-67217300-1361391309.jpg

 

More soon,

Steve.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

This plate can then be soldered over a larger area of lattice than would be possible for the two items separately.

I'll try and take a picture of the fittings for a friend's lattice signal over the weekend. The bearing, downrod and lamp bracket are mounted on a plate.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

I'll try and take a picture of the fittings for a friend's lattice signal over the weekend. The bearing, downrod and lamp bracket are mounted on a plate.

That will be really helpful.

Never having worked on the full size railway, I often find it very difficult to get good prototype information.

 

Steve.

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Assembly starts with the signal's foundations.

 

The Foundation Tube is soldered into the Base Plate to ensure a good vertical location for the signal's post:

post-3984-0-73853100-1361466533.jpg

The tube in location, with a small piece of solder adjacent, and plenty of liquid flux.

 

post-3984-0-83722600-1361466532.jpg

The blowlamp makes short work of the joint.

 

The 1/16th in. dia tube to guide the operating wire is added next:

post-3984-0-32518200-1361466532.jpg

With a brace from scrap etch to keep it secure.

 

Next is the main location tube which will locate the signal in the baseboard and ensure good alignment with the servo motors which will be prepared later:

post-3984-0-81871700-1361466531.jpg

The blow torch has made this joint, without loosening the previous joints:

post-3984-0-32262500-1361466531.jpg

The heat is intense and very localised making for a very rapid process.

 

And here is the main post in-situ:

post-3984-0-81708700-1361466530.jpg

 

To be continued,

Steve.

 

 

 

 

  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

For a big lump of metal it took some finding..

 

attachicon.gifDSC03186.jpg

 

attachicon.gifDSC03185.jpg

 

This lattice is a work in progress..

 

attachicon.gifDSC03189.jpg

 

attachicon.gifDSC03190.jpg

That's really useful, and confirms that my idea was in line with prototype practice.

Many thanks for taking the trouble to get those photos.

Steve.

 

p.s. Whilst you were making the post on RMweb, I was parking the car outside Clitheroe station (to go to the local amateur theatre), when a long blast on a Chime Whistle was followed by Union of South Africa going very quickly at the head of the Cumbrian Mountain Express.

Running a few minutes late (I subsequently read on a website) she shot through the station en-route for Whalley and the climb up to Whilpshire.

What a sight, short cut-off and a recent round of coal darkening the emmissions from the chimney, which was not really getting clear of the top of the boiler.

All over in a very few seconds, but what a sight while it lasted.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

That's really useful, and confirms that my idea was in line with prototype practice.

Many thanks for taking the trouble to get those photos.

Steve.

 

 

 

It turned out to be quite an exercise in the end. I unwittingly mentioned during the week i had some thing's to fix and gained an assistant for the day. I can't take a four year old to the railway where it's stored without starting a loco and then finding the coach and so on and so forth. It turned into a major exercise! Jolly good fun was had by all though. I was rather chuffed she identified a defective dry cell battery with a meter too with a little guidance and we managed to get round Biggleswade model railway show too.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold


 

All the "static" components have been added:

attachicon.gifS1690001.JPG

 

A good clean and polish, followed by a bath in the Ultrasonic cleaner and its off to the paint shop.

 

Steve.

Whilst the brush painting is drying (black and red bits), I got on with the frame on which the signal will be finally assembled, tested and transported.

It is designed to represent a piece of the layout's baseboard and to support the signal and its operating mechanism within a plastic box in which it can be safely transported.

 

The main piece is 1/2in thick plywood (as the baseboard), drilled to take the 1/2in dia. location tube:

post-3984-0-56264900-1361748219.jpg

post-3984-0-69486600-1361748217.jpg

 

The bracket to hold the servo motor was made from thinner plywood:

post-3984-0-23986000-1361748215.jpg

 

This ensures alignment with the signal's operating wire, and also carries the LED which is the source for the signal lamp:

post-3984-0-12652500-1361748214.jpg

 

Once the paints had dried, the final assembly of the signal with its operating wires was completed:

 

post-3984-0-90271000-1361748874.jpg

 

post-3984-0-47458900-1361749045.jpg

 

post-3984-0-48086200-1361749047.jpg

 

More soon,

Steve.

 

  • Like 8
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Continuing with the working bits:

 

The servo is mounted below the signal whose operating wire can be seen here:

post-3984-0-07652800-1361824809.jpg

 

The gap between the bottom of the operating wire (0.4mm N/S soldered inside a 1/32in brass tube which runs in the 1/16th guide tube mentioned previously), is to be bridged by this piece of 1/16in tube:

post-3984-0-82275200-1361824809.jpg

The hole in the side of the tube is to facilitate soldering when the position has been adjusted.

 

This model will use an Embedded Controls unit to control the servo:

post-3984-0-61416800-1361824719.jpg

 

To ensure everything is set up within the operating limits of the servo, follow these steps:

  • Connect the Controller to its power supply, an operating switch and the servo.
  • Set the Controller to "mid-position" on both adjusters. This will set the servo to its "mid-position" which should allow us to adjust the signal properly when they are connected.
  • If necessary, re-set the "Horn" of the servo so it can be connected to the operating wire in a "mid-position".
  • Slide the connecting piece over the operating wire and insert it into the servo Horn.
  • Carefully set the signal arm to its "mid-position".
    post-3984-0-37216100-1361824807.jpg post-3984-0-38622300-1361824808.jpg
  • With everything now in "Mid-position" solder the connection between the Operating wire and the Joining tube.
    post-3984-0-29719800-1361824720.jpg
  • Adjust the Servo Controller so that the signal moves between its Danger and Clear postions.
    post-3984-0-75274500-1361826328.jpg

    post-3984-0-84438100-1361826329.jpg

 

Job Done.   Much easier to do than write about!

 

Next the lighting.

The LED is glued into the end of a 1/8in I.D. tube. This is glued to the side of the servo mounting bracket:

post-3984-0-14542300-1361824716.jpg

 

The end of the fibre optic cable is glued into a "plug" made up of successive concentric tubes until the O.D. is 1/8in. This plugs into the LED mounting and can be removed when the signal has to be removed:

post-3984-0-73832000-1361824714.jpg

 

The effect of the light can be seen in the two previous shots.

The "Back Light" is also represented by the light leaking from the Fibre where it enters the rear of the lamp:

post-3984-0-68589400-1361824712.jpg

 

Finally, a short video clip:

 

Next please.... :dontknow: 

 

Steve.

Edited by SteveAtBax
  • Like 11
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...
  • RMweb Gold

The next signal is one for Woodford Halse.

All the previous signals I've built for Woodford Halse have been shown in the topic by the same name:

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/25030-woodford-halse-signals/

 

Rather than fragmenting my postings over several topics, I intend to keep all my signal building posts concentrated in this one topic from now on.

 

Here goes then:

The signal is based on this photo:

post-3984-0-79875300-1363970142.jpg

but it is to be built without the distant arm on the shorter doll, and the dolls are to be slightly shorter as well.

 

I'm building this one almost exclusively from MSE parts.

The main stem and the bracket were assembled first:

post-3984-0-21018600-1363970493.jpg

 

I decided next to assemble all the various component parts:

post-3984-0-94565000-1363970579.jpg

There was one completed arm left over from the last batch I made for Woodford Halse, so here it is with an un-painted one put together for this signal.

 

Since I'll be using cast dolls, the lamp bracket and arm bearing need to be attached to a small brass plate first, to ensure strength when attached to the doll:

post-3984-0-03179000-1363970490.jpg

Two of these needed of course.

 

I've never used etched "wooden staging" before, but the fret provided a suitable item with fold up trimmers:

post-3984-0-17865600-1363970491.jpg

post-3984-0-56780200-1363970491.jpg

 

This needed fretting out for the second doll, and the handrails adding:

post-3984-0-69599000-1363970489.jpg

 

The three ladders have been beefed up with N/S wire down the stiles:

post-3984-0-09532800-1363970489.jpg

 

Here are the other moving parts:

post-3984-0-40872800-1363970579.jpg

 

The cast dolls were trimmed to length and had their other bits added:

post-3984-0-45176700-1363970580.jpg

 

I made sockets from square brass tube for the bottom of each doll in the bracket:

post-3984-0-16875100-1363970492.jpg

 

The bracket assembly was mounted on a base-plate.

This in turn had its guide tubes for the operating wires installed, and the whole fixed onto a 5/8in dia foundation tube:

post-3984-0-54453200-1363970490.jpg

By now the plating at the base of the main stem has been added, together with the bearing from the balance arms.

 

Putting it all together, we have:

post-3984-0-93390800-1363970577.jpgpost-3984-0-54721600-1363970578.jpg

 

Cleaning, polishing, degreasing, painting etc. etc. to come......

Steve.

 

 

  • Like 10
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

Just read all 6 pages  so far posted 

 

A/ I'm jealous of your workshop (no lather /blowgun  or really heavy metal working kit

 

B/ ..........................................

 

 

Ok a question

 

Where would I find a decent drawing with dimensions of how to make generic LMS signals - in wood as well as tube 

 

Got a simple reason I want to make a representation of the Up platform starter signal from Chesterfield Midland ) shows which I mean I would have loved to have been able to have this when it was decommissioned - we got the signal box signs but they chainsawed this up before anyone had the chance to say stop 

So I'm looking for dimensioned drawings 

 

And I'm going to keep on reading 

Link to post
Share on other sites

  • RMweb Gold

Just read all 6 pages  so far posted 

 

A/ I'm jealous of your workshop (no lather /blowgun  or really heavy metal working kit

 

B/ ..........................................

 

 

Ok a question

 

Where would I find a decent drawing with dimensions of how to make generic LMS signals - in wood as well as tube 

 

Got a simple reason I want to make a representation of the Up platform starter signal from Chesterfield Midland ) shows which I mean I would have loved to have been able to have this when it was decommissioned - we got the signal box signs but they chainsawed this up before anyone had the chance to say stop 

So I'm looking for dimensioned drawings 

 

And I'm going to keep on reading 

The bible for LMS signals is "A Pictorial History of LMS Signals" by Graham Warburton.

Very rare as an original, but fairly recently a facsimilie copy has been printed, so you should find one quite easily.

By referring to the dimensioned drawings in that book, you can eastablish a few "rules of thumb" which will enable you to make good scale drawings from suitable photos.

 

You then get as many photos as possible of the signal you want to model.

By scaling the standard components, such as the length of signal arms or counting ladder rungs etc. you should be able to work it out.

 

Make a drawing at the scale size you wish to model and off you go.

 

Most of the "standard" components you will need are available from Model Signal Engineering or Alan Gibson in 4mm scale or MSE and Scale Signal Supply in 7mm scale.

 

Good luck, and let us all know how you get on.

 

Steve.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...