The human side of the railway...

[DIRTY DIESEL]

On 03/03/2021 at 12:31, Rugd1022 said:

Can't remember the photographer's name with this one, when I find it I'll edit the post accordingly....

 

 

 

21/2/81 40086 Cardiff/Holyhead Ruggex. 
My source can name four of the the assembled motley crew, but I will keep it confidential due to ‘Crimes to fashion..’

 

oh by the way Wales beat Ireland 9-8..

 

Stu

[iands]

1 hour ago, bude_branch said:

Four from the Great Eastern lines out of Liverpool Street ...

 

Somewhere in the Lea Valley

 

Enfield Town - Attaching an additional unit for the evening peak

 

Enfield Town - Waiting departure

 

Liverpool Street - Loading the evening papers

 

 

 

 

 

The first photo is quite possibly at Hackney Downs, based on the signal plate and the partly visible plate on the OLE stanchion. Nice to see one of the old STC "clockwork" SPTs being used.

[bude_branch]

4 minutes ago, iands said:

The first photo is quite possibly at Hackney Downs, based on the signal plate and the partly visible plate on the OLE stanchion. Nice to see one of the old STC "clockwork" SPTs being used.

Thanks for that, I'm afraid I lost my notes years ago so any additional information is most welcome.

[iands]

16 minutes ago, bude_branch said:

Thanks for that, I'm afraid I lost my notes years ago so any additional information is most welcome.

Assuming Hackney Downs is correct, it would be prior to the 1960 resignalling of the area after which the "new" signal box prefix became "HD" rather than just "H", if that helps any.

[uax6]

I've got one of those SPTs that I've got to mount on my searchlight post, although my searchlight is a WBSCo one, not a SGE one like I think that one is.... (although it did come from the WARM project)

 

Andy G

[iands]

2 minutes ago, uax6 said:

I've got one of those SPTs that I've got to mount on my searchlight post, although my searchlight is a WBSCo one, not a SGE one like I think that one is.... (although it did come from the WARM project)

 

Andy G

I have a couple of the more "modern" push-button electric motor type selective SPTs, though they themselves are now obsolete on the network.

[uax6]

2 minutes ago, iands said:

I have a couple of the more "modern" push-button electric motor type selective SPTs, though they themselves are now obsolete on the network.

Nice.

I'm going to re-configure the dial mech on mine so that it can dial an extension on my Strowger exchange at home, kitchen prehaps? ;-)

 

Ag

[Oldddudders]

41 minutes ago, iands said:

Assuming Hackney Downs is correct, it would be prior to the 1960 resignalling of the area after which the "new" signal box prefix became "HD" rather than just "H", if that helps any.

Umm. It can't be the same day as some of the other pics, then - one has double arrow symbols. I also feel the driver's garb is a bit modern for pre-1960, and the car in the road looks a little too sleek? And if Nigel took it he wasn't very old pre-1960!

[iands]

36 minutes ago, uax6 said:

Nice.

I'm going to re-configure the dial mech on mine so that it can dial an extension on my Strowger exchange at home, kitchen prehaps? ;-)

 

Ag

Like it - a new take on a two digit PAX!

[iands]

21 minutes ago, Oldddudders said:

Umm. It can't be the same day as some of the other pics, then - one has double arrow symbols. I also feel the driver's garb is a bit modern for pre-1960, and the car in the road looks a little too sleek? And if Nigel took it he wasn't very old pre-1960!

Thanks Ian. Quite probably not Hackney Downs then.

[DY444]

2 hours ago, iands said:

Assuming Hackney Downs is correct, it would be prior to the 1960 resignalling of the area after which the "new" signal box prefix became "HD" rather than just "H", if that helps any.

 

1 hour ago, iands said:

Thanks Ian. Quite probably not Hackney Downs then.

 

I'm pretty sure it's the other way round with some Hackney area signals having HD prefixes prior to the Chenford electrification resignalling (or as part of stage works during its implementation) and the final 1960 Hackney Downs scheme signals having H prefixes. 

 

The new Hackney box opened in May 1960 and trial electric running in the area didn't start until the autumn and the full public service not until November 1960.  Given the shirt sleeved driver I would suggest that the picture is more likely to be spring or summer and thus 1961 at the earliest.

 

Edit.  The location is clearly the Dn Suburban on the London side of Hackney Downs which is where Hackney Downs number 1 signal was to be found.  However I've just looked at the 1960 signalling notice and it shows that signal as HD1!  It appears therefore it was numbered HD1 at commissioning and changed to H1 sometime later.

Edited April 11, 2021 by DY444

[iands]

14 minutes ago, DY444 said:

 

 

I'm pretty sure it's the other way round with some Hackney area signals having HD prefixes prior to the Chenford electrification resignalling (or as part of stage works during its implementation) and the final 1960 Hackney Downs scheme signals having H prefixes. 

 

The new Hackney box opened in May 1960 and trial electric running in the area didn't start until the autumn and the full public service not until November 1960.  Given the shirt sleeved driver I would suggest that the picture is more likely to be spring or summer and thus 1961 at the earliest.

Ah, thanks for that DY444. got my H and HD prefixes the wrong way round. If it is Hackney Downs then the train could be stood on the "Up Cambridge" heading in towards Liverpool St.

[DY444]

4 minutes ago, iands said:

Ah, thanks for that DY444. got my H and HD prefixes the wrong way round. If it is Hackney Downs then the train could be stood on the "Up Cambridge" heading in towards Liverpool St.

 

However see my edit.  Signalling notice shows it as HD!

 

It's on the Dn Suburban I think.

Edited April 11, 2021 by DY444

[iands]

10 minutes ago, DY444 said:

 

However see my edit.  Signalling notice shows it as HD!

 

It's on the Dn Suburban I think.

Thanks again DY444. I tried to download the 1960 resignalling plan from the SRS site but annoyingly could only download the Notice. My suggestion of the train being on the Up Cambridge was by looking at the curvature of the track in the photo and trying to match it against Google maps - a clear case of 2+2 = 5 on my part!

[iands]

49 minutes ago, bude_branch said:

I never thought one SPT could generate so much interest.

Hi Nigel,

A trait of mine I'm afraid. Whilst others enthuse about different coaching stock, engines etc., etc. (and why not if that is what provides most interest, enjoyment etc.), for my part it happens to be s&T type things - yes a capital "T" as I had 42 years in railway telecoms, but only 4 years on the signalling side (but still remain very interested in signalling aspects).

[Joseph_Pestell]

"Memoires d'un enfant du rail" is a book by Henri Vincenot about his childhood in Dijon where all his family were involved with the railway, five generations. A really good read if you can find a copy (I got mine in a house clearance recently) and your French is up to scratch.

 

He paints a remarkable picture of railwaymen having virtually no contact with people of any other profession. He was most unusual in getting married to an "etranger".

 

Were English railwaymen quite so isolated from others in the wider community?

[lmsforever]

The last pic of the signal does certainly look like Hackney Downs a busy station the line to Chingford swung to the right as it left the station. From there it passed Clapton and over the marshes always of interest for wildlife and people doing things they should not!

[Mike Storey]

4 hours ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

"Memoires d'un enfant du rail" is a book by Henri Vincenot about his childhood in Dijon where all his family were involved with the railway, five generations. A really good read if you can find a copy (I got mine in a house clearance recently) and your French is up to scratch.

 

He paints a remarkable picture of railwaymen having virtually no contact with people of any other profession. He was most unusual in getting married to an "etranger".

 

Were English railwaymen quite so isolated from others in the wider community?

 

In a strange way, yes. In the 1970's and 80's particularly, in the UK, you did not mention that you worked for the railways in any non-railway social setting. It was part defensive, in that derision might ensue, or some idiot would grab you to berate the state of the nation, or ask about aspects of which you had no idea, but expect an answer. (My mother-in-law still expected me to know the times of trains, and the cost, off by heart, between Ramsgate and Canterbury, when I had long ago left for the Eastern, or even when I worked for the 2012 Olympics!)

 

But the other reason was that you could not "pull" if a girl thought you worked in a dead end job...... Fortunately, the current Mrs Storey also worked for a part of the railways, so she knew what she was getting.

 

But as for either not mixing with the great unwashed, or deliberately avoiding them, no, I do not believe it was like France at all. There, for a start, if you worked for SNCF, you were seen as akin to a doctor - I know, I nearly married a girl, from near Pau, in SW France; she did not love me (as I found out) but her family certainly thought I was a great catch! I found, in France, that there were so many railway peeps in particular locations, that there was no need to venture outside that group. In the UK, that privilege had ceased many moons earlier, given the job reductions that had occurred since the 1950's.

[PhilJ W]

4 hours ago, lmsforever said:

The last pic of the signal does certainly look like Hackney Downs a busy station the line to Chingford swung to the right as it left the station. From there it passed Clapton and over the marshes always of interest for wildlife and people doing things they should not!

I concur. In fact the train is not that far past London Fields station.

[Bon Accord]

4 hours ago, Mike Storey said:

 

In a strange way, yes. In the 1970's and 80's particularly, in the UK, you did not mention that you worked for the railways in any non-railway social setting. It was part defensive, in that derision might ensue, or some idiot would grab you to berate the state of the nation, or ask about aspects of which you had no idea, but expect an answer. (My mother-in-law still expected me to know the times of trains, and the cost, off by heart, between Ramsgate and Canterbury, when I had long ago left for the Eastern, or even when I worked for the 2012 Olympics!)

 

But the other reason was that you could not "pull" if a girl thought you worked in a dead end job...... Fortunately, the current Mrs Storey also worked for a part of the railways, so she knew what she was getting.

 

But as for either not mixing with the great unwashed, or deliberately avoiding them, no, I do not believe it was like France at all. There, for a start, if you worked for SNCF, you were seen as akin to a doctor - I know, I nearly married a girl, from near Pau, in SW France; she did not love me (as I found out) but her family certainly thought I was a great catch! I found, in France, that there were so many railway peeps in particular locations, that there was no need to venture outside that group. In the UK, that privilege had ceased many moons earlier, given the job reductions that had occurred since the 1950's.

 

It wasn't just outsiders who took a dim view of the railway.

As a youngster (and already a committed enthusiast) when thinking about possible careers I was warned off BR in no uncertain terms by my maternal Grandfather because he thought there was no future in it, which perhaps was no great surprise considering he'd had to transfer no less than 4 times to keep his job in the face of closures.

He'd started in 1925 with the LNER and finally retired in '74.

[uax6]

18 hours ago, iands said:

Like it - a new take on a two digit PAX!

Well it'll need 3 digits (its a unit Auto exchange 12 for the 1930's, what most villages would have had) so I'll have to pick the number to be dialed carefully, as there isn't many choices of numbers for two inter-digital pauses...

 

Andy G

[iands]

44 minutes ago, uax6 said:

Well it'll need 3 digits (its a unit Auto exchange 12 for the 1930's, what most villages would have had) so I'll have to pick the number to be dialed carefully, as there isn't many choices of numbers for two inter-digital pauses...

 

Andy G

Hi Andy,

As the inter-digital pause cam on the SPTs are "3 pauses long", you could try getting a spare and fitting it as a second cam to give you the 3 digits. Can I ask, is it a 25 digit pulse wheel on the SPT or the older 11 digit one? 

[uax6]

3 minutes ago, iands said:

Hi Andy,

As the inter-digital pause cam on the SPTs are "3 pauses long", you could try getting a spare and fitting it as a second cam to give you the 3 digits. Can I ask, is it a 25 digit pulse wheel on the SPT or the older 11 digit one? 

Hi Ian,

 

I couldn't tell you what size wheel it is, I haven't open the beast up yet (its been lying at the foot of my searchlight for about two years now). I need to find out how to mount it to the post first!

 

Ag

[iands]

Apologies to all for taking this thread "off-topic". I've given myself a slap on the wrist. 

[Oldddudders]

1 hour ago, iands said:

Apologies to all for taking this thread "off-topic". I've given myself a slap on the wrist. 

No need in my view.. Telecomms/telegraphy have been a key part of railway ops since Victorian times. They may be a minority interest but are legit.