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Apparently, Klear can be removed using an ammonia solution, see this thread, but I suspect a small quantity like this could be softened with hot water. Might be easier than risking melting or solidifying everything with the iron.

 

Nick

Edited by buffalo
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Ta Nick. The bottle says ammonia, but it's not something I fancy using despite being a bit tentative about putting the iron back on the workings. I think I'm going to end up taking both the targets off if I go to remove one of them, where they are next to each other, along with much of the paint. More thinking time required.

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After looking at this carefully I'm reasonably sure I'm going on the resoldering route. The pictures I have match the drawing (although the latter might be based on the article in the pictures) and suggest that to be correct I have to rotate the operating quadrant relative to the drum. The only downside I see is that, being brass, everything will get hot quite quickly and there is a risk of soldering something together that I really don't want to. This is the view from below, which hopefully reveals more fully the operating gubbins that has not been so clear in the previous pictures.

 

post-8031-0-62694600-1346583402_thumb.jpg

 

You will also see the connector for the battery has been attached. I may well swap this for a smaller connector yet, but this one was available and is convenient for the time being.

 

Here are some before pictures that should illustrate the problem:

 

post-8031-0-02701000-1346583372_thumb.jpg

 

post-8031-0-86480000-1346583385_thumb.jpg

 

After pictures to follow, success pending...

Edited by richbrummitt
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I'm pretty sure many of you expected success? I stuck the body down onto the bench with blu-tac and held the drum in the correct orientation with self closing tweezers. Then with the soldering iron up warming up hooked a rod through the hole in the operating quadrant and applied the hot tip to the joint whilst pulling the quadrant to the desired location 90° away. I've lit the beast up for these pictures but I've had difficulty capturing how it really looks in the flesh, so to speak.

 

post-8031-0-10430700-1346796849_thumb.jpg

 

post-8031-0-96663100-1346796856_thumb.jpg

(on, danger)

 

post-8031-0-59684500-1346796864_thumb.jpg

(off)

 

post-8031-0-20093300-1346796872_thumb.jpg

(rear)

 

Those with the desk lamp on too,

 

post-8031-0-02877100-1346796880_thumb.jpg

(rear 3/4)

 

post-8031-0-56682600-1346796887_thumb.jpg

(front 3/4)

 

and these with just the (not great) room lighting.

 

Next job will be to fix the lamp top (lid), unless I am to try some amber/yellow LEDs? I'm really not sure. The other thing I'm not sure I'm happy with is how not very round the green target is. Sadly the punch is not a great quality one and subsequent attempts have also resulted in scraggy edges and slightly interesting shapes. I don't suppose it will show to much in the wider context of a layout.

Edited by richbrummitt
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Richard,

 

Can't remember what you've used for the green target, but when ever I've wanted something small, round and thin, I've punched it out with a suitable section of bar on eithe a piece of lead or stiff thick card (like a beer mat) - Although I always ensure that I've emptied the glass of beer first in fear of knocking it over ;)

 

Ian

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Can't remember what you've used for the green target, but when ever I've wanted something small, round and thin, I've punched it out with a suitable section of bar on eithe a piece of lead or stiff thick card (like a beer mat)

 

See post #42. I used a craft punch like this but it does not give clean edges when used on the film. I'll have another attempt or two before I resign myself to accepting the current result. Sharpening the punch might be one option, but it's a, the wife's and she might object; and b, pretty well hardened so needs a diamond tool or oil stone to make any progress and has to be remain circular (not so easy?).

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See post #42. I used a craft punch like this but it does not give clean edges when used on the film. I'll have another attempt or two before I resign myself to accepting the current result. Sharpening the punch might be one option, but it's a, the wife's and she might object; and b, pretty well hardened so needs a diamond tool or oil stone to make any progress and has to be remain circular (not so easy?).

 

Dont risk mucking it up Richard - I see the 'Ebay' item is 'currently unavailable'!

LOL

 

Ian

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The lamp has got it's hat on :sungum: hip hip hip hooray :locomotive:

 

post-8031-0-35807600-1347042113_thumb.jpg

 

post-8031-0-33999900-1347042123_thumb.jpg

 

I attached it with a little Klear carefully applied. Must ensure this does not become my favourite adhesive. :nono:

 

There is a little white marking in one of the grooves that I didn't notice before. I think this is residue from the blackening that remained/appeared after rinsing that was not cleaned well enough. The camera is harsh! I'll have a go at removing it.

 

Next job is building the combined cranks and rodding for the switch and point disc. The layout is backwards from that at Didcot, I think. :mail:

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It never ceases to amaze me what miniature marvels you 2FS lot come up with! That's seriously impressive stuff 8) 8) 8)

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I'd always intended to create a little working display for this item before installing it on the layout at an appropriate stage in that construction.

 

Fitting the thing into a piece of wood did not go too well as it came apart in my hands! I did have to persuade it into the hole but thought I was managing to be gentle. I temporarily misplaced the lamp top on the floor. I say temporarily because, thankfully, I found it quite quickly. However I didn't realise I had knocked this part off until the red face had also come loose and warranted further inspection and placing into safe keeping.

 

That wasn't the end of my woes, as the centre tube with the LEDs on came detached (obviously poor soldering or rough handling :dontknow:). On trying to re-fix it something got hot and moved and the LEDs came detached. (Lesson not learned: use low melt solder sometimes!) This confused me at first because only one was working and then none at all and I thought they had gone wrong and something was short circuit but I realised that by prodding about one, or the other, or both could be lit and then I calculated that the only possibility was a poor connection. Over the last few days I have rebuilt most of the little assembly and tonight the lamp top was fitted back on.

 

Looking at the earlier pictures the red face looked to be a little large so I took the opportunity to reduce the size a little. Now rebuilt but awaiting some paint where I scraped the red off it is fitted in the beginnings of a little display.

 

post-8031-0-83944100-1347570569_thumb.jpg

 

post-8031-0-70108300-1347570575_thumb.jpg

 

Another fortunate coincidence of the rebuilding is that the light seen through the lenses is much less than it was and that pleases me. :danced:

 

Now I must consider the rodding arrangement. You probably noticed the track is only placed loosely. I will endeavour to knock up a catch point to be representative just beyond the point disc. If you were on an engine this would be the view of the signal. From pictures it would appear that the rodding exited the signal box a little behind and to your right, straight across under the tracks and appears between the siding you are stood on and the main line (also not visible) on your right. It would pass along and connect to the switch beyond the point disc, via an angle crank. So how might the point disc be connected? According to the drawings and pictures the operating rod for the point disc is from in front in the view above requiring a pull to the point disc and a push to the switch to change to the 'off' position. Maybe an angle crank combined with a T crank would have the desired outputs if they were ever used in combination how I am thinking. Ideas welcomed...

Edited by richbrummitt
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Normally these type of signals seem to have been driven directly off the end of the front stretcher bar so were directly in concert with its movement. As yours has to be placed a little way in rear of the stretcher (because of the platform) I would presume (dangerous, but ...) that two equal sided 'L' shape cranks would be used to transfer the drive from the end of the stretcher bar to the disc and the right combination of these would readily convert push to pull or vice versa as required.

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Apologies for the time lapse. I put this to one side for a short while to have a think about this.

 

This is what I was considering regarding the T and L:

 

post-8031-0-58370300-1348059302.jpg

 

I'm not sure that it looks right.

 

If an L crank was used with two holes in then this would be a possible:

 

post-8031-0-39515400-1348059303.jpg

 

I'm really not convinced the compensator would appear here. The movement could be reversed by changing the orientation of the second L crank. The run from the signal box is possibly not long enough to require any compensators at all.

 

If it accepted to incorporate the point disc into the run, joining the stretcher by use of the hole in the other end of the operating bar then I arrive at this:

 

post-8031-0-36778700-1348059301.jpg

 

It's simple and has a feeling of being 'right' about it, whether it is or not.

 

I've got a little while to think about it while I make the TOU to go underneath, but need to plan the extended timber locations for the crank positions before laying the track.

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Richard,

 

My knowledge of these point discs is somewhat sketchy - I have only seen images of them where they seem to be directly connected to the switch bar. It is my opinion that the signal box would be directly connected to the point, and the signal would be connected to the switch bar to indicate the switch direction. I could be completely wrong, but I do not think that the box would connect through the disc to the point as you have drawn it. I would have expected the box-to-point rodding connection to route past the disc, and a separate rod come back from the point to the disc if that makes sense.

 

Ian

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Richard the point stretcher bar should drive the signal - that way it ensures that the signal properly detects the position of the switch rails. In this situation I would very much doubt if a compensator would be used as to some extent the 'pull' and 'push' can be equalised by means of the cranks in the drive from the stretcher bar to the signal.

But having said all that what suits you and looks 'passable' could be ok ads there can't be too many folk around who understand how these things were worked; until at an exhibition an 'expert' comes along and says 'oi mate ....' - at which juncture you ask him (or her) to explain exactly how it was done at this particular spot in the period you are modelling ;)

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there can't be too many folk around who understand how these things were worked; until at an exhibition an 'expert' comes along and says 'oi mate ....' - at which juncture you ask him (or her) to explain exactly how it was done at this particular spot in the period you are modelling ;)

 

I hope to pre-empt this. Maybe there will be someone at the BGS exhibition in Newbury on Saturday that knows, or knows someone that knows. I think I'm going to go for either the third picture above or a rod coming backwards from the crank arm that connects to the front stretcher. Right now I'm cursing because I've painted my passenger cattle boxes the wrong colour: apparently they were grey until renumbered as coaching stock as late as 1927!

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I hope to pre-empt this. Maybe there will be someone at the BGS exhibition in Newbury on Saturday that knows, or knows someone that knows. I think I'm going to go for either the third picture above or a rod coming backwards from the crank arm that connects to the front stretcher. Right now I'm cursing because I've painted my passenger cattle boxes the wrong colour: apparently they were grey until renumbered as coaching stock as late as 1927!

 

I'm not completely sure but I think that Siphons / Fish Trucks were similarly originally grey (or perhaps they were red!) :O Although when I finally get round to building the one I had off you I will probably finish it in brown and be damned!!

 

Ian

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I thought that by 1921 the stock might have caught up with the change in 1915 but Atkins et al. says differently. I've painted them black and was just looking to find out whether the ends needed to be left black (it would seem not) and then went searching fro numbers to see that they were still wagons and not carriages. Grrr.

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Siphons were always classed as passenger stock, albeit 'NPCS', and I think there is no evidence for them appearing in goods grey. The WWI transfer of some goods stock (fruits, primarily) to the passenger/NPCS lists was purely a Paddington accountancy dodge, but there were subsequent transfers - they didn't all happen at once. Whilst Aktins et al gives a 1927 date of transfer for the W7, no transfer date is given for the W4s.

Edited by Miss Prism
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My knowledge of these point discs is somewhat sketchy - I have only seen images of them where they seem to be directly connected to the switch bar. It is my opinion that the signal box would be directly connected to the point, and the signal would be connected to the switch bar to indicate the switch direction. I could be completely wrong, but I do not think that the box would connect through the disc to the point as you have drawn it. I would have expected the box-to-point rodding connection to route past the disc, and a separate rod come back from the point to the disc if that makes sense.

 

I've spent a little time this morning looking through Great Western Branch Line Modelling Part 1 and A Pictoral Record of Great Western Signalling for examples of what I think are this type of ground signal to see how they are connected. Certainly pictures on p39, p65, and p72 in the former appear to show examples at Cadeleigh, Newent, and Cirencester with what appears to be a connection of the stretcher (or an extension of it) connecting directly to it beyond the switch. In all cases the point disc is on the opposite side of the line to the point rodding run from the 'box. There is an example on p19 of the latter where the point disc is on the same side of the line as the rodding run, albeit separated by another running line, at Brynamman. Here the rodding seems to be connected through the point disc on it's way to the stretcher bar.

 

Richard the point stretcher bar should drive the signal - that way it ensures that the signal properly detects the position of the switch rails. In this situation I would very much doubt if a compensator would be used as to some extent the 'pull' and 'push' can be equalised by means of the cranks in the drive from the stretcher bar to the signal.

 

I partly agree because there isn't really any detection. I think (my opinion, of course) the only consideration was thwasn't was connected to the stretcher bar. I am sure you are right about the compensator: the imagination runs wild sometimes!

 

But having said all that what suits you and looks 'passable' could be ok ads there can't be too many folk around who understand how these things were worked; until at an exhibition an 'expert' comes along and says 'oi mate ....' - at which juncture you ask him (or her) to explain exactly how it was done at this particular spot in the period you are modelling https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/emoticons/default_wink3.gif

 

With the discovery of the picture in Vaughan I am going with option 3. This because the disc is on the same side of the line as the rodding run from the signal box, as with Brynamman, adding the cranks because the signal is set apart from the stretcher, as best as we can tell from photographs of Littlemore.

 

Now to lay a little track and finish this display piece off.

Edited by richbrummitt

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Further progress has been made with the appearance of point timbering, a 2/3 sprue of easitrac, about 160mm of rail, copious filing and various solvents.

 

post-8031-0-65276400-1348524872_thumb.jpg

 

The switch blades don't shut yet because the slide chairs need paring away on the inside once the solvent is fully hardened. The TOU is still to go in but things are more complete underneath, although they are not particularly neat where I resorted to hot glue to fix the battery holder. The second button is a push to make switch to complete the circuit and light the LEDs up.

 

Where I have a spare platform face (it's the one off the layout that I subsequently realised that I had made too short) I'm toying with the idea of adding it to give the full context of the point disc on the wrong side of the line, although it's one more thing to, paint, fix, &c. and there is still quite a bit to do to finish the TOU so that it moves with the signal before painting and ballasting (not necessarily in that order). That might be enough to get done in less than one week!?

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Last night after getting back from the ice rink I made quite a lot of progress underneath the little display: all the wiring is in place with the battery holder permanently fixed and the TOU was added, along with it's operating crank. I plan to use a battery for the lights even once it is transplanted to the layout because I haven't room for another power supply and the 3v batteries are small, easy to get a hold of, and should last ages. The TOU is a variation on a principle described in the 2mm magazine with telescoping plastruct sections: the dropper wires from the switch blades slide into some micro-bore tubing, soldered to a PCB sleeper using a jig to ensure the spacing and vertical alignment, that is fixed to one of the sections. The other section is permanently fixed to the underside of the board. The operating crank is one intended for R/C models. Whilst I was making the dropper wires I figured why not make the angle crank move, so I did!

 

More visibly I sliced the insides from the slide chairs to allow the switch blades to close correctly. They now require some careful soldering to fix onto the dropper wires and the operating wire to the crank from the slide switch remains to be added before the switch will work. I also fabricated some rod stools from N gauge rail using a piercing saw to cut it like a comb half way through, to create a slot for the rod, and then all the way through. These have now been fixed in place with cyano.

 

I have begun painting the platform face, although I am still unsure whether it is the right thing to do to add it?

 

Tonight I aim to finish off the work to get the switch rails moving and start the painting. Not long to go...

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Yesterday I didn't get the switch rails moving due to a number of false starts, but the platform face got attached. After a lot of juggling of paint, glue, &c. setting/drying times and some awkward soldering I've got to this stage:

 

post-8031-0-19338700-1348781557_thumb.jpg

 

The switch rails worked and the detail has been added and painted. I still have to pick a colour for the chairs (any ideas?) and finish the platform surface. At the moment the ballast is an odd colour because it is drying. Then I will find out if the switch rails still work... Until then here's a close up:

 

post-8031-0-95125900-1348781564_thumb.jpg

 

Please pardon the slightly wonky looking rodding. I've been harsh on myself here so that you can see the rodding, crank, switch tie bars, fishplates, so the photo has ended up many times full size. I'm feeling reasonably happy with how the appearance is on what has come to serve as a test piece for track painting and ballasting, as well as it's purpose as a base to display the point disc. I will use something other than this ballast for the yard area on the layout because I want something smaller, like the textured paint used nearest the observer.

 

I expect to be finished tomorrow. I have to be finished tomorrow: personally there is little more time before the 1st October to spend on this.

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So this is the end: I've 'finished'. This weekend places other demands on my time so I cannot do any more. The only thing that I would really like to have done is work out why the switch blades don't move as much as they did, or should do. They do still move a bit, but not the millimetre that they had before ballasting.

 

The platform is finished and various washes, powders, &c. blend the colours together.

 

post-8031-0-24070400-1348871116_thumb.jpg

 

Some low light shots to show it lit up :sungum:

 

post-8031-0-10172500-1348871123_thumb.jpg

 

and with the lever pulled giving the road :locomotive:

 

post-8031-0-58325200-1348871130_thumb.jpg

 

Thank you all for your support, comments and input. It has been valuable and is much appreciated.

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